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  #1  
Old 05-31-2011, 7:16 PM
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blazeaglory blazeaglory is offline
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Default Hammer Pump Trench Gun

I want it so bad but alas, its illegal in CA



http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/91409-55.html
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2011, 7:37 PM
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How is that illegal in CA? It's pump action isn't it? As I follow the flow chart it's fine, CTD is just stupid about CA law and probably thinks the bayonet lug isn't allowed. Federal AW ban included bayonet lugs, CA doesn't care so far as I can tell.

Buds has it and will more than likely ship to CA http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/91409
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  #3  
Old 05-31-2011, 7:40 PM
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no its a slam pump type

just squeeze the trigger and pump away
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  #4  
Old 05-31-2011, 7:44 PM
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damn it seems that buds would send it...i thought the flow chart said "slam type" shotguns are illegal?

either way THANK YOU!!

EDIT: buds WILL send it but if it is a violation of CA law...

"Many of the Guns we sell are not legal for purchase in California. You have selected California as either your billing or shipping address. Any firearms purchased from us which violate California law will be canceled and payment refunded. If your order includes any guns please click HERE to check it(s) legality before placing your order."
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Last edited by blazeaglory; 05-31-2011 at 7:49 PM..
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Old 05-31-2011, 8:09 PM
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Well, I don't see anything in the flow chart about it, but my guess is that since it's not something most shotguns do it hasn't been specifically outlawed, and is therefore ok in CA. The only thing I can thing of is maybe a multiple shot per trigger pull issue, but you do still have to pump the thing. It's not like the slidefire AR stock or any other multi-burst device. Personally I think it's fine, but I could well be wrong.
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  #6  
Old 05-31-2011, 8:17 PM
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dude i hope your right. that would be awesome because i really want that shotgun

and for the life of me i cant seem to find the damn flow charts, can you send a link please? ive seriously been searching for a while. sometimes i find it quick, sometimes i dont.
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Old 05-31-2011, 8:21 PM
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http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf

They're right at the top of the page, under AW & OLL Guides.
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Old 05-31-2011, 8:22 PM
smokinjohn smokinjohn is offline
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Default trench gun

Hello,

That is a copy (Chinese) of an 1897 Winchester. They will slam fire as will Ithaca Model 37's and some others. They are not illegal. The original Winchesters and copies are used by many in SASS matches and bought and sold in California. The Norinco branded ones have been disallowed from import for some time by the BATFE, but they are not illegal to possess.

John
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  #9  
Old 05-31-2011, 8:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash357 View Post
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf

They're right at the top of the page, under AW & OLL Guides.
ahh. thnx man
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  #10  
Old 05-31-2011, 8:26 PM
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ahh i interpreted #2 wrong, YOUR RIGHT...WOOHOO! happy days i found my shotgun!
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  #11  
Old 05-31-2011, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinjohn View Post
Hello,

That is a copy (Chinese) of an 1897 Winchester. They will slam fire as will Ithaca Model 37's and some others. They are not illegal. The original Winchesters and copies are used by many in SASS matches and bought and sold in California. The Norinco branded ones have been disallowed from import for some time by the BATFE, but they are not illegal to possess.

John
damnit its chinese? nothing against china but i want an American made trench gun. where does it say made in china? Interstate Arms Norinco is chinese?

EDIT: never mind i figured it out. oh well, at least the stock and corn cob pump are American, steel is steel i guess. although i would prefer to promote "buy American", sometimes it is unavoidable. the gun gets great reviews anyways
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Last edited by blazeaglory; 05-31-2011 at 9:35 PM..
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  #12  
Old 05-31-2011, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeaglory View Post
damnit its chinese? nothing against china but i want an American made trench gun. where does it say made in china? Interstate Arms Norinco is chinese?
Yes, Norinco is Chinese. They are mostly known for making the SKS and AK's. The Model 93, Model 87 and both Model 37's are built to a pretty high standard. Because they are popular in Cowboy Action shooting. IAC sent a well known 1897 gunsmith to China to help fix problems with the early guns. With the fixes and the use of modern machining, they are arguably better then the real thing.

A few years ago all of the IAC/Norinco shotguns started drying up because Norinco moved their factory to a new facility, so says IAC. This made the 93, 87 and 97's difficult to find. In the past few years they have started showing up on the market again. At least the Model 97 and 97T has. Not sure what happened to the M93 and M87 though.

Good luck finding an American made 1897 Trench. I haven't looked at them in a while but the ones I saw a few years ago were over $3000. Not to mention 50 to 100 years old. You can buy a 1897 with a long barrel for a couple hundred then have it cut down to 20" to make a Riot or add a heat shield and bayonet lug and make a Trench.

Oh and the Norinco's use American Walnut.

http://www.iacshotguns.com/99t.html
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  #13  
Old 05-31-2011, 10:16 PM
Charles M. Failure Charles M. Failure is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash357 View Post
How is that illegal in CA? It's pump action isn't it? As I follow the flow chart it's fine, CTD is just stupid about CA law and probably thinks the bayonet lug isn't allowed. Federal AW ban included bayonet lugs, CA doesn't care so far as I can tell.

Buds has it and will more than likely ship to CA http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/91409
My 590 has an "accessory lug"!
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  #14  
Old 05-31-2011, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffy View Post
Yes, Norinco is Chinese. They are mostly known for making the SKS and AK's. The Model 93, Model 87 and both Model 37's are built to a pretty high standard. Because they are popular in Cowboy Action shooting. IAC sent a well known 1897 gunsmith to China to help fix problems with the early guns. With the fixes and the use of modern machining, they are arguably better then the real thing.

A few years ago all of the IAC/Norinco shotguns started drying up because Norinco moved their factory to a new facility, so says IAC. This made the 93, 87 and 97's difficult to find. In the past few years they have started showing up on the market again. At least the Model 97 and 97T has. Not sure what happened to the M93 and M87 though.

Good luck finding an American made 1897 Trench. I haven't looked at them in a while but the ones I saw a few years ago were over $3000. Not to mention 50 to 100 years old. You can buy a 1897 with a long barrel for a couple hundred then have it cut down to 20" to make a Riot or add a heat shield and bayonet lug and make a Trench.

Oh and the Norinco's use American Walnut.

http://www.iacshotguns.com/99t.html
who am i kidding, i was sold from the beginning...

i heard the new ones are better for shooting than the old ones due to better metallurgy techniques, i mean, would you really want to fire the **** out or an original? hehe i wouldnt (maybe just a few pumps)

thnx man
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  #15  
Old 05-31-2011, 10:41 PM
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That's a good price from CTD. Auction Arms has them listed at $429.00.
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  #16  
Old 06-01-2011, 7:50 AM
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Not sure if I'd buy from CND though. Bud's has it for a little less too. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/91409
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2011, 8:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeaglory View Post
no its a slam pump type

just squeeze the trigger and pump away


The Colt SAA handgun is the same way. Hold the trigger and fan the hammer.
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Old 06-01-2011, 9:01 AM
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Just love mine




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Originally Posted by ar15barrels
Unscrew the lid. There is a foil seal there.
Pull the seal off and screw the lid back on.
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  #19  
Old 06-01-2011, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeaglory View Post
would you really want to fire the **** out or an original?
Yup. Many of us fire the **** out of original 97s on a weekly basis. Tough little buggers. Granted, it's not slugs or magnums, but they work just dandy...
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Old 06-01-2011, 2:16 PM
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I love my original 97, shots like a beast.
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  #21  
Old 06-01-2011, 3:00 PM
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I like my 97 norinco (non-trench) version. I would recommend buying one if you like them. I bought one after I saw "no country for old men". I would buy mine again in a heart beat.

The only thing you need to watch out for is that it has sharp edges and it cuts bad, lol. And I wouldn't suggest shooting buck shot threw it either. I had the extractor blow right out the side of it when using 00 buckshot. But other than that it is a great gun.

If the whole Chicom thing bugs you then get a Remington or a Mossberg. "made in the USA"
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  #22  
Old 06-02-2011, 3:26 PM
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I have a 1926 Winchester Model 12 that was the successor to the hammer pump. It was someone's grandfather's duck gun, complete with a Cutt's Compensator external choke. I had the gunsmith cut the compensator off and trim the barrel down to 20". Except for the sling swivels, it's the same as the trench gun Model 12.

My Model 12 will do slam fires, but I don't see the need for it. It was designed to fire from the hip and sweep a trench clean (hence the name). I've read that the Germans saved a special treatment for any captured shotgunner. Unless you're planning on doing something similar, it's a waste of ammunition. You can't hold it on aim while you're slamming the rounds out.

Before you buy the hammer pump, check one out in person. When you rack the slide back, the top of the action comes back over the grip, just like a saddle gun. In fact, Winchester copied the action for the Model 97 from their 30-30 rifles. Anyway, there was a lot of cuts on the backs of the hands of the operators from the slide coming back before they figured out how to be more careful.

I've heard good and bad about the Norinco guns. The quality seems to have improved lately. You pays your money and takes your choice.
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  #23  
Old 06-03-2011, 10:14 AM
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From what I've read, a lot of people who went with the Norinco version just paid a lil more from a gunsmith to have the action worked on (this service seems to vary from $200-400). You can find plenty of cut down original 1897s on Gunbroker, I would not recommend purchasing one to cut down yourself, it's kinda heretical lol!

If you're interested in an original Winchester 1897, then PM me and I can give you a laundry list of things to look for as I've pretty much spent the last 6 months in search of "the one" and combed the interweb with a fine toothed comb (while wading through a lot of bull***** of course). These are stout shotguns that can easily last another 100 years given they're taken care of and all just like any other C&R firearm out there.
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