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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 05-24-2011, 12:24 AM
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Default Peruta: Opening Appellate Brief Filed (Carry)

Late the evening of May 23, Michel & Associates filed their opening brief in the Peruta Carry Case from San Deigo. This is the clone of Sykes/Richards that NRA/CRPA stepped in to assist.

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Old 05-24-2011, 12:31 AM
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To quote one of our greatest presidents, "There you go again."
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Last edited by Paladin; 05-26-2011 at 3:02 PM.. Reason: brain fart
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  #3  
Old 05-24-2011, 12:57 AM
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Lots of action this last week.
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Old 05-24-2011, 1:06 AM
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Oh ya!!!
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  #5  
Old 05-24-2011, 4:48 AM
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What a week! Awesome!
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Old 05-24-2011, 5:35 AM
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Wow, the lawyers have been busy this week......
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Old 05-24-2011, 6:21 AM
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1) Any of our "Right People" willing to give odds that we'll win this at the 9th?

2) When will the oral arguments be (roughly)?

3) When will the decision be (roughly)?
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Old 05-24-2011, 6:30 AM
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Once again, I see Constitutional law, logic & reason put forth by our side.Here's hoping it matters.


I did like footnote 27 (page 52 of the Brief) where it is pointed out that the District Court ruling, if upheld by the 9th, endangers 626.9 CPC. Here's hoping that happens anyway.


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Old 05-24-2011, 6:51 AM
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Who's paying for this appeal (i.e., paying the lawyers on our side, court costs, other associated costs): The NRA? CRPA? CGF? SAF?
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  #10  
Old 05-24-2011, 8:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Who's paying for this appeal (i.e., paying the lawyers on our side, court costs, other associated costs): The NRA? CRPA? CGF? SAF?
After the oral arguments in San Diego, a few of us got together with Ed (plaintiff) for a little UOC dinner at one of San Diego's fine eating establishments, and he told us that he had asked Chuck Michel to quote him a price for seeing this case all the way through. He didn't tell us how much it was, but said his wife about died of cardiac infarction when she heard the amount. None the less Ed told us he paid it. So the legal fees, at least for Michel, have supposedly already been paid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
1) Any of our "Right People" willing to give odds that we'll win this at the 9th?

2) When will the oral arguments be (roughly)?

3) When will the decision be (roughly)?
I am not one of the "right people", but I seriously doubt we are expecting a win at the 9th in this case, if nothing else because of the recent decision they rendered in Sykes. At this point I think it's SCOTUS or bust...

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Originally Posted by Mulay El Raisuli View Post
I did like footnote 27 (page 52 of the Brief) where it is pointed out that the District Court ruling, if upheld by the 9th, endangers 626.9 CPC. Here's hoping that happens anyway.
The 9th isn't going to care about that. They would be the ones to make that decision anyway, at least until it got to SCOTUS. I'll give you three guesses how they would decide that issue.
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the question here is not whether the carrying of arms is a good idea—the question is
whether carrying arms is constitutionally protected. Objective standards and due process—not
Defendants’ philosophy or personal beliefs about the value of this activity—must carry the day-Alan Gura

Last edited by J.D.Allen; 05-24-2011 at 9:03 AM..
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Old 05-24-2011, 9:08 AM
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Started to read the brief... I guess they have to argue the equal protection angle because that was what they argued at district? Not the best IMHO.

Edit: never mind, I just saw the 2A claim
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the question here is not whether the carrying of arms is a good idea—the question is
whether carrying arms is constitutionally protected. Objective standards and due process—not
Defendants’ philosophy or personal beliefs about the value of this activity—must carry the day-Alan Gura

Last edited by J.D.Allen; 05-24-2011 at 9:10 AM..
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Old 05-24-2011, 9:20 AM
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Wait a minute...

"And, Plaintiff
Cleary provided a detailed declaration about his application process with County,
in which he explains he was denied a CCW but was subsequently issued one,
without having to reapply, after joining the HDSA and meeting personally with
then Undersheriff Gore."

Which plaintiff is this talking about???
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the question here is not whether the carrying of arms is a good idea—the question is
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Defendants’ philosophy or personal beliefs about the value of this activity—must carry the day-Alan Gura
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  #13  
Old 05-24-2011, 9:23 AM
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Ok, what happened? Did all of our AWSOME lawyers start doing meth, or did they just switch to a stronger brand of coffee?

This will go down as the week that the Brady's lost the war. Mark my words.
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Old 05-24-2011, 9:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.D.Allen View Post
After the oral arguments in San Diego, a few of us got together with Ed (plaintiff) for a little UOC dinner at one of San Diego's fine eating establishments, and he told us that he had asked Chuck Michel to quote him a price for seeing this case all the way through. He didn't tell us how much it was, but said his wife about died of cardiac infarction when she heard the amount. None the less Ed told us he paid it. So the legal fees, at least for Michel, have supposedly already been paid.
I must say, I had a negative opinion of Ed when he first popped up with a "lone wolf" type case, and now my opinion has reversed. He's a fighter and a team player.
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Old 05-24-2011, 9:39 AM
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After reading this brief it is apparent just how blatantly the lower courts are ruling in contravention of SCOTUS' intent in Heller and McDonald. They CLEARLY meant to establish AND BEAR as a fundamental right, and all these guys in black dresses continue to dick around with it. I imagine that the Heller 5 are not amused at this point. And I think we may be pleasantly surprised by what happens with the case from MD. I think that SCOTUS is chomping at the bit for a smackdown...
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the question here is not whether the carrying of arms is a good idea—the question is
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Defendants’ philosophy or personal beliefs about the value of this activity—must carry the day-Alan Gura
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  #16  
Old 05-24-2011, 9:59 AM
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Reading this filing as well as the AW filing, it seems to me the tone of the filings is stronger and could convey a position of strength.
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:00 AM
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"Even if limiting carry to unconcealed and unloaded firearms were a valid regulation of that right under due process, creating classifications of people who are allowed to exercise the right to self-defense by carrying a loaded firearm (i.e., to exercise a superior Case: 10-56971 05/23/2011 Page: 68 of 143 ID: 7761939 DktEntry: 13 58 form of the right) while others are limited to UOC (an inferior form of exercising the right), still violates the rules of equal protection. Cf. Kramer, at 628-29 (once the franchise is granted to the electorate, lines may not be drawn which are inconsistent with the Equal Protection)."



I've always felt that this arguement would hold a huge amount of potential later in the game. I hope that proves true
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:22 AM
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I think there is some real hope here. Remember that the 9th circuit incorporated the 2A (Nordyke III 2009) before the Supremes did in McDonald (2010).

Come on 9th circuit, and please do the right thing!

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Old 05-24-2011, 12:05 PM
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Dont forget that the government has no duty to protect anyone (Cal. Govt' Code Sec. 815, and 846); Police do not have to come to your aid (Cal. Gov't Code Sec. 820 and 846; Warren v. U.S. [1981] 444 A.2d 1) The government does not even need to provide police, prisons, or fire protection to begin with (Cal. Gov't Code Sec. 845).
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Old 05-24-2011, 2:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.D.Allen View Post
Wait a minute...

"And, Plaintiff
Cleary provided a detailed declaration about his application process with County,
in which he explains he was denied a CCW but was subsequently issued one,
without having to reapply, after joining the HDSA and meeting personally with
then Undersheriff Gore."

Which plaintiff is this talking about???

That would have been Mark Cleary.
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Old 05-24-2011, 2:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uyoga View Post
That would have been Mark Cleary.
Courageous of him to continue in his affiliation with the law suit even after he got his CCW
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the question here is not whether the carrying of arms is a good idea—the question is
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Defendants’ philosophy or personal beliefs about the value of this activity—must carry the day-Alan Gura
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Old 05-24-2011, 2:45 PM
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Default FOR THE RECORD

First and foremost

If you don't hear it directly from me or read something that I have personally posted, please question the accuracy of the information.

In the beginning of my civil case, I was accused of NOT being a team player, and have worked very hard to be part of the NRA/CRPA team that offered their assistance, loyalty and substantial financial support.

I'm sure that the information regarding my paying Attorney C.D. Michel was made with every good intention, but it was inaccurate.

I never claimed to have paid a dime to anyone except Attorney Paul Neuharth who brought the original federal civil action against the County of San Diego.

And yes, my wife did choke at the initial amount I paid Attorney Neuharth but she and I believe it was money well spent.

Since accepting the offer made by C.D. Michel, I have been extremely satisfied with everything that has been done in my behalf and will not offer any negative comments regarding this or any other case being litigated regarding Second Amendment rights.

I'd also like to thank everyone who supports civil litigation to settle the issues now being addressed in the courts.

The entire cost of litigation beyond what I paid Attorney Neuharth including the current appeal to the nineth circuit has been paid for by the NRA, NRAILA, CRPA Foundation and their joint legal action project.

More information on the funding may be found at www.crpafoundation.org

Thank you for your support, and I will now take my fingers off the keyboard and go back to enjoying my life outside of courtrooms.

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Old 05-24-2011, 3:18 PM
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Mr. Peruta:

I believe you to be a stand-up guy and a tenacious son-of-a-gun. Go get 'em!
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Old 05-24-2011, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OleCuss View Post
Mr. Peruta:

I believe you to be a stand-up guy and a tenacious son-of-a-gun. Go get 'em!
Ditto.
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Old 05-24-2011, 4:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Peruta View Post
First and foremost

If you don't hear it directly from me or read something that I have personally posted, please question the accuracy of the information.
...
I agree to the extent that if it also comes from the OP of this thread, Wildhawker, B. Wiese, Oaklander, Lex Arma, the_quark, and a number of others who are actively working at the top of this effort (for CGF/N), I will take those folks VERY SERIOUSLY. I've met every one of these fine folks, and when they post, all should read and pay heed for certain. I won't doubt for even a split millisecond that they will NOT steer anyone here wrong, and I'm not just saying that because they are at the top of the effort. The hours that these people (and I, sort of) spend on the research that keeps us up for hours without much sleep is spent for a reason, and that is because we all take this effort as seriously, if not more seriously than the one inevitable thing in life no person can avoid...

Having said that much, I'm also VERY THANKFUL to you because your case has striking similarities to the industry I belong to, and is nearest to my heart, the Trucking Industry.

Truck Drivers MUST ALWAYS be able to defend themselves wherever they go, but can't, especially here in our state of CA, and your action, and a win could very affect truckers for certain in a very good way, so THANKS!

Erik.
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Old 05-24-2011, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Peruta View Post
First and foremost

If you don't hear it directly from me or read something that I have personally posted, please question the accuracy of the information.

In the beginning of my civil case, I was accused of NOT being a team player, and have worked very hard to be part of the NRA/CRPA team that offered their assistance, loyalty and substantial financial support.

I'm sure that the information regarding my paying Attorney C.D. Michel was made with every good intention, but it was inaccurate.

I never claimed to have paid a dime to anyone except Attorney Paul Neuharth who brought the original federal civil action against the County of San Diego.

And yes, my wife did choke at the initial amount I paid Attorney Neuharth but she and I believe it was money well spent.

Since accepting the offer made by C.D. Michel, I have been extremely satisfied with everything that has been done in my behalf and will not offer any negative comments regarding this or any other case being litigated regarding Second Amendment rights.

I'd also like to thank everyone who supports civil litigation to settle the issues now being addressed in the courts.

The entire cost of litigation beyond what I paid Attorney Neuharth including the current appeal to the nineth circuit has been paid for by the NRA, NRAILA, CRPA Foundation and their joint legal action project.

More information on the funding may be found at www.crpafoundation.org

Thank you for your support, and I will now take my fingers off the keyboard and go back to enjoying my life outside of courtrooms.
I stand corrected and apologize. I did hear this statement directly from you, but apparently misunderstood you, or "mis-remembered" who you said you had paid. I may have just assumed it was Michel you had paid because he was the one arguing your case that day. I did not intend to misquote you.
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the question here is not whether the carrying of arms is a good idea—the question is
whether carrying arms is constitutionally protected. Objective standards and due process—not
Defendants’ philosophy or personal beliefs about the value of this activity—must carry the day-Alan Gura
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Old 05-24-2011, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Peruta View Post
First and foremost
Thank-you.
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Old 05-24-2011, 4:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Window_Seat View Post
I agree to the extent that if it also comes from the OP of this thread, Wildhawker, B. Wiese, Oaklander, Lex Arma, the_quark, and a number of others who are actively working at the top of this effort (for CGF/N), I will take those folks VERY SERIOUSLY. I've met every one of these fine folks, and when they post, all should read and pay heed for certain. I won't doubt for even a split millisecond that they will NOT steer anyone here wrong, and I'm not just saying that because they are at the top of the effort. The hours that these people (and I, sort of) spend on the research that keeps us up for hours without much sleep is spent for a reason, and that is because we all take this effort as seriously, if not more seriously than the one inevitable thing in life no person can avoid...

Having said that much, I'm also VERY THANKFUL to you because your case has striking similarities to the industry I belong to, and is nearest to my heart, the Trucking Industry.

Truck Drivers MUST ALWAYS be able to defend themselves wherever they go, but can't, especially here in our state of CA, and your action, and a win could very affect truckers for certain in a very good way, so THANKS!

Erik.
Somewhere, in the back of my little mind, I hear a voice saying that a person in an occupation such as yours, will one day bring change to certain national gun laws...

But first, like Gen Washington, we must cross the (Potomac) River before us, first.
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  #29  
Old 05-24-2011, 5:07 PM
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To J.D. Allen,
No offense taken and I understand completely how you could have misunderstood the facts regarding who I paid and what I paid for.

I am also aware of how small inaccurate facts can lead people in the wrong direction.

I am currently in CT for the summer with family and hope all goes well with the issues being addressed on the left coast.

Keep up the good fights.
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Old 05-24-2011, 6:08 PM
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I'm still slugging through this ONE HUNDRED FOURTY THREE page read!!

But it's looking great so far.

Yesterday was a good day for the second amendment. I'm REALLY starting to feel like we're finally making a difference now.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
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Old 05-24-2011, 6:11 PM
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What impact would a win in Palmer have on this case?

Seems the judge in Palmer is stalling on a ruling.
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  #32  
Old 05-24-2011, 6:27 PM
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I heard that around next week the Law Enforcement Training Association will be filing an Amicus Brief basically saying that having an unloaded gun in a defensive situation is stupid and will get you killed and is not recommended and puts the public at more risk or something like that. Basically they will say that unloaded guns that can readily be loaded do not satisfy the second amendment and are not safe.
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I want Blood for Oil. Heck I want Blood for Oil over hand wringing sentiment!
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  #33  
Old 05-24-2011, 6:33 PM
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I'm still slugging through this ONE HUNDRED FOURTY THREE page read!!

But it's looking great so far.

Yesterday was a good day for the second amendment. I'm REALLY starting to feel like we're finally making a difference now.
I like your positive attitude... but I feel so beat up at times when I think about it... that my heart is waiting for a win before I can say the same thing.
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Old 05-24-2011, 6:41 PM
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I heard that around next week the Law Enforcement Training Association will be filing an Amicus Brief basically saying that having an unloaded gun in a defensive situation is stupid and will get you killed and is not recommended and puts the public at more risk or something like that. Basically they will say that unloaded guns that can readily be loaded do not satisfy the second amendment and are not safe.
Awesome. Now if only victim-disarming CLEOs were forced to admit the same.
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Old 05-24-2011, 7:29 PM
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I heard that around next week the Law Enforcement Training Association will be filing an Amicus Brief basically saying that having an unloaded gun in a defensive situation is stupid and will get you killed and is not recommended and puts the public at more risk or something like that. Basically they will say that unloaded guns that can readily be loaded do not satisfy the second amendment and are not safe.
Where did you get this information? (not doubting you, just curious.)
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Old 05-24-2011, 8:27 PM
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In the beginning of my civil case, I was accused of NOT being a team player, and have worked very hard to be part of the NRA/CRPA team that offered their assistance, loyalty and substantial financial support.
And we all remain very pleased that you accepted assistance.

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Old 05-24-2011, 8:36 PM
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Where did you get this information? (not doubting you, just curious.)
Chuck Michel made the statement on Cam and Company. At around 7:00

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I want Blood for Oil. Heck I want Blood for Oil over hand wringing sentiment!
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:24 PM
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Chuck Michel made the statement on Cam and Company. At around 7:00
Awesome, that's about as solid as a source gets.
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Old 05-24-2011, 11:47 PM
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lol awesome video
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Old 05-25-2011, 12:14 AM
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Just read the entirety of the opening brief. This is some truly awesome stuff. Looks like win to me (maybe even in the 9th Circuit!)....

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