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Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

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  #1  
Old 04-23-2011, 10:44 AM
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Default 22lr not lethal? *warning, Bloody pictures*

Alright so some may think a 22lr isn't lethal enough for defense, I think it is.

Here is a 176lbs pig. The ammo was golden bullet Remington. The bullet shot from 1(3 feet) yard. Yes, that is close but it's lethal.

It entered about 6" of pure bone. It shattered about 3" radius of bone from enterance to where te bullet stop. The cavity of the brain shattered into at least 7 pieces.

The lesson here isn't that a 9mm+ can kill better then 22lr, but shot placement is KEY to stopping a threat. Hope you guys like beacon!

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Old 04-23-2011, 11:11 AM
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What was the penetration overall? What angle did the shot enter? I'm not able to follow from the picture. Hollow point or solid?

.22 is quite lethal, but it's wound channel is very narrow in most cases. I'd rather shoot .22 than throw rocks, but having a 9mm/.40/.45 is a definate step up in priming reliability and wound channel dimensions. Keeping in mind, the importance of shot placement comes first in any "stopping power" argument, penetration second, with wound channel dimensions coming in third. Distantly third for handguns, much closer for rifles.

Good shot, enjoy the bacon!

Last edited by Tythagoras; 04-23-2011 at 11:14 AM.. Reason: prepositional disagreement, spelling
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:14 AM
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This thread will not end well. Prepare for a tsunami of internet tough guys and internet "ballistics experts".

Popcorn ready..................
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:16 AM
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I was saving this for a break on someones stopping power rant but
The most used cartridge in assassinations its a .22!!!
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:47 AM
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Haha, sorry the center bottom of the pig is the mouth. To the right is the brains. It was hung and cut in half.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by j99carmona View Post
This thread will not end well. Prepare for a tsunami of internet tough guys and internet "ballistics experts".

Popcorn ready..................
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  #7  
Old 04-23-2011, 12:13 PM
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Where can I buy .22LR that will penetrate 6" of bone. And what is 3" of bone radius, radius is a measure of angles, not depth or distance.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:16 PM
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.22LR is plenty lethal. Just look at Robert Kennedy. And WOW that close? A little 2 close for comfort in my book
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:19 PM
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Family member uses a 22lr for Field Slaughtering pigs, lambs, and sometimes goats. Uses a 22 mag for Beef.

Another family member had his 22 lr stolen in L.A. years ago. The gang member ended up shooting his buddy in the stomach. The bullet bounced around and tore the guy up. Ended up dying from it.

I stand that 22's can be lethal.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:42 PM
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Oh OK I was thinking this was Wild Boar..... My Bad
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  #11  
Old 04-23-2011, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Where can I buy .22LR that will penetrate 6" of bone. And what is 3" of bone radius, radius is a measure of angles, not depth or distance.
6 inches deep, damage wound channel was 3 inch diameter. In ballistic term, "temporary wound channel"
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:51 PM
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but, but....it's smaller than a .45!!! HOW CAN THIS BE???
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  #13  
Old 04-23-2011, 1:01 PM
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22s can be lethal look at those guys on the gator shows them gators take one shot to the dome and they're out.
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Old 04-23-2011, 1:12 PM
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.22LR may indeed be lethal.

I still think you're absolutely crazy if you trust your life to it.
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Old 04-23-2011, 1:14 PM
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It is cited that more people were/are killed with a .22 then other calibers. I wish I could find the source to that.
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Old 04-23-2011, 1:20 PM
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As stated 22s are lethal but for home defence a larger caliber is probably a much better idea.
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Old 04-23-2011, 1:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bussda View Post
It is cited that more people were/are killed with a .22 then other calibers. I wish I could find the source to that.
I'm assuming this is because most people dont take them seriously enough.
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Old 04-23-2011, 1:25 PM
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My dad is a butcher and has killed thousands and thousands of pigs and cows with a .22lr, he uses a Ruger mark 3, and some unknown .22lr bolt rifle for cattle.

They ALWAYS go down.
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Old 04-23-2011, 1:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuna quesadilla View Post
.22LR may indeed be lethal.

I still think you're absolutely crazy if you trust your life to it.
I CCW a .25acp because it's much more concealable than my .45 (also on my CCW) and it's better than not carrying anything at all. It's not always feasible to carry my .45, especially when all I'm wearing is board shorts and a white Hanes t-shirt (which is most of the time). I'm not going to grab my .25 to check out a loud crash downstairs at 3am, but i do trust it to protect me better than whatever rocks or sticks happen to be laying around when i'm reading in the park, or walking my dog...
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  #20  
Old 04-23-2011, 2:55 PM
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.22lr is fairly lethal even up to 300 yards. shot placement is just important as caliber.
if you hit your target in a critical area like a major artery, and/or critical organ.
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  #21  
Old 04-23-2011, 4:34 PM
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Home defense, 12 gauge pump. Magazine load is:1st round-00 buckshot, 2nd round-deer slug, repeat until empty.
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  #22  
Old 04-23-2011, 4:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy43 View Post
Home defense, 12 gauge pump. Magazine load is:1st round-00 buckshot, 2nd round-deer slug, repeat until empty.
same except
2 00 buck rest slugs
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  #23  
Old 04-23-2011, 4:51 PM
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I'm about to "trust my life" to a Seecamp in .32. I actually *wish* this new pistol was .22lr. Ultimately, for me, I wanted something so tiny I would know if I'm wearing pants, I have it. Like Irish Pirate said, it's not what I would grab if someone was kicking my door in, but having a gun is pretty important to me.
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Old 04-23-2011, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Riflelover View Post
The gang member ended up shooting his buddy in the stomach. The bullet bounced around and tore the guy up. Ended up dying from it.
A lot of people say this about .22's
There is no bullet that will "bounce around inside of someone". It may change direction slightly from hitting bone, but not enough to "bounce around". It will either pass through or go in and stop. There is not enough energy to have more than one direction change.
I picture a pinball machine and your eyes lighting up and the score displayed on your forehead while the bullet "bounces around" inside you hahaha
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Old 04-23-2011, 5:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mif_slim View Post
The lesson here isn't that a 9mm+ can kill better then 22lr, but shot placement is KEY to stopping a threat. Hope you guys like beacon!
Placement is nice, but in all honesty, it's a luxury when you are in the standard fight for your life (which usually is over in a matter of seconds and occurs at distances of three yards or significantly less).

I would definitely be nice to be able to see the slide/barrel index on the dirtbag's cranio-ocular cavity. Unlikely, but nice. But since reality trumps idealism, I'll take the largest caliber that I can fire efficiently in a firearm form factor that is suited to the situation.

Does that mean that I wouldn't use a .22 if that is all that I have? Heck no. But I'm also going to plan on dropping the gun after I empty it and finishing the job with my thumb through his eye as I grapple with him until he bleeds out. A ballpoint pen is better than no weapon at all. Doesn't mean that you should buy a ballpoint pen instead of a .45acp handgun.

It is a better evolutionary strategy to hedge your bets rather than getting by with "just enough" or relying on shot placement to get the job done.

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Originally Posted by DirtyDave View Post
A lot of people say this about .22's
There is no bullet that will "bounce around inside of someone". It may change direction slightly from hitting bone, but not enough to "bounce around". It will either pass through or go in and stop. There is not enough energy to have more than one direction change.
I picture a pinball machine and your eyes lighting up and the score displayed on your forehead while the bullet "bounces around" inside you hahaha
Actually, if you read some GSW autopsy or surgical reports, "bouncing around" isn't uncommon (although "deflection" is the appropriate term). It is common to see incidents of a bullet entering one part of the body and ending up in a completely unexpected part. I remember reading one of a guy who was shot in the shoulder, and the bullet ended up exiting just above the knee. Strange stuff happens when people get shot.
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Last edited by Gryff; 04-23-2011 at 5:12 PM..
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Old 04-23-2011, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie View Post
Where can I buy .22LR that will penetrate 6" of bone. And what is 3" of bone radius, radius is a measure of angles, not depth or distance.

Hope your being sarcastic because the way he described it is pretty clear. Radius is measured in distance, you know from the center of a circle to the outside edge?
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Old 04-23-2011, 6:14 PM
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I apologize, I was being facetious. I still don't believe a .22lr went through 6" of solid bone and left a 6" diameter wound channel.
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Hope your being sarcastic because the way he described it is pretty clear. Radius is measured in distance, you know from the center of a circle to the outside edge?
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Old 04-23-2011, 6:19 PM
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OUCH
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  #29  
Old 04-23-2011, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
I apologize, I was being facetious. I still don't believe a .22lr went through 6" of solid bone and left a 6" diameter wound channel.
You dont have to, but the damage is there and you can see it in the picture. Well, at least I can wry my iPhone. Unles I Photoshop the damage in but I didn't, I dint even play with Photoshop.
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Old 04-23-2011, 6:52 PM
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i have no idea what i'm looking at as far as damage done Can someone draw a diagram if they're feeling up to it?
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Old 04-23-2011, 7:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishPirate View Post
but, but....it's smaller than a .45!!! HOW CAN THIS BE???
Quote of the month.
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Old 04-23-2011, 9:42 PM
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Who said it was not lethal in the first place?
Think about the movie Bloodsport...
"You break brick...but brick don't hit back"
Was the poor pig shooting at you?
I can also kill a pig with a knife.
Whoever thinks 22lr is not lethal is an idiot and may get shot with one thinking it is nothing and die from it.

Last edited by Target19; 04-23-2011 at 9:47 PM..
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Old 04-23-2011, 10:33 PM
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I believe ya; I was on a grand jury last year and one of the cases was a guy murdered with a .22. The forensic patholgist explained how the bullet went through his chest (actually through his seatbelt first as he was sitting in his car, shooter was standing at his window almost point blank) through a rib, nicked his aorta, ripped his lung and something else(i forget what), ended up lodged near the spine of his lower back- about 12" of penetration. I was shocked, said he died in less than 2 minutes from massive internal bleeding. .22s are not toys!
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Target19 View Post
Was the poor pig shooting at you?
Seriously? Where do you think Bacon comes from?
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Old 04-23-2011, 11:56 PM
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Seriously? Where do you think Bacon comes from?
Turkey.






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Old 04-24-2011, 12:05 AM
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There's no doubt that a .22lr can be lethal but if I had to choose a firearm for defense I would want something that would be capable of stopping a determined attacker in 10-15 seconds, not in the hospital hours later. A chest full of expanded 9mm/40/45 holes would be more effective but if it's all you have a .22 is nothing to sneeze at.
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Old 04-24-2011, 3:02 AM
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My fathers best friend shot himself through his calf muscle when he was about 10 with a .22 revolver. He did not even go to the doctor. The bullet went clean in and out. No longterm damage to his muscle either.
(I love listening to the stories my father and his friends tell about life in the late 50's and 60's in OK)

But to OP. .22 is definitely lethal. It is all about shot placement. I would not trust me life to a .22 but I would to 30 rounds of .22 wmr. lol

Last edited by InGrAM; 04-24-2011 at 3:04 AM..
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Old 04-24-2011, 8:32 AM
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My dad used to employ a 10/22 to slaughter pigs. And like mentioned above, they DO drop like a ton of bricks. Now that he's passed on, I use the rifle for killing paper targets and banging steel.
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Old 04-24-2011, 8:49 AM
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ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
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Old 04-24-2011, 9:14 AM
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Dirty Dave your avatar freaks me out! Maybe some of those stories come from 22s that are also 223s. We've all heard those stories like "it entered his ankle and exited his shoulder"...
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