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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:18 PM
gonzo gonzo is offline
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Default PD took away my AR OLL

Hello

Need advice,
Yesterday I took my OLL ar (16" barrel fixed mag with prince50 kit, bush 10rd mag, and collapsble stock) to test shoot in a remote desert location that alot of people shot in. I shot two boxes of 20rd and had 4 boxes left. When I was leaving still on dirt road I was pulled over by local PD a total of 4 cars showed up. They said someone reported a loud weapon in the middle of nowhere? Maybe it was a dirtbike rider? Anyway they asked if I had any weapons and I told them I had a rifle in the trunk, they then went into some kind of high alert situation because they drew their guns and pulled my friend out of the car and handcuffed him and stuck him a patrol car, they then had me get out of car and give them my DL. They proceeded to get rifle out of my car and as they did I explained to them about the OLL situtaion and that it had a fixed mag and was not an AW. They where looking for sn of gun and I told them it was on the receiver, they couldnt find sn? It clearly has one it it is essential arms.
After waiting and them talking among themselves an officer came back and told me that "me and my friend where going to be let go and that if I wanted my armalite back I had to take proof of ownership to Police station, because the rifle was not comming up in the system". He gave me a business card with a number on the back and that was it.

Any thoughts guys?

Last edited by gonzo; 11-19-2006 at 5:13 PM..
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:23 PM
rssslvr rssslvr is offline
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Was it a sheriffs department or a local cop?They didn't give you a property recipt?What county were you in just out of curiousity?

Last edited by rssslvr; 11-19-2006 at 4:32 PM..
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  #3  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:29 PM
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Yes, more detail would be helpful.
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  #4  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:30 PM
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Proof of ownership my arse, those cops should of never of confiscated your legal property. I hope you got a receipt.

If those cops ran the S/N it would of came back not stolen and that would of been that.

Were you illegally shooting in a non-designated shooting area?

I would of told the cops the truth, that there is nothing illegal in my car and that they would need probable cause or a search warrant to inspect my vehicle. The 4th and 5th amendment is your friend in cases like this.
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:32 PM
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It was San Bernardino Sherrif all I have is a business card with a 9 digit number on back. Also I forgot to mention they took the remaining 3 boxes of ammo and left the rifle case in the trunk of my car.

I called the number on the card this morning and I was told local PD station is closed on weekend, I told the dispatcher what had happened and she said I will have to see the property clerk and take proof of ownership but to call first.

Last edited by gonzo; 11-19-2006 at 8:12 PM..
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  #6  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanze
I would of told the cops the truth, that there is nothing illegal in my car and that they would need probable cause or a search warrant to inspect my vehicle. The 4th and 5th amendment is your friend in cases like this.
I agree; as much as I am a supporter of LEO's in general, I think they have a damn tough dirty job to do, you can and should enact your 4th amendment rights against illegal search and seizure.
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  #7  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo
It was San Bernardino Sherrif all I have is a business card with a 9 digit number on back. Also I forgot to mention they took the remaining 3 boxes of ammo and left the rifle case in the trunk of my car.

I called the number on the card this morning and I was told local PD station is closed on weekend, I told the dispatcher what had happened and she said I will have to see the property clerk and take prood of ownership but to call first.
What area of SB county were you in?Was this in one of the designated shooting areas?Alot of SB county is shotgun only.

Last edited by rssslvr; 11-19-2006 at 4:37 PM..
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  #8  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:38 PM
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Contact a lawyer.
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:39 PM
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^^^^^^
Yep what he said
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  #10  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rssslvr
What area of SB county were you in?Was this in one of the designated shooting areas?Alot of SB county is shotgun only.
It was Adelanto

And their was plenty of shell casings and shotgun casings around. I am not familiar with that area (big mistake on my part) my friend rides his quads out their and he told me about that spot.

Last edited by gonzo; 11-19-2006 at 4:44 PM..
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  #11  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo
It was Adelanto

And their was plenty of shell casings and shotgun casings around. I am not familiar with that area (big mistake on my part) my friend rides his qauds out their and he told me about that spot.
Just because there were shell casings on the ground doesn't mean it is legal to shoot there.Chances are if alot of people ride there then it is probably shotgun only but I can't say for sure,I am not familiar with that area either.
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  #12  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:46 PM
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If on Monday morning they are still stalling then Id lawyer up. Its to bad most CA gun laws are so vague that they have to take you rifle then check in later to see if its legal or not.

Same thing happend to me and some freinds in Orange County years ago, but back then the DOJ called the SD up and told them to give our stuff back ASAP.
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rssslvr
Just because there were shell casings on the ground doesn't mean it is legal to shoot there.Chances are if alot of people ride there then it is probably shotgun only but I can't say for sure,I am not familiar with that area either.
What you say makes alot of sense, ignorant on my part but shouldn't they have given me a ticket?

I am afraid they just wanted to keep my rifle I guess I will find out.
The sad part is I cannot miss work and will probably not be able to go to PD until friday.
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:49 PM
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Well, if you have proof of ownership (DROS?) just go get your gun back... If you have problems beyond that, get a lawyer. If you don't then just chalk it up to bad luck and shooting where you probably should not have been.

One IMPORTANT thing though, DO NOT take possesion of it if they have removed the magazine. If they do that, you have to get a lawyer.
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  #15  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwater OPS
One IMPORTANT thing though, DO NOT take possesion of it if they have removed the magazine. If they do that, you have to get a lawyer.
Would you expand on that?
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  #16  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calshooter
Would you expand on that?
open mag well + PG = AW.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:56 PM
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I would call and tell them you would like your property. If they jerk you around just plainly tell them that your lawyer has advised you to contact them directly to resolve the issue to avoid unnecessary toubles and fees. They probably figure your DROS has a good chance of not having a serial number and no way to prove ownership since it's a longgun so they win by default, but if you give them something to worry about they should liven up and start working for you. If not, seek a lawyer and do whatever you need to. Like said, don't take posession of it without the magazine fixed in place. Also, don't forget to demand everything back that was with it, including the magazine and ammo. If they don't have it, file a complaint while you are there. You should be able to get a report, or item submission, or something from your rifle with a Sheriffs name on it; that's who you will put the complaint against.

SBSD has usually been pretty laid back from what I have encountered, but then agan I've never been confronted about anything firearms related. I can't imagine much trouble from the SBSD, but then again, I could easily be wrong.

I would call them at this point. For all you know you will call and they will tell you to pick it up and that is that. Call first, if you don't get anywhere with that, seek a lawyer for help.
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo
What you say makes alot of sense, ignorant on my part but shouldn't they have given me a ticket?

I am afraid they just wanted to keep my rifle I guess I will find out.
The sad part is I cannot miss work and will probably not be able to go to PD until friday.
I would just take the day off work Monday and try and get my rifle and if they don't give it back spend the rest of the day on the phone trying to get a lawyer.I am sure the rifle cost more than a days wages.
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ligamentum flavum
open mag well + PG = AW.
Yup. They could hand you the rifle, then ask you to drop your weapon, put you in cuffs, and start the charges of posession of an assault weapon (and possibly posession of a weapon in a federal building) without you even leaving. Not a good thing.
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  #20  
Old 11-19-2006, 4:57 PM
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If they removed the magazine and you have evil features on it, it is an assault weapon.

I like the idea of just trying to get it back once you show your proof and if they say no, then stop talking to us and get a lawyer. If they give it back, then you should be good to go. Next time tell them unless they can prove it has been stolen, they will not take it and demand to see a supervisor. The gun should have never left you in the first place.
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  #21  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:01 PM
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Do'h! of course. Didn't think of that, I guess I'm not sneaky enough. Thanks all.
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:01 PM
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You might want to put your hands behind your back and hold them together when they go to get the rifle. It will prevent you from taking anything they try to hand you before you have a chance to inspect it. Let them hold it, or set it on the counter, while you inspect it, and once everything is in order THEN take it.

Chances are though, you will go in and they will give it to you without problems. I am sure there might be some damage, like scratching, etc (someone even had them break the mag release with a hammer trying to get the mag out, so maybe bring an extra one to be safe. Have THEM install it if this is the case).
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  #23  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:01 PM
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You are not going to be able to get your rifle back Friday. They are going to make you fill out the Law Enforcement Gun Release Application. You will have to send in $19 with it. The DOJ then will respond within 30 days (and yes they take the full 30 days and thats the day they actually receive it). Then you are going to have to go down to the Sheriff’s department to get the rifle back with the letter.

All the above is the best case scenario though.
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  #24  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:05 PM
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Another example of our friendly public servants treating gun owners and their property badly. It is a shame as a very pro LEO community is rapidly becoming despondent.

+1 on the lawyer advice.

People will tell you that you should have refused to answer the weapon in the car question and refused any request to search the car. However, I'm pretty sure these guys would have turned nasty and wiggled their way in.
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  #25  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:06 PM
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Is there an Armalite that is OLL? And are you sure your's is an OLL?
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  #26  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:12 PM
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I think the cop was just using “Armalite” as a generic name for an AR-15. Probably what he shot in the Academy.
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  #27  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvtolean
Is there an Armalite that is OLL? And are you sure your's is an OLL?
It is essential arms OLL

The officer called it an Armalite I was just quoting what they told me.
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  #28  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:13 PM
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Ah, OK.

Was going to tell you to leave it there if it wasn't legit.

What a drag man. Let us know...
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  #29  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:15 PM
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Good luck on getting your rifle back. It is really F'ed up. They take it for "safe-keeping" then you have to pay to get it back.
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  #30  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:28 PM
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Not to hijack the thread, I have a question sort of related to this issue.

How can we find out if our OLL's sn# is in the system?

Please advise.
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Old 11-19-2006, 5:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arguy15
You are not going to be able to get your rifle back Friday. They are going to make you fill out the Law Enforcement Gun Release Application. You will have to send in $19 with it. The DOJ then will respond within 30 days (and yes they take the full 30 days and thats the day they actually receive it). Then you are going to have to go down to the Sheriff’s department to get the rifle back with the letter.

All the above is the best case scenario though.

this is the truth. you will also not get any ammo back as it is destroyed or shot through your rifle after you left take your pick.
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Old 11-19-2006, 5:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOEKILLA
Not to hijack the thread, I have a question sort of related to this issue.

How can we find out if our OLL's sn# is in the system?

Please advise.
If your weapon is registered as an assault weapon than it is in the system. Seeing as how NO OLLs are registered than it would be pretty hard to get you serial in there right now. What the Sheriff was essentially saying is "You got an AR-15. AR-15s are assault weapons. It's not in the system therefore I think it's illegal." This is bad logic though as OLLs are not AR-15s by definition.
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  #33  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOEKILLA
Not to hijack the thread, I have a question sort of related to this issue.

How can we find out if our OLL's sn# is in the system?

Please advise.
Since OLL's are not in the system, here's what I did,

I always carry photocopies of the following per weapon/rifle case:

- photocopy of DROS transaction

- photocopy of bill of sale/dealer receipt

- copies of all the relevant state laws and the ones posted here and the CA DOJ, it'll help the officers make a "judgement call" to confiscate my rifle or not, I have shot mine along with my registered 50BMG, an off duty LEO, homeland security informed me, I was shooting an "illegal" rifle, I showed him my paperwork and he returned it back and said, "ok, be careful with those things..."

Always always carry proof of ownership with you, like what the other folks have said, once they confiscate your ****, it'll be hard for you to get it back, it may not even be worth it.

I am hoping they will give back your rifle.
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  #34  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:54 PM
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We need a OLL paperwork setup.

This is just stupid, he should be cleaning his rifle right now.
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  #35  
Old 11-19-2006, 5:56 PM
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"Papers Please."

"No."

*fall off the face of the earth*
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  #36  
Old 11-19-2006, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6172crew
We need a OLL paperwork setup.
This finally tipped me into printing some out. However, looks like we lost the sticky with all the hand letters etc. Anybody know where it is. Searching on OLL and letter gets a lot of hits.
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  #37  
Old 11-19-2006, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo
It was Adelanto

And their was plenty of shell casings and shotgun casings around. I am not familiar with that area (big mistake on my part) my friend rides his quads out their and he told me about that spot.
you might also want to double check exactly where you were. i'd imagine someone else from the high desert might have more knowledge, but as far as i know there isn't anywhere in the city of adelanto that you can legally shoot.
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  #38  
Old 11-19-2006, 6:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoWeird
"You got an AR-15. AR-15s are assault weapons. It's not in the system therefore I think it's illegal." This is bad logic though as OLLs are not AR-15s by definition.
Bad logic, maybe so - but I blame the CADOJ, they still have not update LEO's as to the OLL situation.. For obvious reasons - as the CD DOJ still think they are illegal.. some how.. just have to figure out how to beat their own words..

Anyway, I know lots of LEO's and they are still going off old information given to them.. Should they know it, ofcourse - but if they dont know that things have changed then why research updates when the DOJ has ALWAYS updated you.. Like said, I blame the DOJ for not doing thier part.. Does that make sence?...

For what its worth though, I think its wrong that they took the gun and I hope he gets it back... I guess add SB county to the possible test case list...
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  #39  
Old 11-19-2006, 6:10 PM
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I am still torn as to carry them or not as I am not doing anything wrong.
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  #40  
Old 11-19-2006, 6:13 PM
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Even with papers, you might get a sympathetic ear, but they will more than likely take the rifle.. Anyone can type up papers to say what ever, its up to the CA DOJ to define the legal rifles from illegal for LEO's to enforce, till the CA DOJ does this, all AR style rifles could be viewed as illegal by LEO's..

Just my two cents.. Right or not its how I think these type of contacts will always go down..
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