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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 11-17-2006, 4:47 PM
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Smile Introducing the U-15 Riflestock

It has taken 11 months of development, thousands of dollars and uncountable hours to design. And I had to create a business on top of it all. I have been looking forward to this day for a long time.

This is the U-15 rifle stock.





It is about time we were able to use detachable magazines.
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2006, 4:47 PM
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I have just created a small business called California Rifles to sell U-15 stocks. They will be available from my website which will be up very soon. www.CaliforniaRifles.com or CARifles.com

The U-15 stock will attach to any AR-15 style receiver. The only special requirements are the use of a CAR buffer and buffer spring.

I designed the U-15 stock with incredible attention paid to the California assault weapon laws.

The U-15 stock is mated to a aluminum bracket. The bracket attaches to the receiver using the same socket head cap screw used by the pistol grip.


As you can see in the picture, the U-15 bracket is exposed along the top front of the stock. The top of the bracket is higher than the top of the exposed portion of the trigger. This makes it impossible to get the web of your hand lower that the top of the exposed trigger.


The U-15 stock uses a traditional rifle stock grip. I was heavily influenced by the grip of the M1 Garand. There are no holes in the stock so there is no way it can be called a thumbhole stock.


The U-15 receiver extension is a special version used for AR-15 pistols. It is special because it works with a receiver plate which retains the take down pin spring and detent. The receiver extension is covered with an ACE foam tube. (My shipment of foam tubes is the only thing I am missing which is why 2 of the 3 rifles in the picture are missing the foam tubes.)

The dimensions and contours of the AR-15 A2 stock were used in the design of the U-15 stock. The length of the stock, the shape of the recoil pad and the angle of the butt are exactly the same as the A2 stock. The recoil pad is made by John Masen.


The U-15 stock is painted with a black textured epoxy paint that is impervious to water and scratches. Though it doesn't look like it, the stock itself is made from beechwood which is very hard. It is extremely solid and sturdier than the A2 stock. The connection the stock makes to the receiver is so strong, should you ever need to butt whip someone with the U-15 stock you will not have to worry about damaging the rifle.

A little history...

Though I am frustrated and constantly infuriated by California lawmakers, I am still a Californian. This is where my family is and where my home is. I am the 4th generation of my family born here and my wife and I just gave birth to two 5th generation Californians. We love California and we're not going to leave.

I just needed to get creative.

I love to shoot and a year ago I just got fed up with the Kel-Tec SU-16 and fixed mag AR-15's. I wanted to shoot an AR. I wanted to be able to use all of the AR uppers and accessories. I wanted the reliability of the AR.

It took a crazy amount of time, research and experimenting, but I finally came up with the idea of U-15 stock.

I designed and redesigned the stock over and over. My first stocks were made from dense foam. In January I used a sawzall and a dremel to make my first stock out of a redwood 2x6. That was the point where I realized I could go no further on my own. I needed the help of a professional. And that's when I stumbled up Matt Shuster of Ironwood Designs (http://www.ironwooddesigns.com)

Matt is famous in the wood gunstock world, especially AK stocks and handguards. His quality is second to none.

I setup a meeting with Matt at his shop and brought him my wood prototype attached to a rifle. I'll never forget his response. After 30 seconds of just staring in silence with eyes glazed over he says, "We can do this."

It took 9 months of designing, prototyping, testing, and redesigning to finally produce the final shape. We burned through 6 more prototypes during development. It was a monster task designing the grip to be comfortable, ambidextrous, and positioned in a CA compliant way. It stopped being fun rather quickly. But after 9 months of design work the grip is even more comfortable than I thought possible.

All of the stocks are manufactured using a CNC machine and a computer, so they are precision perfect. All design work had to be done three dimensionally on a computer.

The price of the stock is $185. That includes the stock, recoil pad and bracket pre-assembled. It also includes the pistol receiver extension, buffer spring, buffer, and ACE foam tube to cover the extension. (You are on your own putting that foam tube on.) To complete the rifle you need only to install a trigger kit in the receiver and attach an upper receiver.

My development and production costs were tremendous for a guy like me. My goal is not to make a lot of money. In fact originally I only intended to make the stocks for my friends and I. But I want Californians to be able to shoot their AR style rifles like they are supposed to be shot. With detachable magazines. So I threw down a huge pile of cash and manufactured these stocks.

I really want to get the price down. Like I said, I did this for you guys, my fellow California shooters. If the stocks sell well I will do everything I can to lower the price as much as possible. I hope you guys like them.


Matt from Ironwood Designs and I are going to be at the Costa Mesa gun show next weekend, Nov 25th and 26th. Our tables are going to be next to one another so search for California Rifles and Ironwood Designs. I will post our exact location ASAP.

Come to the show and try out the stock! I know they look pretty crazy at first, but as soon as you shoulder a rifle sporting the U-15 stock you are going to be impressed.

-Grant
CARifles@gmail.com

Last edited by Toolbox X; 11-17-2006 at 5:02 PM..
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  #3  
Old 11-17-2006, 4:51 PM
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Ok, I'm officially impressed. Nice look!
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  #4  
Old 11-17-2006, 4:53 PM
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OUTSTANDING!!! I am thinking they might start typing on that list.
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  #5  
Old 11-17-2006, 4:54 PM
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I am impressed too....

But $185 is just a little to the pricy side, I understood all the WORK he had put into it.... but when price is NOT right... it would be hard for it to take off!
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  #6  
Old 11-17-2006, 4:57 PM
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Ohh your in Sac too! I want to see one of these in person!
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  #7  
Old 11-17-2006, 4:57 PM
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Did you happen to send an example to the DOJ for approval? I am pretty sure if you did you probably didn't get a response or it is left up to the 58 DA's to determine it's legal or not. I like it. It's another option.
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  #8  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:02 PM
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I like it, it's certainly going to give some state employees a big headache.

I don't consider $185 unreasonable at all considering all that it includes.
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  #9  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:02 PM
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The icing on the cake would be to get the DOJ to reply in writing to you that they do not consider the use of this stock to be a pistol grip. I know it isn't but to get that letter would be great for business. On any other rifle there wouldn't be a second thought on the matter, but with OLL they always seem to look at them differently.
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  #10  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:04 PM
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Dude, thats so much better than some of the other options i've seen.

I hope you do REALLY well. I'll drop you an e-mail from the shop about putting one on the shelf to show it off for you.
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  #11  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:04 PM
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My honestly opinion is.. me no like. but thats just me. I've never been a YES man.
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  #12  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:09 PM
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Nice If you could get a DOJ approved letter that would be sweet.
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  #13  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:09 PM
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Good idea... let me inform you from experience.... PATENT IT... or at least get the process started.... it will cost a lot but you could make millions off this thing. If OLL continue to propogate over the next several years that is by far the best alternative out there.
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  #14  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:10 PM
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Only thing it needs is some sort of cheek-rest for the buffertube, eye relief seems kinda un-ergonomic.
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  #15  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:14 PM
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Yes!
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  #16  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JickoRicko
I am impressed too....

But $185 is just a little to the pricy side, I understood all the WORK he had put into it.... but when price is NOT right... it would be hard for it to take off!
I don't think the price is that high... People spend nearly the same amount on Vltor stocks

That being said, it IS out of my price range.

Last edited by Joe; 11-17-2006 at 5:21 PM..
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  #17  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:16 PM
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There is nothing like another option Please keep the board posted on the websites development and what the pricing will be on this item.

You might also consider a poll to see what the traffic will bear.

Also as has been said in the past a letter from DOJ giving their approval of your stock would be a plus.
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  #18  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M14Gunman
Good idea... let me inform you from experience.... PATENT IT... or at least get the process started.... it will cost a lot but you could make millions off this thing. If OLL continue to propogate over the next several years that is by far the best alternative out there.
Too late I already had a prototype of my own made and I'm pumping out copies in china. j/k

No really, that is a good design. I was just thinking of something like this about a week ago. A cheek rest would be a good idea though.
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  #19  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:20 PM
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The comment the other guy had about the "right price" does hold some ground. If it's possible for you to put out a synthetic version for less, you'll probably get a lot more volume on those.
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  #20  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:20 PM
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You should post this on the AR15.com CA Home Town forum.
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  #21  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JickoRicko
I am impressed too....

But $185 is just a little to the pricy side, I understood all the WORK he had put into it.... but when price is NOT right... it would be hard for it to take off!

err a socom 4 is more than that and you still can not drop your mag

any plans on making one for a full sized buffertube? I hav an ar-10 begging for one of these and the car buffer is around $100 extra
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  #22  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:27 PM
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im 50/50 on this one.. the stock looks nice... but the damn tube sticking out just seems funky. I would probably buy one, depending on final price
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  #23  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:27 PM
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Wow not bad at all, for those of us who still have some lowers not built, this a much better alternative.
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  #24  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:28 PM
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Whenever something is legit the DOJ says they have no authority. I am submitting a stock to them just for fun anyway though. You guys are right, getting DOJ approval would be the holy grail for me. However, the hard truth is the DOJ will never approve anything that is pro-gun like this.

The only way to beat the DOJ strategy of not approving anything is for my stock to build up more and more credibility as being legit by more and more people shooting them. That is how OLL's became legit when the DOJ did everything they could to try and scare people into not buying or transfering them last November and December.

I've been in the process of patenting it for a while now. Patent attorney and all. I've worked too hard to let someone steal my design. Thanks for the concern.

Resting your cheek on the foam pad is very comfortable. It's just like the ACE stocks in that regard.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I've put my heart and soul into this thing.

The sound your magazine makes as you push the mag release button......it's so sweet.
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  #25  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:31 PM
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Toolbox,

Very nicely done! It looks ergonomically friendly.

You are to be rightly commended for your efforts.

And, I for one really dig the look. It's unique, but in a good way. Almost a 'what is that' vibe.

Thanks for doing it.

Last edited by TonyNorCal; 11-17-2006 at 5:37 PM..
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  #26  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:37 PM
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Het guys,
Matt from Ironwood Designs here. Grant just let me know that he posted the new U-15 stock here on Cal Guns. I am very excited for him, as we both put a lot of time and energy into producing this stock. The first run does always costs more. Make no mistake, these units are quality pieces, inside and out, I know, because I was responsible for the final design and the complete manufacturing of the stock.

Just wanted to make a few comments regarding some of the other comments.

Regarding the cheek rest assumptions. When we put together the first few units, yesterday afternoon, and shouldered them, there was no surprise.
What I am trying to say is that they feel natural and comfortable. There is no "huh" somethings feel odd. They saddle right up, with no discomfort in the grip area, or with the cheek piece. If anything, thay are vastly more comforable on the face, than a std. A2 stock. There is plenty of room for eye relief face movement.

I have been designing and manufacturing gun stocks for nearly 15 years, so I know a little about rifle ergonomics. I'll tell you this straight up, it fits and feels good, plain and simple.

Anyway, I'll let you guys get back to your thought and comments.
Another reminder, if you are in the So-Cal area, please come by and see us
at the Coata Mesa Gun Show, Nov 26-26

Hope to see you there.

Thanks,
Matt
www.Ironwooddesigns.com

EDITED TO FIX URL
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  #27  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:37 PM
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Thumbs up

Good work! Nice alternative to some of the other products on the market. Although it makes the rifle look totally different it still looks good.
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  #28  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironwood Designs
I'll tell you this straight up, it fits and feels good, plain and simple.
We all thank you for your truely unbiased opinion...

P.S.
Your website is http://www.ironwooddesigns.com .... not ironwoddesigns...
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  #29  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grammaton76
The comment the other guy had about the "right price" does hold some ground. If it's possible for you to put out a synthetic version for less, you'll probably get a lot more volume on those.

You shouldn't compare the price of a start-up company's product to RRA's A2 buttstock. Think of the startup costs and the sheer volume of products that must be manufactured and sold to break even. After the stock starts selling expect the product's price to drop.

Also, it's likely, unless I'm totally off, that even a synthetic stock would be in the same price range.

Grant and Matt, nice job.
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  #30  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:55 PM
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Default +1, I'm IN!

I've got a a few lowers unbuilt... this stock is a welcome find... hmmm which upper setup to go with... decisions, decisions...
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  #31  
Old 11-17-2006, 5:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donger
You shouldn't compare the price of a start-up company's product to RRA's A2 buttstock. Think of the startup costs and the sheer volume of products that must be manufactured and sold to break even. After the stock starts selling expect the product's price to drop.

Also, it's likely, unless I'm totally off, that even a synthetic stock would be in the same price range.
Actually, I wasn't talking about getting anywhere close to an A2 price point. I'm thinking that if doing a run of synthetic stocks would get it into the $120 range, they'll sell like hotcakes.
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  #32  
Old 11-17-2006, 6:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grammaton76
Actually, I wasn't talking about getting anywhere close to an A2 price point. I'm thinking that if doing a run of synthetic stocks would get it into the $120 range, they'll sell like hotcakes.
I don't know Gram, I kind of think that the price point would be similar with s synthetic stock. I'm not a polymer expert or anywhere close, but I would imagine that the synthetic version would run about the same cost (initially).

Last edited by donger; 11-17-2006 at 6:24 PM..
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Old 11-17-2006, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grammaton76
Actually, I wasn't talking about getting anywhere close to an A2 price point. I'm thinking that if doing a run of synthetic stocks would get it into the $120 range, they'll sell like hotcakes.
Well if you look at the boat paddle stock those run about 120???

Plus you've got another tube here 20-30??
Foam....5?

So at 185 sounds pretty close.........
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Old 11-17-2006, 6:18 PM
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I have one of these stocks, minus the Ace foam extension tube covers. I'll be posting pictures tomorrow, and the stock will be available to "feel in person" at San Jose Gun Exchange after tonight.

If you want to come down and check it out, feel free to stop by. I'll have it on one of my builds so you can feel it for yourself.

I have a few comments on it before I post a full-featured review. Even though this stock looks a bit odd and "spacey" it feels great. The grip is as natural as you can get for an AR style rifle without a pistol grip. You have to try it to believe it.

You might think the price is high, but the quality is superb. It is a really solid design that does not move or wiggle, and the quality of the textured epoxy finish is really nice. It is a very nice feeling stock. It has the feel of a professionally created and finished product.

I would like to see one come out in a fancy figured walnut with handguards to match....

I'll post more tomorrow night, and hopefully have a full review with pictures by the end of the weekend.
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  #35  
Old 11-17-2006, 6:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolbox X
The connection the stock makes to the receiver is so strong, should you ever need to butt whip someone with the U-15 stock you will not have to worry about damaging the rifle.
Structural strength is something that has always bugged me about this design (which has been around in photoshop form since Mudís thread and re-appears every couple of months). That is a mighty big lever you are bolting on to the pistol grip mount. It has always looked to me like you could easily bust either the ears on the stock mount or even the lower by falling on the gun. Also, the buffer is even more exposed to damage than it normally is. Have you done any destructive testing? How much lateral force at the butt of the stock does it take to break something?

The other issue I have is ergonomics. It looks like youíd need really long fingers to use this stock given the web of hand to trigger face length. This stock design is different enough from anything else out there, it would be nice to be able to shoulder it a few times before buying. Guess thatís why youíll be on the gunshow circuit...

Overall though, I think this is a very well executed example of this design.
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Old 11-17-2006, 6:22 PM
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Should of numbered the first 100 or so as collectors
if the idea pans out..Interesting concept.
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  #37  
Old 11-17-2006, 6:22 PM
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I like having more options. From the looks of it, this looks like the best option for those who want a detachable mag. Do you need to use the carbine buffer tube so that it does not contact your stock to avoid the appearance of a "thumbhole"?

I appreciate the ingenuity and innovation displayed by all the members of the CA OLL community. It just makes be a bit sad we have to go to such lengths to avoid the "evilness" of a $.99 pistol grip.

Lastly, In the pictures you posted the A1 style upper with triangular handguards.... is that a FH on the muzzle or a "look-a-like" muzzle-brake? I can't really tell from the photo.....

drc
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  #38  
Old 11-17-2006, 6:24 PM
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Fjold Fjold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolbox X
The U-15 stock is mated to a aluminum bracket. The bracket attaches to the receiver using the same socket head cap screw used by the pistol grip.
Grant what is the buttstock material made out of? Laminate?
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  #39  
Old 11-17-2006, 6:26 PM
the_lynch_family the_lynch_family is offline
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I am thinking your new stock with this stock saddle may work as a nice accessory to your setup.. But maybe flip it around 180 degrees. Maybe I had to many bears, Not sure. I will rethink it in about 2 hours..LOL

Last edited by the_lynch_family; 11-17-2006 at 6:29 PM..
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  #40  
Old 11-17-2006, 6:28 PM
sniper_jay sniper_jay is offline
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Default uh oh..

u tryin' to put prince50 outta business?
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