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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 04-10-2011, 11:51 PM
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Default Help me build a .308 AR-10 style long range platform:UPDATE - pics on page 11!

Ok CalGunners, time for some fun. I'm looking at building an AR-style .308 caliber long range platform for getting into shooting 600-1000 yards. Not worrying about optics just yet, focusing on the build first. My primary initial concern is finding an upper, and then a lower that mates to it. I'm aware there are several lowers available for .308, but have NOT seen many free-floated uppers. I've seen free-floated 5.56/.223 uppers, but not .308. Post links if you can please, and I'll be editing this first post as the parts list grows till I have a complete rifle to order. I'm hoping to keep this within a total price of about $2k-$2.5 give or take, and I'm aware that may be difficult, but I'd like to try. If not...well, post the parts and we'll see what I end up with hehehehe. For starters....

Magpul PRS - http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG308/84
Basic AR-10 pistol grip - Long Link
POF Piston free-floated barrel complete upper - http://www.pof-usa.com/upper/upper308-20.htm

I'd like to find a cheaper piston free float upper...

Oh and additional requirements for the upper - 20"-22" barrel. I have a carbine in 5.56 already, this .308 build will be for 600-1000 yards and I want the extra accuracy without it becoming a broomstick handle. Thanks for the help in advance!

Last edited by NorCalAthlete; 09-02-2011 at 7:14 PM..
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Old 04-10-2011, 11:57 PM
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Fulton Armory has some good rifles.
They even have an option to have a bullet button installed.

http://fulton-armory.com/FAR-308-Rifles.aspx
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Old 04-10-2011, 11:58 PM
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from what I understand a piston driven ar is bad for accuracy due to forces causing barrel flex during cycling. so from my understanding the two things dont exactly go hand in hand. also it depends on the lower armalite vs dpms pattern which dictates what kind of upper you can get. I think lwrc makes a .308 piston upper and a couple more I cant remember off the top of my head.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osis32 View Post
from what I understand a piston driven ar is bad for accuracy due to forces causing barrel flex during cycling. so from my understanding the two things dont exactly go hand in hand. also it depends on the lower armalite vs dpms pattern which dictates what kind of upper you can get. I think lwrc makes a .308 piston upper and a couple more I cant remember off the top of my head.
?? Any specifics on that? Articles? Links? Not being confrontational just curious to educate myself. I was under the impression free-floating the barrel improved accuracy at long ranges, haven't heard anything about pistons decreasing accuracy on free-floated barrels. Also, while LWRC does make a .308 piston upper, it's nearly $2500 just by itself let alone the rest of the rifle. The one I linked is only $2,000, though without a free-float barrel. Ideally, something like the Adcor BEAR but 20" instead of 16" and for .308 instead of 5.56. I could also care less about the forward charging handle...but that's irrelevant at the moment.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:20 AM
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this may help
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=265677
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62 Charlie View Post
Fulton Armory has some good rifles.
They even have an option to have a bullet button installed.

http://fulton-armory.com/FAR-308-Rifles.aspx
what a difference from the early days when Fulton cancelled an order of lowers that were in transit to 10%. He put a recall on the shipment and told 10% that if they got delivered by mistake and Wes didn't return them that he would file a stolen property report with the authorities.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:24 AM
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the adcor bear eliminates the flex on the barrel by putting the piston system on the rail independent on the barrel. this means that the rail is taking the force of the piston movement instead of the barrel. the gas block in the pof vents the gas from the barrel gas hole into the piston system is connected to the barrel if Im not mistaken. Im not sure adcor makes it for .308 or not either.
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Last edited by osis32; 04-11-2011 at 12:27 AM..
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
what a difference from the early days when Fulton cancelled an order of lowers that were in transit to 10%. He put a recall on the shipment and told 10% that if they got delivered by mistake and Wes didn't return them that he would file a stolen property report with the authorities.
I remember they used to not sell to california but nothing like that.
That is pretty bad.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:39 AM
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for that price you might wanna look into a scar 17. it was designed to be piston. also robinson arms is coming out with a .308 eventually. theres also a company that makes updated FALs with rails and set up for glass.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by osis32 View Post
for that price you might wanna look into a scar 17. it was designed to be piston. also robinson arms is coming out with a .308 eventually. theres also a company that makes updated FALs with rails and set up for glass.
Are you thinking of DS Arms?
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by osis32 View Post
for that price you might wanna look into a scar 17. it was designed to be piston. also robinson arms is coming out with a .308 eventually. theres also a company that makes updated FALs with rails and set up for glass.
Checked the pricing on a SCAR 17 @ The Gun Room (Elk Grove), they're listing it at $3200. Even with the $2000 upper I listed, I can get a $300 lower+ that magpul stock+ $100 parts kit and come in $600 under that.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
Checked the pricing on a SCAR 17 @ The Gun Room (Elk Grove), they're listing it at $3200. Even with the $2000 upper I listed, I can get a $300 lower+ that magpul stock+ $100 parts kit and come in $600 under that.
Only other gun i could think of to get is a M1A
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Old 04-11-2011, 1:08 AM
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308 ar's have proprietary uppers and lowers.
So if you get a POF lower you have to get a POF upper

EDIT: Nevermind I was wrong

Last edited by 7.62 Charlie; 04-11-2011 at 9:52 PM..
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Old 04-11-2011, 1:09 AM
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Nah. I already have a Remington 700 VTR for a bolt action .308. I want a semi-auto one with a longer barrel now. The price limit isn't really THAT concrete, but I'd like to stay as low as possible on it while still getting the free floated barrel and piston system. Or maybe just have to look into a different stock with recoil springs or something. Not a big fan of bruised shoulders from lots of shooting, though admittedly it's more shotgun than rifle these days.

edit - @ 7.62 Charlie - I thought as long as it was "ar10 style upper w/ ar10 style lower" / "DPMS upper w/ DPMS style lower" it was ok? For example the CMMG lower w/ DPMS upper?
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Old 04-11-2011, 1:24 AM
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Im not 100% on what lowers fit what uppers.
Im just saying you cant put any upper on any lower like an ar-15.
Maybe someone who knows more about 308 ar's can help you out.
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Old 04-11-2011, 1:27 AM
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Check this out. http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sho...roduct_id=2583
Got the MEGA MA-TEN 308 Monolithic Upper & Lower Combo in ten days holding. With this set you don't have to worry about what fit what. They actually hand fitted them. I think this is one of the best combo available at the moment.

This was the link i tried to post http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=409995
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Last edited by dicast; 04-11-2011 at 1:34 AM..
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  #17  
Old 04-11-2011, 1:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dicast View Post
check this out. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=419614
Got the MEGA MA-TEN 308 Monolithic Upper & Lower Combo in ten days holding. I think this is one of the best combo available at the moment.
thats a link to this thread. lol
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  #18  
Old 04-11-2011, 2:41 AM
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I am another that would definitely advise against getting a piston-driven .308 if you are really looking at doing long range precision work with it. Also, I'm an original ArmaLite guy, and you really will get the most out of a long-range .308 S/A with the AR-10. Here is one of the best:

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.asp...0-49488ec48776

And here is the best, although very pricey:

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.asp...0-49488ec48776

Of course, you'll have to buy the lower receiver separately (AR-10 lowers are on the AW list), and this one is manufactured by the same guys anyway:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...f=120&t=754605
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Old 04-11-2011, 6:36 AM
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I don't know if it's possible to make the budget with a piston drive .308 AR based on your needs. Piston will cost more and if you want a precision rig, going cheap on the other parts isn't going to help. I'd stick with a DI system to make it easier to make your budget.
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Old 04-11-2011, 8:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62 Charlie View Post
308 ar's have proprietary uppers and lowers.
So if you get a POF lower you have to get a POF upper
Not true.

I have a POF .308 lower and a Fulton Armry 20" match grade upper. They fit together perfectly. POF and Fulton are made to DPMS pattern so they take Pmags and other compatible DPMS bits.

Armalite AR-10 is the other pattern, and mags are a bit harder to come by.

This .308 AR of mine is an absolute tack driver and a bad azz rifle. It gets right around .5 MOA.

I love this thing.

My setup is:

Fulton Titan .308 upper, 20" match grade barrel (Direct Impingement! No piston crap!)
POF .308 lower with built in ambi bolt catch
Harris bipod
Magpul PRS stock
Geiselle SSA trigger
Tango Down pistol grip with mushroom base plate to rest your hand on

No optics on it right now and no BUIS because I just sold the scope and mount....I am upgrading the glass on it to something a little more powerful now that I see what this thing can do.
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Old 04-11-2011, 8:06 AM
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You want a precision AR10? call GAP and have them build you one, it'll be more accurate than you are.
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Old 04-11-2011, 8:27 AM
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Hmm I thought the scar 17 was around 2700. And yes I meant the ds arms fal. A match grade m1a would work too. God I'd love one of those with an ebr stock.
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Old 04-11-2011, 9:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rero360 View Post
You want a precision AR10? call GAP and have them build you one, it'll be more accurate than you are.
Very true. They not only build on the actual ArmaLite AR-10, but ArmaLite actually endorses their great work. Again, we're talking some high-dollar stuff being done here, though. Just as a fact about the true AR-10's, the AR-10T's are guaranteed sub-MOA accuracy (they also have a LIFETIME warranty, as do all ArmaLite rifles, which says a LOT). Well, my 16" A4 Carbine shot 1/2" groups @ 100 yards using military surplus (Lithuanian) 7.62mm ammo. I think it's fair to say that the free-floated, 20", match-grade factory barrel will whipass on that. And these are STOCK ArmaLites I am talking about.
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Old 04-11-2011, 9:51 AM
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I started my build about a month ago and decided to go without the piston system. I'm still not sure about the barrel and length but my lower is complete and plan on putting together the upper. I got the JD machine AR 308 platform with the Magpul PRS stock and DONT FORGET about the TIMMENEY Trigger!
I was told that the most important part about shooting 1000 yards is the barrel, bolt and then the optics. Of course I went above budget just like any other build but at least I know it was done the way I wanted it.
Hopefully you will stay within budget better than I can
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:02 AM
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Mine.
Tactical Machining
Lower: http://www.tacticalmachining.com/sto...cts.php?cid=45
Upper: Fulton Armory. http://fulton-armory.com/
with the side cocking handle mod.

Last edited by StudioDison; 11-26-2011 at 10:41 PM..
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Old 04-11-2011, 1:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Director View Post
Not true.

I have a POF .308 lower and a Fulton Armry 20" match grade upper. They fit together perfectly. POF and Fulton are made to DPMS pattern so they take Pmags and other compatible DPMS bits.

Armalite AR-10 is the other pattern, and mags are a bit harder to come by.

This .308 AR of mine is an absolute tack driver and a bad azz rifle. It gets right around .5 MOA.

I love this thing.

My setup is:

Fulton Titan .308 upper, 20" match grade barrel (Direct Impingement! No piston crap!)
POF .308 lower with built in ambi bolt catch
Harris bipod
Magpul PRS stock
Geiselle SSA trigger
Tango Down pistol grip with mushroom base plate to rest your hand on

No optics on it right now and no BUIS because I just sold the scope and mount....I am upgrading the glass on it to something a little more powerful now that I see what this thing can do.
Thanks for clearing that up
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Old 04-11-2011, 1:18 PM
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Personally the rock river arms .308 is by far the best and you can see a ton of you tube videos of owners who have tested many brands and it's by far one if the best. You can order the lower from direct action solutions in solana beach ca an they will put the bullet button on it to for no add charge just the price of the part. You can order the lower there to or you can order it direct from the manufacturer. Check out videos is it ad testimonials.
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Old 04-11-2011, 1:32 PM
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Are you set on .308 for some reason or do you want the best long range AR-10 platform? If you want the best long range accuracy for killing paper build it in .260
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Old 04-11-2011, 2:20 PM
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First decide which manufacturer you want to go with regarding your receivers. This will dictate which parts you'll ultimately have to choose from

Here's my build so far:
JD Machine Billet receivers
MagPul PRS
MagPul 10/20 mag
Ergo grip w/ palm shelf
Geiselle SSA trigger
BCM charging handle
Rainier Arms' BCG, Chrome & Phosphate coated
Troy Industries TRX rail (on order)


I'm still undecided on the barrel. But I've narrowed it down to either a Fulton Armory 22" S/S or a Blackhole Weaponry 24" S/S fluted

Optics will either be a Leupold Mark IV or a NightForce NXS
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Old 04-11-2011, 2:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7.62 Charlie View Post
308 ar's have proprietary uppers and lowers.
So if you get a POF lower you have to get a POF upper
Incorrect. I've seen several shooters that have POF lowers mated to different manufactured uppers, and vice versa.

POF uppers will mate to any DPMS compatible lowers
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Old 04-11-2011, 2:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC View Post
Are you set on .308 for some reason or do you want the best long range AR-10 platform? If you want the best long range accuracy for killing paper build it in .260
I went this route...... .260rem ....
This rifle proved itself out to 700yds at the Ironman a few yrs back....The BC on the .260 is significantly better than a .308......

Dpms upper w/24" bull barrel 1/7.5 twist
Fulton lower
JP trigger
JP adjustable gas block
MSTN brake
Leupold Mark IV 6.5x20
no fancy furniture
Butt stock is filled with bb's making it weigh in at 17lbs......(recoil mangement).ya i'm a game'r....
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Last edited by D.carden; 04-11-2011 at 2:57 PM..
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Old 04-11-2011, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC View Post
Are you set on .308 for some reason or do you want the best long range AR-10 platform? If you want the best long range accuracy for killing paper build it in .260
Mainly want .308 because I already have the Remington in .308, and because several friends and relatives have .308s so it's a "common ammo type" thing for me rather than a BC issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rareair View Post
First decide which manufacturer you want to go with regarding your receivers. This will dictate which parts you'll ultimately have to choose from

Here's my build so far:
JD Machine Billet receivers
MagPul PRS
MagPul 10/20 mag
Ergo grip w/ palm shelf
Geiselle SSA trigger
BCM charging handle
Rainier Arms' BCG, Chrome & Phosphate coated
Troy Industries TRX rail (on order)


I'm still undecided on the barrel. But I've narrowed it down to either a Fulton Armory 22" S/S or a Blackhole Weaponry 24" S/S fluted

Optics will either be a Leupold Mark IV or a NightForce NXS
:drool that's shmexy. Do want.
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Old 04-11-2011, 3:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rareair View Post
Incorrect. I've seen several shooters that have POF lowers mated to different manufactured uppers, and vice versa.

POF uppers will mate to any DPMS compatible lowers
I realize that now. The Director already pointed out that i was wrong
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Old 04-11-2011, 3:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpsfirstresponse View Post
Personally the rock river arms .308 is by far the best and you can see a ton of you tube videos of owners who have tested many brands and it's by far one if the best.
Sounds like confusion & little (if any?) personal experience here. Just basing conclusion on YT videos.
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Old 04-11-2011, 4:24 PM
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Either pattern you choose (DPMS/Armalite) there are manf now a days that make match grade upper to reach out to the ranges you are asking for, just get which ever pattern is cheaper. When it comes to long range/precision shooting the lesson i've learned is factor your scope into your budget. You can have a .408 cheytec but if you put a 50 dollar barska scope ontop of it you might as well use it as a paper weight. Am I saying buy this http://swfa.com/Zeiss-6-24x72-SAM-Ta...ht-P41082.aspxjust because price must = quality, no. In this case a rifle is only as good as the scope you put on it. I would suggest going the DPMS pattern for cost. Get a 24" bull barrel with a target crown, free float that mofo and spend the rest of your money on a trigger. When you feel as if your rifle is holding you back and not the other way around switch the barrel to a match one.
upper's for cheap: http://www.rguns.net/rifles/rifles-s...pers-308.shtml
the absolute cheapest to go on an optic: http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactic...cope-P499.aspx
Good single stage trigger:http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=564523
Double stage: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=247530

I would suggest against the magpul stock, I've personally owned one so this is from 1st hand experience. What you gain over the traditional A2 stock is not worth the price tag, save your money and use it towards reloading gear or a better scope.
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Old 04-11-2011, 4:52 PM
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I'm partial to my Larue Tactical OBR .308. They use 1/11.25 twist rate stainless barrels by Lothar Walther. Free floated. Have 20MOA built into the monolithic rail. Uses Magpul LR308 mags.

I would also look into the Lewis Machine and Tool version.
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Old 04-11-2011, 4:55 PM
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everything about .308 ARs great .... except feeding them
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Old 04-11-2011, 5:23 PM
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And so it goes.....and will go forever and as long as there are people with different opinions. Everyone is going to give a different take on this (and everything else firearm-related). Some of these opinions come from experience. Most come from very little-to-none. That's just the way it is. Might I suggest being extremely patient (I know, it's hard when you want that baby and the cash **or credit card** is burning a hole in your pocket) and take your time networking and finding people at your local range that are actually shooting these rifles. Offer them something (either some ammo, a few shots on whatever you happen to be shooting) to let you try out that rifle. It will be SO worth it in the end. It is how I did it, and I never stopped thanking myself.
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Last edited by supersonic; 04-12-2011 at 5:52 AM..
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Old 04-11-2011, 6:28 PM
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I've already shot one with the magpul stock and everything (though only at 50 yards) and loved it...

As for optics, I have a Leupold Mk IV 10x40 waiting to go on it, though I may swap that for a different one depending on how I feel. So the tentative budget is JUST for the rifle. Btw - by all means if you guys have suggestions for triggers, charging handles, whatever that you liked / think is worth getting - PLEASE post links I'm loving all the ideas getting tossed around in here. I'm well aware everyone has their preferences but that's the whole point of this thread, to plan out a build and bounce ideas off each other. I'm in no particular rush, but be assured there WILL be pics posted and constant updates when I start building. Right now it's in the window shopping phase. Also I got an email back from Adcor- their .308 free floated piston upper will be available this winter. I replied with a request for a price estimate and more concrete date
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Old 04-11-2011, 6:40 PM
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The two primary parts that are going to have the greatest effect on the accuracy of your AR will be the barrel and the trigger. Spend your money on these two parts and you might be able to spend a little less on some of the other components. Make sure you have a free float hand guard or rail system.

As supersonic suggested, your best bet is to get behind a few rifles to get an idea of what you do or do not like.
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