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  #1  
Old 04-07-2011, 8:55 PM
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Default trading ar15 for ak need advice

Ok so i have an ar15 with only 40 rounds down th barrel im onto it over 1500 bucks thinking of trading it for another ak i just bought one 3 days ago and love the ak anyways what ak types are good and which are junk they all seem the same to me.
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  #2  
Old 04-07-2011, 8:58 PM
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I know it's your decision and you do what you wish, but if you already have an AK why would you trade your AR for another one?

To answer you question, for that said value of your AR you can expect a good quality one, perhaps an Arsenal or a converted Saiga. Regardless of what you get, just make sure the person your trading adds cash on top, I haven't seen an AK that is worth $1,500 yet.

Edit: Or you can sell your AR for as much as you can get for it, then take the money and purchase an AK.
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Old 04-07-2011, 8:59 PM
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you should get 3 AKs for one AR15. Its also a very bad idea.
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Old 04-07-2011, 9:02 PM
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Get a VZ58 or Golani.
Theyre NICE.
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Old 04-07-2011, 9:05 PM
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No one gonna jump on this one? Ok, ill be the first. Sure, friend, ill trade you an ak for your ar.
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Old 04-07-2011, 9:08 PM
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You can buy 4 wasrs for $1200. Sell Your AR for $1200 and buy 3 or 4 wasrs.
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Old 04-07-2011, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tonelar View Post
Get a VZ58 or Golani.
Theyre NICE.
I love the vz58. The only reason I like gas piston ar15s.
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  #8  
Old 04-07-2011, 9:12 PM
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No one gonna jump on this one? Ok, ill be the first. Sure, friend, ill trade you an ak for your ar.
lol nah im npt talking straight across lol what im trying to figure out is what ak is a true shtf rifle and which ones are just shooters as fpr the one i hqve its a pistol and cant hqve a stock i love the power of it and since i have bolt rifles long range qccuracy aint what im after wih such a small round.
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Old 04-07-2011, 9:33 PM
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lol nah im npt talking straight across lol what im trying to figure out is what ak is a true shtf rifle and which ones are just shooters as fpr the one i hqve its a pistol and cant hqve a stock i love the power of it and since i have bolt rifles long range qccuracy aint what im after wih such a small round.

Have multiple aks and ars, if possible.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:08 PM
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lol nah im npt talking straight across lol what im trying to figure out is what ak is a true shtf rifle and which ones are just shooters as fpr the one i hqve its a pistol and cant hqve a stock i love the power of it and since i have bolt rifles long range qccuracy aint what im after wih such a small round.
any foreign made AK is a SHTF rifle and as far as which ones are just shooters...any foreign made AK. To make it a fair trade it had better be a Krebs with some upgrades or something very special like yugo M76.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:14 PM
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build an AK. keep the AR. or sell your expensive AR And build an AR and an AK? I'm in my AR and AK for less than $1500...??
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Old 04-08-2011, 8:36 AM
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build an AK. keep the AR. or sell your expensive AR And build an AR and an AK? I'm in my AR and AK for less than $1500...??
So im of the understanding that cheap ar's are for plinking only not shtf rifles as for ak's i have shot alot of them but do not understand them nough to build one also dont wanna be the guy in the corner at the party twiddling my thumbs
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Old 04-08-2011, 8:44 AM
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you should get 3 AKs for one AR15. Its also a very bad idea.
Totally agree.
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  #14  
Old 04-08-2011, 9:09 AM
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Totally agree.
if thats the case i will trade for 2 aks lol i have it up for 1050 out of all the ars ive had this is the most accurate due to the yhm bull barrel but like i said after now owning the ak pistol theres no way i want to use the ar for shtf rifle. I do still love the ar for other reasons. Also as a kid i didnt have alot of toys so im making up for it now ar is like a hot wheel ak is a tonka truck lol just kidding
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  #15  
Old 04-08-2011, 9:34 AM
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Keep the AR.... you can't decide long-term reliability off 2 boxes of ammo.
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Old 04-08-2011, 9:35 AM
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HAHAHA what a .......
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Old 04-08-2011, 9:59 AM
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Originally Posted by NorCalK9.com View Post
if thats the case i will trade for 2 aks lol i have it up for 1050 out of all the ars ive had this is the most accurate due to the yhm bull barrel but like i said after now owning the ak pistol theres no way i want to use the ar for shtf rifle. I do still love the ar for other reasons. Also as a kid i didn't have alot of toys so im making up for it now ar is like a hot wheel ak is a tonka truck lol just kidding
Why would you not want an AR15 for a SHTF rifle? This is like saying I would not use my Toyota Land cruiser for a SHTF 4X4, I want to use my H2.

In what SHTF situation can you imagine where an AK47 is going to out preform an AR15? There isn't one. Not a single plausible situation points to an AK47 over an AR15.

The AR is a billion times more versatile, a million times more mission equip-able, 223 ammo is thousands of time more plentiful, the AR platform is hundreds of times easier to find gear for, the AR is dozens of times more accurate, and the AR weighs less fully loaded down.

The ignorant people want to compare the round an AK is FORCED to use, against one of a HUNDRED different rounds an AR15 can be configured to fire.

You want to compare round knock down power...let me slap on my .450 thumper upper then we will compare rounds...you want to compare range...let me slap on my 6.5 upper..oh you want to compare weight, let me slap on my 5.56 LW upper.

There is no situation where an AK outperforms a properly maintained AR...none. Its Hollywood fantasy at best, its Russian envy at worse. By worse I mean American weapon engineers have spent the better half of a CENTURY refining a weapon platform into the best on a battle field, yet people want to believe a weapon that hasn't changed in over 35 years is better...its ignorant.

The US Military uses 5.56 due to budget restraints...you as a civilian are not. You can not compare the 7.62x39 vs the 5.56x45 and say its a AK vs AR debate. You can not compare a Saiga reliable firearm with a Vulcan AR15 clone and say its a accurate comparison. You can not use a 1960s AK and use a M16A1 from 1960s as a reference tool on current reliabilities and performance.

You want to play Ivan with your AK, great I am all for that. Its fine, there is nothing wrong with that. Please don't try to tell us its a better weapon... there is truly no comparison in the real world.

Your 1964 Ferrari is great...its no match for a 2011 Cadillac CTS, or even a 2011 Mustang 5.0. The Ferrari is merely for show...as is the 1960s AK47 design.
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  #18  
Old 04-08-2011, 10:08 AM
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I have to say, keep the AR, save some cash and build an AK. You'll be happier for it.

I'm not a huge fan of AR-15s, but there's certainly nothing wrong with them. Unless you just hate your AR-15, don't sell it.
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Old 04-08-2011, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by NorCalK9.com View Post
lol nah im npt talking straight across lol what im trying to figure out is what ak is a true shtf rifle and which ones are just shooters as fpr the one i hqve its a pistol and cant hqve a stock i love the power of it and since i have bolt rifles long range qccuracy aint what im after wih such a small round.
I can't read anything you write. It's actually pretty rare that type is illegible, so nice work!

With that kind of budget you can look at some of the milled Arsenal AKs. They have some great ones out there. But personally, I'd buy an SGL at around $800 and use the rest for ammo/add-ons.
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  #20  
Old 04-08-2011, 10:42 AM
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Why would you not want an AR15 for a SHTF rifle? This is like saying I would not use my Toyota Land cruiser for a SHTF 4X4, I want to use my H2.

In what SHTF situation can you imagine where an AK47 is going to out preform an AR15? There isn't one. Not a single plausible situation points to an AK47 over an AR15.

The AR is a billion times more versatile, a million times more mission equip-able, 223 ammo is thousands of time more plentiful, the AR platform is hundreds of times easier to find gear for, the AR is dozens of times more accurate, and the AR weighs less fully loaded down.

The ignorant people want to compare the round an AK is FORCED to use, against one of a HUNDRED different rounds an AR15 can be configured to fire.

You want to compare round knock down power...let me slap on my .450 thumper upper then we will compare rounds...you want to compare range...let me slap on my 6.5 upper..oh you want to compare weight, let me slap on my 5.56 LW upper.

There is no situation where an AK outperforms a properly maintained AR...none. Its Hollywood fantasy at best, its Russian envy at worse. By worse I mean American weapon engineers have spent the better half of a CENTURY refining a weapon platform into the best on a battle field, yet people want to believe a weapon that hasn't changed in over 35 years is better...its ignorant.

The US Military uses 5.56 due to budget restraints...you as a civilian are not. You can not compare the 7.62x39 vs the 5.56x45 and say its a AK vs AR debate. You can not compare a Saiga reliable firearm with a Vulcan AR15 clone and say its a accurate comparison. You can not use a 1960s AK and use a M16A1 from 1960s as a reference tool on current reliabilities and performance.

You want to play Ivan with your AK, great I am all for that. Its fine, there is nothing wrong with that. Please don't try to tell us its a better weapon... there is truly no comparison in the real world.

Your 1964 Ferrari is great...its no match for a 2011 Cadillac CTS, or even a 2011 Mustang 5.0. The Ferrari is merely for show...as is the 1960s AK47 design.
DieselPower I truly appreciate your passion for the ar platform. Thats not what I'm asking for here. This argument has been played out over and over again I'm no expert so I'm going with what I fell comftorable with bud. As for the other caliber rounds you mentioned have you looked at the prices on those rounds? I have i thought about the socom round until I saw the price tag yes they out perform the 763x39 in distance but not enough so for what your paying for the round hell you may as well buy a 338 lapua or barrett 416 now if you personally like a 556 thats cool I love it for range n varmint shooting everything newr aint better just cause its newer I had a 73 chevy custom20 w 454 400 turbo tranny salpshift 4x4 that i personally destroyed and towed out h2 n h3 hummers I appreciate the ar for what it is but its not my favorite maybe if i got my hands on one of your fine rifles My mind may be different but as of now I CHOOSE to have an AK47 rather than an ar15 If thats a mistake it is my mistake to make. I'm not trying to be rude I truly appreciate your candor on this subject but since you have so much knowledge since I'm not going to change my mind right now If you some how got seperated from your AR what AK would you pick up? And I know my AR is worth 3 ak's in price I am not selling or trading it for 1 ak and I'm not saying I'm not going to build another ar even better than this one but rite now ak is what I wan't Like I said in previous post I didn't have alot of toys as a kid now I'm 30 and since my business success I like my toys now that I have the money to afford them. We all live and learn I will learn what is best for me in the end just how those hummers learned my 73 was superior. LOL that was a joke. Thank you again DieselPower.
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Old 04-08-2011, 12:49 PM
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DieselPower I truly appreciate your passion for the ar platform. Thats not what I'm asking for here. This argument has been played out over and over again I'm no expert so I'm going with what I fell comftorable with bud. As for the other caliber rounds you mentioned have you looked at the prices on those rounds? I have i thought about the socom round until I saw the price tag yes they out perform the 763x39 in distance but not enough so for what your paying for the round hell you may as well buy a 338 lapua or barrett 416 now if you personally like a 556 thats cool I love it for range n varmint shooting everything newr aint better just cause its newer I had a 73 chevy custom20 w 454 400 turbo tranny salpshift 4x4 that i personally destroyed and towed out h2 n h3 hummers I appreciate the ar for what it is but its not my favorite maybe if i got my hands on one of your fine rifles My mind may be different but as of now I CHOOSE to have an AK47 rather than an ar15 If thats a mistake it is my mistake to make. I'm not trying to be rude I truly appreciate your candor on this subject but since you have so much knowledge since I'm not going to change my mind right now If you some how got seperated from your AR what AK would you pick up? And I know my AR is worth 3 ak's in price I am not selling or trading it for 1 ak and I'm not saying I'm not going to build another ar even better than this one but rite now ak is what I wan't Like I said in previous post I didn't have alot of toys as a kid now I'm 30 and since my business success I like my toys now that I have the money to afford them. We all live and learn I will learn what is best for me in the end just how those hummers learned my 73 was superior. LOL that was a joke. Thank you again DieselPower.
Ok so now you are saying what? The AK is a better weapon why?

1) For you.... So my M91/30 is better for me, is my Mosin Nagant now a better SHTF rifle? No. Its just my weapon of choice. Posting that the M91/30 is the better SHTF rifle is ignorant isn't it.

2) 7.62x39 is cheaper than 5.56x45. So cost is now a matter when all stores are closed? Or are you saying its easier to horde ammo before the EOTWAWKI? In either case the ammo you have is the ammo you have. Cheaper to train? Well .223 and 7.62x39 are like pennies apart.

I agree, every person has the right to use whatever weapon system they feel best for them.

I do not agree that every persons choice is the best. My neighbor feels a squirt gun filled with bleach is the best SHTF weapon...that doesn't make him right.

There is no category where an AK patterned weapon is better than an AR patterned weapon when the situation is SHTF.

I am sure your training with an AK will do you fine if it ever happens..the same as my neighbor's choice.
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Old 04-08-2011, 1:08 PM
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Ok so now you are saying what? The AK is a better weapon why?

1) For you.... So my M91/30 is better for me, is my Mosin Nagant now a better SHTF rifle? No. Its just my weapon of choice. Posting that the M91/30 is the better SHTF rifle is ignorant isn't it.

2) 7.62x39 is cheaper than 5.56x45. So cost is now a matter when all stores are closed? Or are you saying its easier to horde ammo before the EOTWAWKI? In either case the ammo you have is the ammo you have. Cheaper to train? Well .223 and 7.62x39 are like pennies apart.

I agree, every person has the right to use whatever weapon system they feel best for them.

I do not agree that every persons choice is the best. My neighbor feels a squirt gun filled with bleach is the best SHTF weapon...that doesn't make him right.

There is no category where an AK patterned weapon is better than an AR patterned weapon when the situation is SHTF.

I am sure your training with an AK will do you fine if it ever happens..the same as my neighbor's choice.
DieselPower This thread isnt about what is better! I don't give two hoots of others opinion on the matter I wan't a rifle That can be thru hell and back and still shoot I personally never had an ar jam on me but ive seen at the range guys taking 5 mins to clear their ar maybe their ar was a crap build but since I do business with law enforcement as well as military selling dogs I know one thing that about 3 out of 10 hate their M4's! But again your neighbors squirt gun your AR or my AK its about choice. And again this post isnt asking what gun is better between ar or ak its asking what ak is better vs other ak's or variants. So again if you have any knowledge as to which ak is preferrable to you or a friend I'd love to know but do not wan't to debate about which is better Also if youd like to buy it I will give you a special deal since you like them so much!!!!!
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Old 04-08-2011, 1:37 PM
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So I have an offer for a VZ58 I've had a couple tell me to look for one of those.
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Old 04-08-2011, 2:55 PM
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Old 04-08-2011, 3:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluhdow! View Post
I can't read anything you write. It's actually pretty rare that type is illegible, so nice work!

With that kind of budget you can look at some of the milled Arsenal AKs. They have some great ones out there. But personally, I'd buy an SGL at around $800 and use the rest for ammo/add-ons.
I would do as stated above and get a SGL under $800.00.
They are made in Russia on Russian equipment.
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Old 04-08-2011, 3:28 PM
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Seriously, ANY rifle will have you in better shape during SHTF than no rifle (which is what the majority of people will have).. AR vs. AK? I'm still saying have both. Our military uses AR's in SHTF situations, and has for a long time. Many parts of the world are in perpetual SHTF, and those AK's seem to be working out. I can't see overthinking this too much. Armed man>unarmed man when there is no law.
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Old 04-08-2011, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by NorCalK9.com View Post
DieselPower This thread isnt about what is better! I don't give two hoots of others opinion on the matter I wan't a rifle That can be thru hell and back and still shoot I personally never had an ar jam on me but ive seen at the range guys taking 5 mins to clear their ar maybe their ar was a crap build but since I do business with law enforcement as well as military selling dogs I know one thing that about 3 out of 10 hate their M4's! But again your neighbors squirt gun your AR or my AK its about choice. And again this post isnt asking what gun is better between ar or ak its asking what ak is better vs other ak's or variants. So again if you have any knowledge as to which ak is preferrable to you or a friend I'd love to know but do not wan't to debate about which is better Also if youd like to buy it I will give you a special deal since you like them so much!!!!!
Watch this, then change your decision.. If you notice, they used a M16 here, with a 20" barrel, government profile.... a 16" barrel rifle would be even less flexy, not that the M16 had flex..... The AK barrel looks like a wet noodle, which explains its 6MOA accuracy. Do you want the AK because it looks more evil? I side with Diesel on this... I do feel that AK's are damn reliable, hence my signature line...... but that's it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0

Last edited by missiontrails; 04-08-2011 at 3:44 PM..
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Old 04-08-2011, 3:47 PM
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here you go man:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct894.aspx
or check out the ak74 line
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct890.aspx
my fav:http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct913.aspx
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Old 04-08-2011, 3:50 PM
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Keep the AR...

You will realize having one or more semis is not a bad thing. I too like AK patterns more than my AR but I have too much into my DDM4 to sell it for more AK patterns.

Get a:
YUGO
BULGY
ROMY
Golani
VEPR
etc.

Lots of people on this site will say build and that contrary to what you will see on AK type rifle forums.

I should have got a Yugo when I was in WA likewise with a Golani. That would be my first choice. So cheap back then.
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Old 04-08-2011, 3:54 PM
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I don't want to get into the middle of this, but want to include a point. They are totally different platforms. For certain work the ak is a better option. Alot of guys that work for private contractors in the middle east use aks. Most of them are cut down really short, and used in vehicles when traveling in a combat zone. It is common to see aks in the hands of american contractors on the daily in Baghdad.
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Old 04-08-2011, 3:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
you should get 3 AKs for one AR15. Its also a very bad idea.
LOL, If he gets 3 WASR's, his chances are good that he will get ONE with a straight (non-canted) front sight
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Old 04-08-2011, 4:03 PM
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AR people are so sensitive lol. Ill say this, it took 50 years to make the AR a decent weapon. The AK has been a decent weapon from the get go. Both are antiquated IMO.
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Old 04-08-2011, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valleyrat View Post
AR people are so sensitive lol. Ill say this, it took 50 years to make the AR a decent weapon. The AK has been a decent weapon from the get go. Both are antiquated IMO.
+1 for valleyrat lol
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Old 04-08-2011, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalK9.com View Post
+1 for valleyrat lol
So now that the AR "IS" that reliable weapon that evolved over 50 years...... why in the hell would you want a weapon that can barelly hit a watermelon at 100 yards? Just a question. There is no compelling reason. Yes I like AK's, but not for my main rifle..... The only reason for me to own one is for novelty purposes....... yes they kill, yes they are reliable, yes they look RETRO evil. The same reason I would own a M1 Carbine or Thompson M1 - Novelty.

Last edited by missiontrails; 04-08-2011 at 4:37 PM..
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Old 04-08-2011, 4:41 PM
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Do what you want. Sell it, keep it trade it. Its your money and your decision.
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Old 04-08-2011, 4:46 PM
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Heres what i invite I will take an ak throw it in mud sand water cycle it under water pick it up wet put it in more sand and pull the trigger 30x now do the same with an ar. I LIKE AR's I am not anti AR! hell a nice built AR looks way cooler than any AK ive seen yet as of right now I would feel more comftorable with an ak than an AR and once I can afford it maybe I will get me a SCAR dont tell the misses lol but for now I prefer a proven rifle that will eat up all ammo and still have knockdown power at a great price.Thanks guys for all the info and opinions and especially for the facts.
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Old 04-08-2011, 4:49 PM
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arsenal sgl21
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Old 04-08-2011, 4:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fern View Post
Do what you want. Sell it, keep it trade it. Its your money and your decision.
That is a fact! Thank you fern Now does anyone know where I can find some vz58 mags? lol
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Old 04-08-2011, 5:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalK9.com View Post
Heres what i invite I will take an ak throw it in mud sand water cycle it under water pick it up wet put it in more sand and pull the trigger 30x now do the same with an ar. I LIKE AR's I am not anti AR! hell a nice built AR looks way cooler than any AK ive seen yet as of right now I would feel more comftorable with an ak than an AR and once I can afford it maybe I will get me a SCAR dont tell the misses lol but for now I prefer a proven rifle that will eat up all ammo and still have knockdown power at a great price.Thanks guys for all the info and opinions and especially for the facts.
Hardly what you are going to encounter during urban warefare. In my book, accuracy, VERSATILE PLATFORM, and common ammo is worth more than mud wrestling with your rifle. You are not thinking straight on this one. If the AR platform is GOOD ENOUGH for our US Military, it's good enough for Joe Civilian.

Last edited by missiontrails; 04-08-2011 at 5:14 PM..
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Old 04-08-2011, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
...By worse I mean American weapon engineers have spent the better half of a CENTURY refining a weapon platform into the best on a battle field, yet people want to believe a weapon that hasn't changed in over 35 years is better...its ignorant.

....

You want to play Ivan with your AK, great I am all for that. Its fine, there is nothing wrong with that. Please don't try to tell us its a better weapon... there is truly no comparison in the real world.

Your 1964 Ferrari is great...its no match for a 2011 Cadillac CTS, or even a 2011 Mustang 5.0. The Ferrari is merely for show...as is the 1960s AK47 design.
Yet that design has survived with little change at all from the original intent of the weapon system, and has needed no major redesign.

Boils down to this, AR was designed to be light over all else, and the AK to be reliable. Accuracy is great, and the ability to change out calibers is super mall ninja cool, but your $2000 dollar rifle isn't worth the lube you use in it when a sandstorm/rain/mud/snow comes along and the weapon jams. A Somali pirate issue type 3 AK from the 60's is a thousand times better weapon than a super duper AR that wont function reliably. For a bench rest shooter accuracy may be king, but for a rifleman reliability is numero uno.

I can roll with most of what you say, lots of cool features with an AR, too bad they don't mean dink. Take your lower and half dozen uppers on a 30 mile forced march with a basic load for each caliber, and Ill take my WASR/Saiga/Yugo and we shall see who comes across the line first. The rifleman's enemy is weight, with every pound of superfluous non mission essential equipment being cut to make room for more water, food, ammo etc. Doesn't leave a whole lot of room for different rifle combos

And man where do you get the idea that the 16 is the best rifle in the world? Seriously misinformed bordering on ignorantly biased. It hasn't been the best since its introduction. Even the Army has recognized that its not, hence the constant line of rebuilds, modifications, and endless search for an affordable replacement.


OP Ive argued with this guy before, and now that Ive said my piece Im going to go, but know that youve opened up a can of worms here that is going to degenerate into a mix of practicle experience on the battlefield, Call of Duty commandos, and armchair soldiers arguing back and forth.

Endstate is get the rifle you like best. As far as functionality near all AK's are created equal. They've been built to nearly the same specs since the late 40's and across a myriad of countries. My WASR performs as well as My Saiga performs as well as an arsenal, the only real difference is finish. If you like pretty rifles go for something like an arsenal, while a WASR being a good all round rifle has a no frills finish.
With what your selling Id go for a milled receiver no doubt. Ive been yearning for one of the milled polish ones for a while now. All in all they seem to be great rifles.

But if its your only AR, might you consider keeping it? Even I who have lived with and despise the AR platform have an M16A1 kit that I have yet to finish. .223 is as common as .45acp here, and easier to find than x39, and its an easy rifle for the gunnery newbs to learn on, especially with the sight set up (while its not nearly as nice as the AK's in CQB).

I like having an example of such a historically significant rifle. It has been the weapon of the Infantry since Nam, and me and my father both carried the weapon in combat (A1/A2 respectively and we both love our Kalishnikov's!). It'll be nice to show to the kids what we riflemen carried way back in the day, before the US adopted an AK based design .
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