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  #1  
Old 04-07-2011, 1:01 AM
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Default Carry without a round in a chamber = FAIL

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=086_1260862712

Watch the video. A unloaded gun will do you NO GOOD when you NEED IT. Without a round in the chamber you are carrying a unloaded gun. To do otherwise would be to carry a paperweight.

Defensive shootings happen in seconds, you most likely will NOT have time to rack the slide or you remember to rack the slide.
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Old 04-07-2011, 1:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingCode3 View Post
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=086_1260862712

Watch the video. A unloaded gun will do you NO GOOD when you NEED IT. Without a round in the chamber you are carrying a unloaded gun. To do otherwise would be to carry a paperweight.

Defensive shootings happen in seconds, you most likely will NOT have time to rack the slide or you remember to rack the slide.
a pistol with a dry chamber used by a moron or frantic people that lose their cool under pressure will do you NO GOOD.

I wish california considered that unloaded.
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  #3  
Old 04-07-2011, 1:17 AM
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Yep. If I chose to carry, I would never carry without a round chambered.
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Old 04-07-2011, 2:00 AM
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Agreed with above statements. I must also disagree with the first aid administered to the victim by the bystanders.
Though... If the victim had more training or at least more experience carrying a firearm,(which i can't say he didn't), in my own personal opinion things would not have turned out the way they did. Of course my statements are open to criticism.
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Old 04-07-2011, 4:28 AM
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One day I went into a bait shop to get some things to go fishing and a customer was open carrying. There was an off duty LEO asking him if the gun was loaded and the guy said it's an empty magazine in the gun and the LEO just left it at that and left. I was just thinking to myself that since the gun is out in the open and everyone can see he is carrying. A bad guy can just approach him with no warning and attack him or shoot him without notice. You can carry conceal while fishing as long as it's transported legally to the fishing spot so why not just do that? Guess he just wanted to reserve his right to bear arms and show everyone his H&K .

Sorry to thread jack but yes defensive shooting happens fast. It's not like the bad guy is going to say "hey, I'm going to come in and rob the store and get ready. Okay?"
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  #6  
Old 04-07-2011, 4:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingCode3 View Post
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=086_1260862712

Watch the video. A unloaded gun will do you NO GOOD when you NEED IT. Without a round in the chamber you are carrying a unloaded gun. To do otherwise would be to carry a paperweight.

Defensive shootings happen in seconds, you most likely will NOT have time to rack the slide or you remember to rack the slide.
Nonsense. This may be true for cops cruising South-Central LA. It may be true for our soldiers in Iraq. It is not true for most ordinary armed citizens.
The one time I had need for my gun to confront an intruder, I racked the slide to load the round and went to work. No problem.
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Old 04-07-2011, 4:47 AM
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Originally Posted by luckystrike View Post
a pistol with a dry chamber used by a moron or frantic people that lose their cool under pressure will do you NO GOOD.

I wish california considered that unloaded.
People who lose their cool under pressure to the extent that they cannot rack a slide to load a round are people who cannot be trusted to walk around with a round chambered.

And we have all seen that thread where the gentleman shot himself in the drive-thru with his holstered weapon. I'm guessing it was a Glock that did not even have a slide safety. And he's carrying it around loaded in a drive thru. Great.
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Old 04-07-2011, 5:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogervzv View Post
And we have all seen that thread where the gentleman shot himself in the drive-thru with his holstered weapon. I'm guessing it was a Glock that did not even have a slide safety. And he's carrying it around loaded in a drive thru. Great.
I'd rather have a firing pin and trigger safety or grip & hammer safety than a slide safety. Sounds like a case of wandering booger hooks.

And I agree 100% with OP.

Last edited by erikdjs; 04-07-2011 at 5:57 AM..
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  #9  
Old 04-07-2011, 6:31 AM
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There's no such thing as one size fits all. Blanket statements most often reveal the holes in the blanket before they begin to cover all aspects. Because human abilities & psyche's are so extraordinarily different one must determine what is best for self under all imaginable
circumstances. Self defense is a complex matter of armament, training & psychology.

The first part is to be able in willingness, that all the psychology of 'Should I and would I?' is fully settled beforehand. The second is suitable armament, with that as readily available as the person wants it to be. The third is frequent training, so that actions of use are skillfully automatic, not semi-automatic. The fourth, after the first three, is to be observant in all situations, to remove factors of surprise and unpreparedness. The fifth is ongoing adaptability to changing circumstances. The sixth is to mold these into an enjoyable lifestyle not overwhelmed or obsessed with matters of personal defense, yet continuously ready, willing & able to take care of business regardless of the customer.

That is, it should be a matter of sober, rational and total preparedness causing peace of mind and continuous safety to the best of one's ability, rather than an obssession, or paranoia or a hero syndrome. This I've stated isn't meant to imply that anyone here is laboring under those last three delusions, but is simply my view on the way of it. Our ability to defend ourselves, should the need arise, should not entirely overthrow or even significantly alter the normal enjoyment of life in all its moments.

Some folks can draw - slam in a mag - rack the slide - acquire their target - shoot dead-center quicker than I can draw, thumb off a safety and fire on target, so it's different strokes for different folks, according to circumstances.
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  #10  
Old 04-07-2011, 6:36 AM
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revolvers are simple
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Old 04-07-2011, 6:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogervzv View Post
Nonsense. This may be true for cops cruising South-Central LA. It may be true for our soldiers in Iraq. It is not true for most ordinary armed citizens.
The one time I had need for my gun to confront an intruder, I racked the slide to load the round and went to work. No problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogervzv View Post
People who lose their cool under pressure to the extent that they cannot rack a slide to load a round are people who cannot be trusted to walk around with a round chambered.

And we have all seen that thread where the gentleman shot himself in the drive-thru with his holstered weapon. I'm guessing it was a Glock that did not even have a slide safety. And he's carrying it around loaded in a drive thru. Great.

Epic FAIL.
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  #12  
Old 04-07-2011, 6:54 AM
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revolvers are simple
Exactly!
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  #13  
Old 04-07-2011, 7:26 AM
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To each and everyone in this thread:

Have any of you ever had to pull your weapon?
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  #14  
Old 04-07-2011, 7:32 AM
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It's not totally clear what happened, except that he did not have is gun on him, had to go to the counter and make it ready, whether it was ready or not already, and is facing the wrong direction. He was not experienced with that weapon, and clearly had no weapon retention training. Fortunately the BG(s) didn't get good hits either. Actually he would have better off with an edged weapon (and training).

But, loading Israel style doesn't have to be slow, you need to know how to do it, and do it quickly. There is no substitute for speed and accuracy. I am not saying this is faster that running a loaded gun, however there are many competitors who can rack load it, put 2 holes in center mass at 10 yards before the untrained shooter even touches his gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqyxP...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7stL...eature=related
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  #15  
Old 04-07-2011, 7:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogervzv View Post
Nonsense. This may be true for cops cruising South-Central LA. It may be true for our soldiers in Iraq. It is not true for most ordinary armed citizens.
The one time I had need for my gun to confront an intruder, I racked the slide to load the round and went to work. No problem.
Glad you're okay but your sample size is quite small.
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  #16  
Old 04-07-2011, 7:45 AM
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Did he die?
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  #17  
Old 04-07-2011, 7:46 AM
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Highlander, those video's are cool. I wonder if they had to install weaker springs to be able to do that?
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  #18  
Old 04-07-2011, 7:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogervzv View Post
Nonsense. This may be true for cops cruising South-Central LA. It may be true for our soldiers in Iraq. It is not true for most ordinary armed citizens.
The one time I had need for my gun to confront an intruder, I racked the slide to load the round and went to work. No problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogervzv View Post
People who lose their cool under pressure to the extent that they cannot rack a slide to load a round are people who cannot be trusted to walk around with a round chambered.

And we have all seen that thread where the gentleman shot himself in the drive-thru with his holstered weapon. I'm guessing it was a Glock that did not even have a slide safety. And he's carrying it around loaded in a drive thru. Great.

Holy Trolltastic!!!
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  #19  
Old 04-07-2011, 7:55 AM
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And we have all seen that thread where the gentleman shot himself in the drive-thru with his holstered weapon

Yes it was a Glock, but not a gun problem, it was a holster problem, which is a shooter problem.
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  #20  
Old 04-07-2011, 8:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW67 View Post
To each and everyone in this thread:

Have any of you ever had to pull your weapon?
I once had a dumba** is the sites of my rifle. I heard a lot of banging and yelling at my neighbors house one night at his back door. Got up and looked out the window and this guy was trying to get in. The neighbor was yelling and holding the door from the inside to keep it closed. I had this guy lined up with a angle shot if I needed to. Luckily the guy gave up and wondered down the road. He never knew I was there and what happen to him I don't know. Just glad he went away.
Kinda freaky when I think about it.
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Old 04-07-2011, 8:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW67 View Post
To each and everyone in this thread:

Have any of you ever had to pull your weapon?

yes
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  #22  
Old 04-07-2011, 8:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingCode3 View Post
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=086_1260862712

Watch the video. A unloaded gun will do you NO GOOD when you NEED IT. Without a round in the chamber you are carrying a unloaded gun. To do otherwise would be to carry a paperweight.

Defensive shootings happen in seconds, you most likely will NOT have time to rack the slide or you remember to rack the slide.
So am I to understand that an LEO on CGN just said I sould carry my gun loaded???
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Old 04-07-2011, 8:17 AM
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^^^^
with ccw you can.
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Old 04-07-2011, 8:19 AM
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I've had to pull my weapon and there was no round in chamber. It was at a residence so circumstances were different. Out and about it would be more effective to have one in the chamber, but regardless of carry, training and practice are required
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Old 04-07-2011, 8:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Which Way Out View Post
I once had a dumba** is the sites of my rifle. I heard a lot of banging and yelling at my neighbors house one night at his back door. Got up and looked out the window and this guy was trying to get in. The neighbor was yelling and holding the door from the inside to keep it closed. I had this guy lined up with a angle shot if I needed to. Luckily the guy gave up and wondered down the road. He never knew I was there and what happen to him I don't know. Just glad he went away.
Kinda freaky when I think about it.
Exactly...People talk about how they would do this or that if a certain situation comes up. But, until you're actually in that situation, I doubt anyone knows how they are going to react.
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Old 04-07-2011, 8:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW67 View Post
To each and everyone in this thread:

Have any of you ever had to pull your weapon?
Yes, twice.

Never had to fire though. The crackheads I encountered were rather submissive.
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Old 04-07-2011, 8:47 AM
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An unloaded gun is as useful as a football bat
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  #28  
Old 04-07-2011, 8:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaLuv View Post
^^^^
with ccw you can.
I wasn't talking about having any permit...

I'm just glad I'm intelligent enough to know that even if he did say " go ahead and carry your weapon loaded without a permit" doesn't mean that I can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW67 View Post
Exactly...People talk about how they would do this or that if a certain situation comes up. But, until you're actually in that situation, I doubt anyone knows how they are going to react.
I'm from Oakland, where people have lots of chances to train in situations like those...nothin like live fire to get the adrenaline pumping...
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  #29  
Old 04-07-2011, 8:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDW67 View Post
To each and everyone in this thread:

Have any of you ever had to pull your weapon?
In the Marine Corps, yes I did, and took return fire as well....and this was a "peace time" mission. The fact is an unloaded weapon is not a weapon and leaves someone wide open to a first strike...which is why I wouldn't open carry...someone like that is a sitting duck for bad guys...I'd much rather CCW and bad guys think I'm a victim...element of suprise would be on my side...however, in that video, the perps seemed to know the target was armed and shot him immediately...and when that happens, adrenaline is up and we're ALL at 50% capacity and he had to targets with guns...bad situation no matter what, but if he had a round chambered, he could've gotten a round or two off and maybe got the perps instead of them taking his gun away...or they may have continued firing..not exactly a win-win for anyone...either way, he was going to get shot in that scenario.
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Old 04-07-2011, 8:51 AM
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Epic FAIL.
seriously. who's side is this guy on?
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Old 04-07-2011, 8:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunktank View Post
I've had to pull my weapon and there was no round in chamber. It was at a residence so circumstances were different. Out and about it would be more effective to have one in the chamber, but regardless of carry, training and practice are required
Agreed 100%. we need to train regularly for muscle memory, because adrenaline and shock has a way of messing up logic so we have to rely on learned response.
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Old 04-07-2011, 8:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksmash01 View Post
I wasn't talking about having any permit...

I'm just glad I'm intelligent enough to know that even if he did say " go ahead and carry your weapon loaded without a permit" doesn't mean that I can.




I'm from Oakland, where people have lots of chances to train in situations like those...nothin like live fire to get the adrenaline pumping...
Didnt know that you were not.
Oh either way, UOC is pointless because some guy can just whoop your *** with a stick and steal your expensive belt accesory.
Thats why I wouldnt carry my gun in public at all.

Diclaimer:
Although if I lived in a rough part of town, I would carry my gun loaded and safety's off at my own place/work if permitted.
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  #33  
Old 04-07-2011, 9:01 AM
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Wow
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  #34  
Old 04-07-2011, 9:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit 1 View Post
There's no such thing as one size fits all. Blanket statements most often reveal the holes in the blanket before they begin to cover all aspects. Because human abilities & psyche's are so extraordinarily different one must determine what is best for self under all imaginable
circumstances. Self defense is a complex matter of armament, training & psychology.

The first part is to be able in willingness, that all the psychology of 'Should I and would I?' is fully settled beforehand. The second is suitable armament, with that as readily available as the person wants it to be. The third is frequent training, so that actions of use are skillfully automatic, not semi-automatic. The fourth, after the first three, is to be observant in all situations, to remove factors of surprise and unpreparedness. The fifth is ongoing adaptability to changing circumstances. The sixth is to mold these into an enjoyable lifestyle not overwhelmed or obsessed with matters of personal defense, yet continuously ready, willing & able to take care of business regardless of the customer.

That is, it should be a matter of sober, rational and total preparedness causing peace of mind and continuous safety to the best of one's ability, rather than an obssession, or paranoia or a hero syndrome. This I've stated isn't meant to imply that anyone here is laboring under those last three delusions, but is simply my view on the way of it. Our ability to defend ourselves, should the need arise, should not entirely overthrow or even significantly alter the normal enjoyment of life in all its moments.

Some folks can draw - slam in a mag - rack the slide - acquire their target - shoot dead-center quicker than I can draw, thumb off a safety and fire on target, so it's different strokes for different folks, according to circumstances.
Smartest comments so far. Sadly, many - perhaps some here in this thread - cannot see sense when they encounter it.

I choose to carry my handgun chambered, with the safety engaged, wherever it makes sense to me to do so . This is quite a bit of the time. I am not all ashamed to say that I also carry un-chambered as I see fit, and as I believe the circumstances reasonably dictate. Similary, there are circumstances where it's in a bag without a mag inserted. My general position is that one should carry to the maximum condition of readiness they require to insure an effective use of the weapon, given the circumstances and their level of training. Some people would be foolish to carry cocked-n-locked, others unwise to ever be anything else.

I train often enough alongside shooters of all kinds of differing backgrounds (including SWAT cops and SF-types) to know that an un-chambered handgun in not necessarily a liability. I've often drawn to a "click" (owing to a dummy-round randomly loaded in the mag) during some exercise. I've been both surprised and delighted to learn that Draw-Click-Tap-Rack-Bang can happen very quickly with practice ... even when you aren't expecting it ... and I've completed my round of accurate shots well ahead of those trained professionals with perfectly functioning guns. My shot timer tells me that the difference between Draw-Bang and Draw-Rack-Bang is hundredths of a second. Tell me that an "unloaded gun is useless", and I'll laugh in your silly, silly face.
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  #35  
Old 04-07-2011, 9:13 AM
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Originally Posted by PandaLuv View Post
Didnt know that you were not.
Oh either way, UOC is pointless because some guy can just whoop your *** with a stick and steal your expensive belt accesory.
Thats why I wouldnt carry my gun in public at all.

Diclaimer:
Although if I lived in a rough part of town, I would carry my gun loaded and safety's off at my own place/work if permitted.
I wasn't talking about UOC either.....

Basically, I was inferring that RollingCode3 was advocating Permitless Loaded Carry(either concealed or not)......it was a joke.

I also think UOC is dumb, and only for macho wanna be mall ninjas. It's sorta like a book club for guys with guns, to me. I've never seen anyone open carry in an area where their safety was compromised, only in areas that scare soccer moms.

On the flipside, it sucks that the state would relegate our rights to such a condition.

I do carry a pistol loaded at home. I'm not permitted to do so anywhere else.
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Old 04-07-2011, 9:14 AM
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To each and everyone in this thread:

Have any of you ever had to pull your weapon?


Once or twice in Afghanistan...
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Old 04-07-2011, 9:16 AM
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MHogxtz I wonder if they had to install weaker springs to be able to do that?

I thought that at first, but had one of the local Grand Masters do it on my stock G17, yea, pretty amazing. there is another one where an IPSC guy does a sub 1 load (from the belt) and put 2 in the A zone at 7 yards with an STI Open gun.
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Old 04-07-2011, 9:16 AM
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I gotta new style of loading a gun I gotta practice now. Haha. Love those reloads.
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Old 04-07-2011, 9:16 AM
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I noticed the people doing the inertia cocking gimmick weren't being shot at.


Not that I'm any real authority on this, but my educated guess is that such cocking in a defensive situation might be more of a liability. It seems kinda dumb to do this considering that one can safely carry one in the pipe with most modern handguns.
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Old 04-07-2011, 9:18 AM
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I wasn't talking about UOC either.....

Basically, I was inferring that RollingCode3 was advocating Permitless Loaded Carry(either concealed or not)......it was a joke.

I also think UOC is dumb, and only for macho wanna be mall ninjas. It's sorta like a book club for guys with guns, to me. I've never seen anyone open carry in an area where their safety was compromised, only in areas that scare soccer moms.

On the flipside, it sucks that the state would relegate our rights to such a condition.

I do carry a pistol loaded at home. I'm not permitted to do so anywhere else.
Oh ok.

I can definitely agree on with the rest of what you just said.
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