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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #481  
Old 02-07-2012, 7:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
Unless you directly and knowingly assisted him/her with breaking clear statutory law, there wouldn't be a reason to distrust you.
But how would you know...???

The problem with your logic, is that you are blaming the entire office. Not everyone in the office is guilty of whatever crime you're accusing them of.

Until you get all the names and all of the "crimes" that they have committed against you, you're just shotgun blaming everyone.

Now that we have completely gone off track of what I was originally talking about, regarding how and why I would do certain things involving an LTC, I will leave you to your prejudices and say, good day
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Accuracy is not always the rifle, its the nut behind the stock.
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  #482  
Old 02-07-2012, 8:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Blu View Post
But how would you know...???

The problem with your logic, is that you are blaming the entire office. Not everyone in the office is guilty of whatever crime you're accusing them of.

Until you get all the names and all of the "crimes" that they have committed against you, you're just shotgun blaming everyone.

Now that we have completely gone off track of what I was originally talking about, regarding how and why I would do certain things involving an LTC, I will leave you to your prejudices and say, good day
The problem is that in your outrage, you forget I was speaking of the high level executives. Government official to me is not the street deputy. The street deputy didn't decide to not accept the apps. The executive office of the sheriff did. You don't blame the infantry for the secretary of defense's decision....
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  #483  
Old 02-07-2012, 8:03 AM
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I apologize to CGF and company, for the rant that has taken place here.
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Originally Posted by 0321jarhead View Post
Accuracy is not always the rifle, its the nut behind the stock.
"Use the shiny toys when you have them, but never, ever forget how to do it by hand." --- SGT. David Sillick A. Co. 4-64 AR, 3ID

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  #484  
Old 02-14-2012, 8:29 PM
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And Scocca v. Smith is stayed for 6 months: http://www.archive.org/download/gov....38467.37.0.pdf

Well, at least we warned the court what we'd do next. This will get interesting.

-Gene
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  #485  
Old 02-14-2012, 8:30 PM
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And Scocca v. Smith is stayed for 6 months: http://www.archive.org/download/gov....38467.37.0.pdf

Well, at least we warned the court what we'd do next. This will get interesting.

-Gene
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  #486  
Old 02-14-2012, 8:46 PM
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Ahh dammit! That order is so full of bull sh$% that the paper is turning brown!

Especially “A stay should not be granted unless it appears likely the other proceedings will be concluded within a reasonable time in relation to the
urgency of the claims presented to the court.”

Nordyke... concluded within a reasonable time???????? WTF!!!

And this: "Here, neither MS nor CGF has made any allegation in the complaint that their members would have standing to sue in their own right. Furthermore, in their response to the order to show cause, the organizations indicate that they “re prepared to have some of their individual members
seek new licenses.” Pls.’ Resp. at 6. This suggests that, at present, none of their members has standing."


Gene, I am ready to go. Contact me to file my LTC application for prompt rejection by Smith!

Oh yeah, did you ever get that transcript of the MTD hearing?
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  #487  
Old 02-14-2012, 8:49 PM
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After rereading and considering the other cases stayed for Nordyke, it is staggering how all of our eggs for carry rights in CA seem to be in the Nordyke basket!
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  #488  
Old 02-14-2012, 8:50 PM
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Time to apply in Santa Clara?

C'mooooooooooooooon Nordyke!
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  #489  
Old 02-14-2012, 8:54 PM
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If you haven't already, please make sure to sign up to be a LTC applicant volunteer here: http://calgunsfoundation.org/get-inv...volunteer.html.

I'll be in touch via email when it's time. My email will include very specific instructions; please don't make any assumptions and act outside of those instructions for the purposes of our efforts.

-Brandon
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  #490  
Old 02-14-2012, 8:56 PM
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And to play on an old phrase, "one day, this will be twenty Nordykes ago."

-Brandon
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  #491  
Old 02-14-2012, 9:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
If you haven't already, please make sure to sign up to be a LTC applicant volunteer here: http://calgunsfoundation.org/get-inv...volunteer.html.

I'll be in touch via email when it's time. My email will include very specific instructions; please don't make any assumptions and act outside of those instructions for the purposes of our efforts.

-Brandon
THIS!!! The war is not one by an individual battle.. There is no "I" in team.. We must pool together our resources and stick to the plan.. For it is a WINNING plan!!
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  #492  
Old 02-14-2012, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Blu View Post
I apologize to CGF and company, for the rant that has taken place here.
I trust you, and I know what you are saying. I know GP personally, and I do not think that you two are even adverse.

You are speaking from kind of inside the system, and we hear you - but I think that the strategy people already thought through that issue. Just like we maybe need to trust you a little more, you just need to trust us a little more.

The people in our coalition are good people. And by good people, I mean MORALLY good people. I don't know how to say it properly. We ARE the good guys, and we DO work from a spirit of love, and not hate or fear. We work with everyone here in Ca, and with the national groups. The group here is good at doing all of this, and YOU are part of it.

We all are, and we all need to remember that we ARE on the same team. Sometimes we forget, and I am the worst!!!

OK, rant off - and that wasn't really a rant, just an observation, and a show of respect, for ALL of us.
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  #493  
Old 02-14-2012, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
And to play on an old phrase, "one day, this will be twenty Nordykes ago."

-Brandon

This^^^. Because you just gotta believe.
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  #494  
Old 02-15-2012, 4:55 AM
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This is very promising, and implies that we seriously lucked out here.

I'll take all the luck I can get.
And once again I've been proven wrong.

This is becoming a trend. Whenever I get even slightly optimistic about something, my optimism is quickly and decisively shown to be wishful thinking.


Enough is enough. I'm not going to make that mistake again.
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The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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  #495  
Old 02-15-2012, 5:15 AM
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kcbrown -- The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. Consider very carefully what that means for your oath to uphold the Constitution.
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  #496  
Old 02-15-2012, 7:38 AM
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Enough is enough. I'm not going to make that mistake again.
Tom said, optimistically.
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  #497  
Old 02-15-2012, 8:18 AM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
And Scocca v. Smith is stayed for 6 months: http://www.archive.org/download/gov....38467.37.0.pdf

Well, at least we warned the court what we'd do next. This will get interesting.

-Gene
I read the ORDER.

The court made a typo on page 6. I added the bold word.
Quote:
Finally, to the extent Plaintiffs now argue that Defendants are violating California law by stopping the issuance of licenses to carry concealed weapons, see Pls.’ Resp. at 7 (citing Salute v. Pitchess, 61 Cal. App. 3d 557 (1976)), the Court does NOT see how that argument has any real impact on this case and on Mr. Scocca’s claim in particular.
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  #498  
Old 02-15-2012, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
And Scocca v. Smith is stayed for 6 months: http://www.archive.org/download/gov....38467.37.0.pdf

Well, at least we warned the court what we'd do next. This will get interesting.

-Gene
God......damnit!!!!!

Well, at least this gives me time to save up for what I want to carry. I would have gotten it already, if it weren't for those damned meddling bike repairs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0321jarhead View Post
Accuracy is not always the rifle, its the nut behind the stock.
"Use the shiny toys when you have them, but never, ever forget how to do it by hand." --- SGT. David Sillick A. Co. 4-64 AR, 3ID

Everything is METTT-C
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  #499  
Old 02-15-2012, 9:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
And Scocca v. Smith is stayed for 6 months: http://www.archive.org/download/gov....38467.37.0.pdf

Well, at least we warned the court what we'd do next. This will get interesting.

-Gene


Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
If you haven't already, please make sure to sign up to be a LTC applicant volunteer here: http://calgunsfoundation.org/get-inv...volunteer.html.

I'll be in touch via email when it's time. My email will include very specific instructions; please don't make any assumptions and act outside of those instructions for the purposes of our efforts.

-Brandon
Brandon,

I’m more than happy to volunteer but I fear I may not be the best “plaintiff” for a suit that could make or break (in some significant way) our LTC fight. Should I inquire with you via PM about helping?
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  #500  
Old 02-15-2012, 10:18 AM
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Brandon,

I’m more than happy to volunteer but I fear I may not be the best “plaintiff” for a suit that could make or break (in some significant way) our LTC fight. Should I inquire with you via PM about helping?
I **hate** PMs (and generally only read them monthly or so, or when I have time - which is not often).

Email me.

-Brandon
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  #501  
Old 02-15-2012, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
Unless you directly and knowingly assisted him/her with breaking clear statutory law, there wouldn't be a reason to distrust you.
Heh. Not having a reason to distrust someone doesn't mean you have a reason to trust them either.

Fair's fair and all that.
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  #502  
Old 02-15-2012, 11:31 AM
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Email me.

-Brandon
Sent.
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  #503  
Old 02-15-2012, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
And Scocca v. Smith is stayed for 6 months: http://www.archive.org/download/gov....38467.37.0.pdf

Well, at least we warned the court what we'd do next. This will get interesting.

-Gene
What exactly happens next?
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  #504  
Old 02-15-2012, 5:06 PM
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Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
What exactly happens next?
From the "Show Cause" Order:

The CALGUNS FOUNDATION, INC., and MADISON SOCIETY, INC.,
plaintiffs are prepared to have some of their individual members seek new
licenses from SHERIFF SMITH that match the concessions made by County
Counsel during oral argument. (e.g., they carry large amounts of cash, they
conduct investigations, engage in commerce of a sensitive nature, etc...) Of
course that assumes that SHERIFF SMITH will process the applications.

Additionally, it has come to the attention of all the Plaintiffs that SHERIFF
SMITH may be in violation of her duties under Salute v. Pitchess, 61 Cal.
App. 3d 557 (1976). That case stands for the proposition that Sheriffs can
not refuse to process applications for concealed carry licenses. In an article
printed in the San Jose Mercury News on December 11, 2011, about this very
case, Deputy County Counsel Cheryl Stevens said: “Smith stopped issuing
permits in the early months of this year.” The articles intimates that SMITH
is reviewing her policies regarding carry licences. But this is just another
lawless violation of her duties under California law. SHERIFF SMITH does
not have the power under state law to unilaterally decide to stop issuing
permits in her county because a lawsuit is pending.
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  #505  
Old 02-15-2012, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
From the "Show Cause" Order:

The CALGUNS FOUNDATION, INC., and MADISON SOCIETY, INC., plaintiffs are prepared to have some of their individual members seek new licenses from SHERIFF SMITH that match the concessions made by County Counsel during oral argument. (e.g., they carry large amounts of cash, they conduct investigations, engage in commerce of a sensitive nature, etc...) Of course that assumes that SHERIFF SMITH will process the applications.
I was not able to attend the initial MTD hearing where these criteria were given. What were the the additional concessions (the etc. part)? Maybe other Santa Clara County Calgunners meet the conditions of this list. Let us know and we can let the CGF know if we can help the cause.

Speaking for myself, I realize this isn't a quick route to a LTC. I would expect to be rejected and then participate with the CGF in additional legal action against the Sheriff. And yes, I have already signed up as a LTC applicant volunteer.
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  #506  
Old 02-15-2012, 5:19 PM
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Sheriff Smith has painted herself into a corner, it seems.
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  #507  
Old 02-15-2012, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
And Scocca v. Smith is stayed for 6 months....
We really need a smilie that eats a sandwich then flops on his side on a pillow and takes a nap (incl "Zzzz" coming out of his mouth).

Recently I read how the judge on the Prop 187 lawsuit sat on it for something like 3 years so that by the time she released her opinion, Gov. Wilson would soon be replaced by Gray Davis who dropped Wilson's appeal to the 9th Circuit....

It reminded me of what we're going thru, but all around the nation.
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Supporting CGF at the expense of supporting NRA is wildly stupid. . . .

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  #508  
Old 02-16-2012, 1:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
From the "Show Cause" Order:

The CALGUNS FOUNDATION, INC., and MADISON SOCIETY, INC.,
plaintiffs are prepared to have some of their individual members seek new
licenses from SHERIFF SMITH that match the concessions made by County
Counsel during oral argument. (e.g., they carry large amounts of cash, they
conduct investigations, engage in commerce of a sensitive nature, etc...) Of
course that assumes that SHERIFF SMITH will process the applications.

Additionally, it has come to the attention of all the Plaintiffs that SHERIFF
SMITH may be in violation of her duties under Salute v. Pitchess, 61 Cal.
App. 3d 557 (1976). That case stands for the proposition that Sheriffs can
not refuse to process applications for concealed carry licenses. In an article
printed in the San Jose Mercury News on December 11, 2011, about this very
case, Deputy County Counsel Cheryl Stevens said: “Smith stopped issuing
permits in the early months of this year.” The articles intimates that SMITH
is reviewing her policies regarding carry licences. But this is just another
lawless violation of her duties under California law. SHERIFF SMITH does
not have the power under state law to unilaterally decide to stop issuing
permits in her county because a lawsuit is pending.
So if the flood of applications happens, then how would we know whether the sheriff is sitting on the applications or just slowly processing them? Is there a statutory time frame for issuance?
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  #509  
Old 02-16-2012, 9:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
So if the flood of applications happens, then how would we know whether the sheriff is sitting on the applications or just slowly processing them? Is there a statutory time frame for issuance?
http://calgunsfoundation.org/resourc...y/9-carry.html

-Brandon
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  #510  
Old 02-16-2012, 10:18 AM
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If you haven't already, please make sure to sign up to be a LTC applicant volunteer here: http://calgunsfoundation.org/get-inv...volunteer.html.

I'll be in touch via email when it's time. My email will include very specific instructions; please don't make any assumptions and act outside of those instructions for the purposes of our efforts.

-Brandon
If we have signed up already, is it counter productive to "make sure" and sign up again?
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  #511  
Old 02-16-2012, 11:03 AM
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If we have signed up already, is it counter productive to "make sure" and sign up again?
Nope. I can (and do) run filters easily enough.

-Brandon
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  #512  
Old 02-16-2012, 11:28 AM
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Nope. I can (and do) run filters easily enough.

-Brandon
I couldn't remember if I ever signed up for that (but I don't think I ever did.) So I just threw my hat into the ring.

I've been wanting to start collecting my rejections from the Sheriff and my city police department, so I can officially say my 2A rights are being suppressed by high ranking officials from the executive branch, but I've been holding off in the hopes that my rejections can somehow be turned into a tactical advantage.

Let me know when you want me to apply, and I'll do so with gleeful abandon (although no black western hats will be worn during my application period, nor will I speak of myself in third person).
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by bulgron View Post
Let me know when you want me to apply, and I'll do so with gleeful abandon (although no black western hats will be worn during my application period, nor will I speak of myself in third person).


Thanks for the much-appreciated chuckle.

I will be in touch.

-Brandon
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Old 02-16-2012, 7:15 PM
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I would also jump on the let's get denied to have standing boat. I own a check cashing business in Santa Clara County and have all ready been given the run around. Oh, we don't have any apps to fill out, Let me put you on hold: 30 minutes went by before I hung up. I'll take a message and so and so will call you back. That was 2004 and I still haven't gotten that phone call.

Another check casher was murdered at a branch of the bank I used to frequent to pick up cash. For some reason, I go to a different branch these days...
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Old 02-16-2012, 7:15 PM
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Whoa, double post.




I signed up for the volunteer page and made sure to include my screen name.

Last edited by Spaceghost; 02-17-2012 at 2:28 PM..
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Old 02-16-2012, 7:48 PM
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I would also jump on the let's get denied to have standing boat. I own a check cashing business in Santa Clara County and have all ready been given the run around. Oh, we don't have any apps to fill out, Let me put you on hold: 30 minutes went by before I hung up. I'll take a message and so and so will call you back. That was 2004 and I still haven't gotten that phone call.

Another check casher was murdered at a branch of the bank I used to frequent to pick up cash. For some reason, I go to a different branch these days...
Make sure you note that when you sign up on the volunteer page (if you haven't already).

-Brandon
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Old 02-17-2012, 2:56 PM
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Do we know what is sufficient cause to get involved in this initiative ?
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Old 02-17-2012, 3:10 PM
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Do we know what is sufficient cause to get involved in this initiative ?
Sign up at the link I posted earlier; add as much detail about your specific facts as you are willing. I will reach out with specific instructions once we have everything in order to proceed.

-Brandon
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Old 02-17-2012, 3:38 PM
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If you haven't already, please make sure to sign up to be a LTC applicant volunteer here: http://calgunsfoundation.org/get-inv...volunteer.html.

I'll be in touch via email when it's time. My email will include very specific instructions; please don't make any assumptions and act outside of those instructions for the purposes of our efforts.

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This may be a dumb question that I should know the answer to but....

I'm willing to volunteer provided there is some confidence that a denial (a certainty) will not impact future applications (once we win).
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Old 02-17-2012, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
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This may be a dumb question that I should know the answer to but....

I'm willing to volunteer provided there is some confidence that a denial (a certainty) will not impact future applications (once we win).
Depends on how much confidence you need.

If a denial is for cause - felony, that kind of thing - then it certainly will impact future apps.

Denial for 'you do not have good cause', very probably not; either you may have a different 'good cause' on re-application, or different things may be accepted as 'good cause'.
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