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  #1  
Old 03-24-2011, 8:05 AM
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Default Question about military using Hi Cap Magazines...

Hello - I have a question. I have a buddy that is in the military, he's only been in CA for a few years. While at the range, a LEO told him it was illegal for him to have a hi cap magazine. In fact, the LEO said he could arrest him for felony possession. Is this true? I thought as long as you are LEO or ACTIVE duty in the military, then it is legal/ok for you to possess and use hi cap. magazines? Thanks for any insight.

John
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Old 03-24-2011, 8:16 AM
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It is legal for anybody to possess "Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Devices." There is no law against possession.
Importing them into the state is illegal. Your buddy in the military likely possesses 30 round magazines that were issued for his M16. They are legal to possess.
Usage can also get some people in trouble. They may not be legal to use for several reasons. If he has an evil featured semi automatic rifle with a magazine lock, he may not use a magazine more than 10 rounds.
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Old 03-24-2011, 8:16 AM
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Even RESERVES are issued standard capacity magazines (30rd M16, 15rd M9).

We're told to take them home with the rest of our issue gear. And we're told that if we're bothered by LEO, (such as at the range) that we need to show them our Military ID.

As far as the laws in the state of california? I've never heard of a military exemption for reserves, or any military member to posses "post ban" dated "high cap" mags.
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Old 03-24-2011, 8:31 AM
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Originally Posted by AaronHorrocks View Post
Even RESERVES are issued standard capacity magazines (30rd M16, 15rd M9).

We're told to take them home with the rest of our issue gear. And we're told that if we're bothered by LEO, (such as at the range) that we need to show them our Military ID.

As far as the laws in the state of california? I've never heard of a military exemption for reserves, or any military member to posses "post ban" dated "high cap" mags.
There is no exemption because there is no law regarding the possession of "post ban" dated "high cap" mags. The specific magazine laws restrict manufacture, importation, sale, giving, and other methods of distribution. The AW laws restrict the use of "Hi-Caps" in fixed magazine rifles. Possession is not illegal.
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Last edited by rromeo; 03-24-2011 at 8:33 AM..
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:25 AM
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To clarify - they're 15rd for pistols. So if it is not illegal to possess hi cap mags, and they're issued to him, why would LEO bust his balls for it?

Last edited by TitanCi; 03-24-2011 at 10:31 AM..
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:00 PM
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To clarify - they're 15rd for pistols. So if it is not illegal to possess hi cap mags, and they're issued to him, why would LEO bust his balls for it?
Because the cop doesn't know the law and/or likes flexing his badge.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rromeo View Post
There is no exemption because there is no law regarding the possession of "post ban" dated "high cap" mags. The specific magazine laws restrict manufacture, importation, sale, giving, and other methods of distribution. The AW laws restrict the use of "Hi-Caps" in fixed magazine rifles. Possession is not illegal.
Yeah, I was given mags by the Marine Corp. Which has me a bit concerned too.

And here's an interesting "what if". What if they're stolen from me while at my house or in storage? By military standards, I have to pay for new ones. But by state law, I can't buy them...
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronHorrocks View Post
Yeah, I was given mags by the Marine Corp. Which has me a bit concerned too.

And here's an interesting "what if". What if they're stolen from me while at my house or in storage? By military standards, I have to pay for new ones. But by state law, I can't buy them...
If the State wants to prosecute USMC for 'selling' you replacements for your issue equipment, I say let'em, and good luck with that.

I'd buy a ticket.
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Old 03-24-2011, 2:35 PM
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I was thinking more along the lines of:

"I can't buy replacement mags, SGT, it's illegal in california"


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Today, they walk among us. They’re on the television, they write for the newspapers, they have infiltrated the schools, the political system, and law enforcement. They call themselves Liberals.
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Old 03-24-2011, 2:46 PM
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Improvise, Adapt, Overcome...
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Old 03-24-2011, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rromeo View Post
Because the cop doesn't know the law and/or likes flexing his badge.
Could very well be true.

Did your buddy tell the LEO that he is in the military?
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Old 03-25-2011, 8:45 PM
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Military can use them and it's not illegal for him to possess if he is using it in the course of his duties. Here is the tricky part though, although mere possession is not illegal and he is within his rights to have them as a member of the military, the question is now, he has been given postban magazines which are only allowed while he is working in his military capacity.

He cannot buy new ones and if he is using them at a range, which is presumptively not within his duties as a military member, can he claim the exception that he is still allowed to use the magazines which are postban?

I'm guessing it's like us LE when we get our magazines and continue to use them when we separate or retire. There should be no problems with your friend using them at a range as long as he came into possession of them legally, even if they are postban.

Besides, any LEO that harassed a military man for this type of crap needs to find something else to do with his time.
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Old 03-25-2011, 9:32 PM
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Military can use them and it's not illegal for him to possess if he is using it in the course of his duties. Here is the tricky part though, although mere possession is not illegal and he is within his rights to have them as a member of the military, the question is now, he has been given postban magazines which are only allowed while he is working in his military capacity.

He cannot buy new ones and if he is using them at a range, which is presumptively not within his duties as a military member, can he claim the exception that he is still allowed to use the magazines which are postban?

I'm guessing it's like us LE when we get our magazines and continue to use them when we separate or retire. There should be no problems with your friend using them at a range as long as he came into possession of them legally, even if they are postban.

Besides, any LEO that harassed a military man for this type of crap needs to find something else to do with his time
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Agreed
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Old 03-26-2011, 8:16 AM
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I am personally embarrassed at all the tales of LEO's demonstrating such ignorance when it comes to California gun laws. I am way too busy looking for gangsters and thugs to go harassing military folks and responsible gun owners. Especially Calgunners!
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Old 03-27-2011, 4:02 PM
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POST requires 4 hours of training in the basic academy on firearms laws.

POST requires 24 hours of training in the basic academy on Cultural Diversity.

Here is your problem.
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Old 03-27-2011, 8:30 PM
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POST requires 4 hours of training in the basic academy on firearms laws.

POST requires 24 hours of training in the basic academy on Cultural Diversity.

Here is your problem.
I think when I went through it was called cultural sensitivity and it was only 1 day but it was a refresher in service course for us old-timers who didn't have to sit through that tripe the first time in the academy back when the curriculum actually concentrated on police issues.
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Old 03-27-2011, 9:12 PM
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Possession=legal

Manufacture, importation, sale, etc. = illegal

Use of greater than 10 round magazine in semi-auto with "evil features" = illegal

(above mentioned assumes "outside the scope and course of duties"... e.g. - on liberty, leave, etc.)

Great thread called "Magazines: all the answers you need" found here:http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=387409
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Old 03-28-2011, 7:31 AM
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What about getting them while on base at Nellis (NV) and then coming to LA with them while off duty on liberty with buddies but under orders of the CO to have them with you? That would seem to fit the importation part.

I think there is a part that exempts military if they are actually being moved here permanently as a station transfer and that's not importation but not sure if that applies only to issued weapons, personal weapons, both, neither, or if the exemption even exists at all.
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Old 04-28-2011, 5:28 PM
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Yeah I read and says withing the scope of their duties, I personally think for reservists with a high tempo of deplyments,LEO should understand reservists have only so limited days out of the year for target practice. So if a reservists and active duty member wants to take their hicaps mag for some target practice no harm done right, I am also not saying break other cal. gun laws but that mag one seems to be a little vague. Also if a commander says to their unit train more at home and prep up for a deployment, wouldn't that be considered scope of their duties to the Army?
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Old 04-29-2011, 3:59 AM
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You can possess whatever the Army issues you. You can use the magazines if you commander gives the okay. You cannot use large capacity magazines in a rifle with a mag lock.
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Old 04-29-2011, 12:54 PM
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you say 15 rounds, so I am assuming Beretta mags. If so, possession is no problem, and use is no problem, because there is no AW issue with using hicaps in handguns (excepting mag locked AR/AK pistols....keeping this constrained to standard handguns, the Beretta in particular).

That being said, the military expects us to train off duty as well (any body ever done a correspondence course or MCI?). The fact that you are training out of your own pocket, and having a good time while doing it have nothing to do with the legality of the situation.
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Old 04-29-2011, 5:01 PM
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Military base's are federal property. Therefor state laws are not applicable (for gun laws at least i'd assume?)
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:53 PM
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I WILL NOT harass military folks unless they are grossly in violation of something where I am compelled to take action.
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Old 04-30-2011, 12:04 AM
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so, just so we're clear, LEO has no business harassing ANYONE (who can legally use a firearm, of course) for using a high cap magazine in a weapon that does not carry restrictions on magazine capacity.

concur?
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Old 04-30-2011, 12:15 AM
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I wouldn't
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Old 04-30-2011, 12:35 AM
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Not unless said moron just said he just came back from Nevada with all these new )(standard cap) mags and here's the receipt. Then the LEO should harrass the person for general stupidity. Other than that, I'll concur
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Old 04-30-2011, 12:40 AM
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Spirit of the law there...
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Old 04-30-2011, 5:47 PM
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Not unless said moron just said he just came back from Nevada with all these new )(standard cap) mags and here's the receipt. Then the LEO should harrass the person for general stupidity.
Perhaps, but there are some out there who would tally a felony arrest stat for an unlawful importation assuming said moron who just came back from Nevada in possession of assembled standard caps and (foolishly) profers a sales receipt. DoJ firearms agents are known for it around the times of the Reno gun shows.

Not saying I'd do that, I'm just saying.

Breaking someone's nuts over possession of a magazine would be about 101st on my list of 100 things to do on a given day in the field.
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Old 05-02-2011, 5:49 PM
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If that ever did happen, that seems like it'd be a case of a few bad LEO's making the good ones (that'd be the majority) look really bad. What do other LEO's do when one of them does something not cool?
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Old 05-02-2011, 7:50 PM
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If that ever did happen, that seems like it'd be a case of a few bad LEO's making the good ones (that'd be the majority) look really bad. What do other LEO's do when one of them does something not cool?
Same thing anyone else does when they work with a douchebag. You tell them to cut it out and they ignore you, then you go on your own way and stay away from the douche who is going to get himself hurt and hopefully doesn't drag anyone else down with him.

Seriously... if I went to NV to pick up a bunch of regular cap mags, I would openly drive them over the state and claim exemption as a LEO to any DOJ agents who want to harass me... or are we not exempt from the importing laws either? I thought we were... oh heck, I am so confused... what to do... what to do?

Goddamn jackbooted thugs got me all confused and stuff! I gots my rights! Am I being detained?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I do not consent to any searches of my person or property!
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Old 05-02-2011, 8:04 PM
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If he was using the 30 round magazines in a rifle equipped with a bullet button then it would be illegal. Not making any assumptions but I see that all the time and some people aren't aware this is illegal, could this have possibly been the case?
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