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  #1  
Old 01-25-2012, 9:13 AM
Raptor3000 Raptor3000 is offline
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Default German Mauser K98 hardwood vs Laminate stock

Hi Guys,

Which stock is better on German Mauser K98? hard wood or laminate?

I mean which is more preferred by collectors.

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 01-25-2012, 9:15 AM
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laminate is less susceptible to moisture and is a bit stronger
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  #3  
Old 01-25-2012, 9:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor3000 View Post
I mean which is more preferred by collectors.
Hardwood is less common, but I would say collectors in general prefer the one that was on the rifle when it left the factory.
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  #4  
Old 01-25-2012, 9:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcon5 View Post
Hardwood is less common, but I would say collectors in general prefer the one that was on the rifle when it left the factory.
You mean collectors dont prefer hardwood much?

Thanks
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  #5  
Old 01-25-2012, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor3000 View Post
You mean collectors dont prefer hardwood much?

Thanks
I mean less K98s left the factory with Hardood than Laminated, and some collectors look for less common configurations.

But I would say hardwood vs laminated is generally not as important as the rarity of the codes and markings, and that the stock and handguard numbers match the rifle.
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Old 01-25-2012, 9:38 AM
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whats a good source to know about markings and codes?

thanks
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  #7  
Old 01-25-2012, 9:40 AM
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Here is a start, but I believe this info may be slightly dated.

http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/kodyen.html
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  #8  
Old 01-25-2012, 10:03 AM
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For collectors? The one that matches the rifle.

For shooters? Doesn't really matter, but laminate is technically better.
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  #9  
Old 01-25-2012, 10:06 AM
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the Germans switched from walnut stocks to laminated beech in 1939. after that year, it is very uncommon to find a walnut stock.

so hardwood stocks are less common, and on early and pre war rifles, that is more desirable for collectors.

Russian captures are a mix of parts and stocks so that doesn't matter, but if you have a rifle brought back by a veteran, it better have the right stock
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  #10  
Old 01-25-2012, 10:31 AM
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Collecting is like team sports.

There are folks that go for pre-war, mid-war, and late-war.

Go to gunboards and you'll see the research/discussion about the 98k.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor3000 View Post
Hi Guys,

Which stock is better on German Mauser K98? hard wood or laminate?

I mean which is more preferred by collectors.

Thanks in advance.
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  #11  
Old 01-25-2012, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauser98k View Post
the Germans switched from walnut stocks to laminated beech in 1939. after that year, it is very uncommon to find a walnut stock.

so hardwood stocks are less common, and on early and pre war rifles, that is more desirable for collectors.

Russian captures are a mix of parts and stocks so that doesn't matter, but if you have a rifle brought back by a veteran, it better have the right stock
I thought all those German laminate stocks were oak?
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  #12  
Old 01-25-2012, 3:40 PM
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Nope, Beech. They started using solid Beech stocks in 1917 on the GEW 98's because walnut was getting scarce.
In 1929 they started experimenting with Beech laminate stocks. The early laminates used a white glue that had problems coming apart with moisture. Someone here on the forum has a nice example they posted some pics of, and the first one I've ever seen. Not many survived the war.
The "red" color you see in the 98K stocks is the epoxy glue they changed to. In 1940 the red glue laminate stocks were the standard issue.
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  #13  
Old 01-25-2012, 6:30 PM
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Thanks, that's what I wanted to know.
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  #14  
Old 01-25-2012, 8:02 PM
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To me laminate looks better, but I prefer what ever the rifle ( receiver ) by manufacture and date that it should have on it, my K98 had a flat butt hardwood stock, but I swapped it out with a correct cupped butt laminate. Really doesn't matter since it's an RC but that's the way I roll.

Last edited by brianm767; 01-25-2012 at 8:04 PM..
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  #15  
Old 01-25-2012, 10:04 PM
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IMHO, the early war laminate, flat plate, and H-band combo + hood looks the coolest.
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  #16  
Old 01-26-2012, 8:04 AM
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^^

That sounds like the 98k that I used to have lol!
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  #17  
Old 01-26-2012, 9:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenSightsOnly View Post
^^

That sounds like the 98k that I used to have lol!
I was about to buy a 147 1940 Sauer actually, but then a K-31 for $120 less made its way into the picture. They brought me to the darkside, and they have cookies there.


If/when I do get a Mauser, I still want one to look like that!
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  #18  
Old 10-14-2012, 2:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
.... The early laminates used a white glue that had problems coming apart with moisture. The "red" color you see in the 98K stocks is the epoxy glue they changed to. In 1940 the red glue laminate stocks were the standard issue.
That's ***-backwards: white glue lams were a latewar expedient, & then only utilized by a couple armories. Red glue lams are the norm & vastly more common, first appearing in '38.
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  #19  
Old 10-14-2012, 7:39 PM
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Your reading comprehension is ***-backwards.
As I stated, white glue laminates predate red glue laminates by a decade. By 1940 both solid wood stocks, and white glue stocks were no longer produced, because all the factories had now gone to red glue laminate.
This was done because solid wood for the stocks was in short supply, laminates were stronger, and it was found that the white glue laminate stocks were prone to de-laminating. That's why early examples are so rare to come by.
Near the end of the war, our B-17's had severely damaged the German factories and railways, and the red epoxy glue was in short supply. The white glue was again pressed into service by the dou and bnz factories in limited numbers as a stopgap measure.
You will very rarely see one on a Russian Captured rifle, because the Russians knew of the problem too, and trash canned them during the re-arsenal process.
You will sometimes find them on post war French built Mausers, as they used up what they had on hand.
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  #20  
Old 10-15-2012, 6:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
.... white glue laminates predate red glue laminates by a decade. By 1940 both solid wood stocks, and white glue stocks were no longer produced, because all the factories had now gone to red glue laminate .....
Another f-in' genius here !!

Suggest that you return to German K98k Mauser 101, & stay awake this time - as white glue lams didn't exist until '44. Pay attention & learn that new production WWII K98k stocks were (from early-late) either:
1) solid walnut
2) red glue laminated beech
3) solid elm
4) white glue laminated beech
Any other mat'l (ie solid beech, etc) will be either a WWI Gewh98 rework, or not German.

Then:
a) get over yerself
b) find a cure for that bad case of keyboard diahhrea

Last edited by FeelthySanchez; 10-15-2012 at 8:40 AM..
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  #21  
Old 10-15-2012, 9:16 AM
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Collectors at least must have one of each.

CDFingers
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  #22  
Old 10-15-2012, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Another f-in' genius here !!
Nice introduction for yourself.
Since you wish to be the self appointed professor of German K98k Mauser 101, why don't you educate us all, and be sure to back it up with your sources.
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  #23  
Old 10-15-2012, 11:32 AM
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'Nuther dork added to the trusty ol' Ignore List .....
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  #24  
Old 10-15-2012, 11:40 AM
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I have read similar to what Trap is saying in one of the K98 books.

Side note, who resurrected this dead thread any way?
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
Nice introduction for yourself.
Since you wish to be the self appointed professor of German K98k Mauser 101, why don't you educate us all, and be sure to back it up with your sources.
psssh I know right. Who is this bum coming up on here acting like he is special? hahah. Making friends fast aren't we Mr. Sanchez?
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  #26  
Old 10-15-2012, 12:37 PM
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I have read similar to what Trap is saying in one of the K98 books.

Side note, who resurrected this dead thread any way?
The guy belligerently insisting his wrong answer is correct.

And to avoid any confusion, it wasn't Trap.
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  #27  
Old 10-15-2012, 12:37 PM
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SKSer45! Where have you been? Wound up with something you'd like.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcon5 View Post
The guy belligerently insisting his wrong answer is correct.

And to avoid any confusion, it wasn't Trap.
Aye, had no thought that it was Trap.
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  #29  
Old 10-15-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelthySanchez View Post
'Nuther dork added to the trusty ol' Ignore List .....
So that's all you can come up with? weak....real weak.
Typical keyboard commando, spout FUD, name calling, and insults, but no sources, then tuck tail and run. I'm disappointed, I was so looking forward to you enlightening us with your profound knowledge, that none us have been deemed to possess.
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Old 10-15-2012, 1:07 PM
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Don't talk **** about TRAP 55!
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Old 10-15-2012, 1:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
So that's all you can come up with? weak....real weak.
Typical keyboard commando, spout FUD, name calling, and insults, but no sources, then tuck tail and run. I'm disappointed, I was so looking forward to you enlightening us with your profound knowledge, that none us have been deemed to possess.
Quoting in case he actually did ignore you.
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Old 10-15-2012, 1:17 PM
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Dang, my internet feelings are hurt now.
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  #33  
Old 10-15-2012, 1:55 PM
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been in a plastic bubble as I contracted walking pneumonia but I will be god damned some bum comes on here and starts talking **** about 98ks and the people who know about them. Hell no.
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Old 10-15-2012, 2:11 PM
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Quote:
been in a plastic bubble as I contracted walking pneumonia
That's nothing to mess with, take your meds like the doc says and get well! I've missed you stirring the pot around here.
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Old 10-15-2012, 3:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelthySanchez View Post
Another f-in' genius here !!

Then:
a) get over yerself
b) find a cure for that bad case of keyboard diahhrea
Given his excellent vocabulary, as displayed in his first sentence, I lol'd

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Originally Posted by FeelthySanchez View Post
'Nuther dork added to the trusty ol' Ignore List .....
This just keeps on getting better

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  #36  
Old 10-15-2012, 4:25 PM
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Def a lot of refugees/veterans from WAF & MSA forums here.
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Old 10-15-2012, 5:57 PM
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  #38  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:31 PM
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Default Laminate Verses Walnut

If you have read that one does not often see many, if any stocks that are walnut after 1939, it is because the Germans were getting their main supply of walnut from the Good Ole USA and that supply was cut off when the Germans invaded Poland. Their Supply of Walnut was cut off at that point at least to the degree that it was not feasible to produce the K98 Rifle using Walnut. Just one mans opinion which I feel is a factual statement.
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Old 05-16-2017, 5:19 AM
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Germany started issuing red laminate stocks as early as 1937. Layers of beech wood were held together by Resorcinol glue.

Laminate stocks are better suited for mass production as they can be made cheaper and faster from lower quality source material. A walnut stock or any solid stock for this matter requires a piece of raw lumber of decent to good quality along the entire lengths of the stock, as -for example- you don't want a knot weakening the fore end, causing it to break off when knocked hard.

Also, solid pieces of wood need to be carefully kiln dried to prevent warping or cracking of the stock. A very time consuming process with limited yield. Compare that to making a laminate stock where you use 0.06" thin layers of veneer peeled from a tree trunk. After removing the bad pieces containing holes or knots you'll still end up with a high yield of usable sheets. Drying thin sheets is a matter of hours if not minutes compared to weeks for drying solid stocks. Fusing layers of beech wood together with Resorcinol takes less than an hour of curing, after that the raw laminate stock is ready for shaping.

White glue briefly appeared around 1944 when many Mauser-made byf44 models left the factory with beech wood stocks laminated with white, casein based glue. Mauser may also have supplied white glue stocks to other assemblers. White glue is a bit more tricky then red glue as it takes longer to cure and the water content in the glue causes the laminate to swell, requiring an additional drying cycle before the raw stock can be finish machined.

By the end of the war, as production and supply lines were more and more affected by allied bombing raids, and material shortages were the norm, solid stocks reappeared, mostly walnut although some experiments where done with elm. In addition, a few fiber glass stocks were issued but never got beyond the experimental stage.
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  #40  
Old 05-16-2017, 1:08 PM
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Necro bumps of a 5 year old thread ftw!
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