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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 11-19-2016, 5:07 PM
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Default Anybody know what kind of knife this is?

If you know what this is, I'd appreciate any info. Looks to be legit to me, but I've never seen a VN era knife like it. I figured the C&R crew would be a better bet for info than the blade forum. Thanks for anything you can provide.



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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2016, 10:23 PM
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Special Forces fighting knife, and if I had to guess, I would say a Randall MAC-V SOG (Military Assistance Command Vietnam, Special Observations Group) . Google images of "Randall Fighting Knives".
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Old 11-20-2016, 10:27 PM
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Looks like a Randall
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  #4  
Old 11-21-2016, 6:35 PM
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SOG. Obtained for the 5th Special Forces Group by Ben Baker. Chief of the U.S. Army Counterinsurgency Support Office (CISCO). Courtesy of United States Military Knives 1941-1991 Mike Silvey.

I will say that these knives were counterfeited extensively and way more counterfeits than originals!
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Old 11-21-2016, 6:37 PM
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If that's a fake, put me down for two. Nice knife OP!
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  #6  
Old 11-21-2016, 6:47 PM
1recluse 1recluse is offline
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There were many, very similar variations of the knife. I will say that everyone of the sheaths pictured in Mike Silvey's book has a stone pouch, many in the book are pictured without sheaths. I bought a counterfeit once, Mike lived a mile away from me. We crossed paths in Safeway often!
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  #7  
Old 11-21-2016, 8:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BABUSA View Post
Looks like a Randall
I have a Randall made knife from World War 2, and it is marked Randall Made. Unless this one has the Randall Made logo on it, I don't think it is a Randall knife.
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  #8  
Old 11-21-2016, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
If that's a fake, put me down for two. Nice knife OP!
this - nice one.

For this child of the 70's, the Vietnam Special Forces knives hold a serious fascination.

Info pilfered from another site:

The SOG knives were made and issued to SOGs (Studies and Observation Group) clandestine and cross-border
recon teams (RT) and Spike teams (ST) for their across the fence missions.
The knives were made by CISO (counterinsurgency support office) stationed at Okinawa.
Founder of the knife was Conrad Ben Baker.
The longer model was the SOG 7" Recon and the shorter more common one is 6" SOG Bowie.

The 7" RECON, had made total of 1,308 knives.

The 6" SOG "Bowie" was made by many different makers and that is one of the reasons to why
the guards, spine patterns, ricassos, etc., can be different from knife to knife.
The hilt and pommel can be of aluminum, iron and brass that is the mainly used material.(if Iv been told right)
The 6" SOG comes in 3 type of blades.
The blade was dark blued but some knives can be seen with the unique plum colored oxidation, and came about
because the dark blueing attained by some makers required a longer, hotter dip, which ruines blade temper.
Plum-colored blades were coincidental to manufacturer. Some knives were allso chromed and used for presentation.
There are 4 different type of leather sheaths.

In 1966 SOG ordered 1,200 sterile SOG knives.
In 1967 another 3,700 sterile SOG knives was ordered (numbered 1-3700).
1967 the 5th Special Forces Mess Association ordered 1,700 knives for presentation.
These were dilivered with Dark blued or Plum colored blade and engraves/etched with SF crest and wording,
5th SPECIAL FORCES GROUP (Abn) VIETNAM.
In 1972 50 SOG knives were ordered and sent to Joint Casualty Resolution Center in Thailand.

There allso exist a SCUBA/DEMO model knife, and there were 39 made.

Books and article about the SOG knife and photos an be found in:

-KNIVES OF THE U.S. SPECIAL FORCES, by Tom Clinton.
-KNIVES OF THE UNITED STATES MILITARY IN VIETNAM, by Mike Silvey.
-UNITED STATES MILITARY COLLECTORS GUIDE, by Gary Boyd and Mike Silvey.
-SPECIAL FORCES OF THE U.S. ARMY, by Ian Sutherland.
-MACV STUDIES AND OBSERVATION GROUP, Volume IV, by Harve Saal.
-in FIGHTING KNIVES Fall 1991, article by, Ben Baker.
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  #9  
Old 11-22-2016, 7:47 AM
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Wink gun show vendors

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
If that's a fake, put me down for two. Nice knife OP!
that what a gun show knife dealer would say if you ever showed it to him

"I think it's a reproduction" fake, I usually pay $75 for knives like that"

but if the dealer had it in his collection his opinion would be the opposite and he would say it's original and very valuable.

if it's yours it's fake, if it's his it's a rare collectable

Last edited by omega; 11-22-2016 at 7:49 AM..
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  #10  
Old 11-22-2016, 8:52 AM
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Thanks guys. I paid $375 for it OTD. Looks like the gamble may have been a good one.
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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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  #11  
Old 11-22-2016, 2:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
I have a Randall made knife from World War 2, and it is marked Randall Made. Unless this one has the Randall Made logo on it, I don't think it is a Randall knife.
VN era Special Forces Randall knives were "sterile", no markings at all because they were in places that required plausible deniability. The sheath looks to be a replacement. The original would have a pouch for a sharpening stone, and wouldn't have the soldiers info stamped on it.
If that's a fake, I'll take two or three myself.
John Browning, I can't make out all that's stamped on there, but it would be interesting to see who he was....or still is.
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  #12  
Old 11-22-2016, 3:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
VN era Special Forces Randall knives were "sterile", no markings at all because they were in places that required plausible deniability. The sheath looks to be a replacement. The original would have a pouch for a sharpening stone, and wouldn't have the soldiers info stamped on it.
If that's a fake, I'll take two or three myself.
John Browning, I can't make out all that's stamped on there, but it would be interesting to see who he was....or still is.
It reads

SGT. JAMES PAIR
DET R 36 5TH SFG
ABN VIETNAM

The sheath is clearly a WWII Kabar. I'm sure there is a story there. I am somewhat surprised at the marked sheath and the unmarked knife. Perhaps the sheath came later? This is one of those that you wish could talk.
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CZ Scorpion EVO and S&W 1911SC E-Series Commander for sale

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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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  #13  
Old 11-22-2016, 3:43 PM
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Double check that R 36. I think it reads B 36. The B teams were Mobile Strike Forces a.k.a. MIKE force.

You might try contacting the Special Forces Association.
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Old 11-22-2016, 3:56 PM
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http://www.specialforcesbooks.com/SIGCOBaseOps.htm

This has caught my interest and I've been doing some searching. Please see above link. if you scroll down it looks like Sgt. James R. Pair was assigned to the Radio Section from 6/5/69 - 7/17/70 (awesome knife by the way)

Also came across this one...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-EGW-Kni...2267486?_ul=BO

Last edited by bk13332; 11-22-2016 at 4:01 PM.. Reason: update
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  #15  
Old 11-22-2016, 9:14 PM
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tag for interest!
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  #16  
Old 11-22-2016, 9:16 PM
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It's a fixed blade
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