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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 10-16-2017, 5:14 AM
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Default Dang it Dave you made me buy a flintlock

Well Dave...you let me shoot the flintlock at the WEGC shoot and now I bought one.

You pushed me over the ledge, I've always wanted one. I ended up with an older Belgian repro of an 1805 Harpers Ferry. It's advertised as a .54 cal but I think it's a .58 since it's rifled.

Question - what powder were you using? I've read that some of the BP substitutes don't work well in flints. Any tips? Anyone with flintlock experience let me know!

Thanks

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Old 10-16-2017, 5:39 AM
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Nice pistol!

Mind if I ask how much you paid for that one? MajorSideburns and I have been eyeballing flintlock pistols for a few weeks now and boy, are they surprisingly expensive.

I have two flintlock rifles but have only got to shoot one of them. The other has it's lock out for repair.

They are actually great trainers to use for follow-through. You have to consciously hold on target through the long dwell time.

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Old 10-16-2017, 5:50 AM
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Thanks!

I'm into it for $333 shipped. I liked the older repro because it has a little age on the brass parts and it doesn't have the billboard on the barrel. I also didn't want to spend $500+ on a new pedersoli.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/704710045

What powder works in your rifle? I won't be buying balls until I verify caliber. I like the idea of bringing it back to the pure basics of firearms and shooting.
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Old 10-16-2017, 6:41 AM
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The synthetic black powders can be problematic, ESPECIALLY in flinters. Use the real deal, you'll be MUCH happier with the end result.
Jon
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Old 10-16-2017, 6:52 AM
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I use FFg for my main charge and FFFFg to prime the pan. In theory, FFFg should work to prime a pan, but my Kentucky rifle doesn't like to ignite the triple F.

Substitute powders are cleaner, but it defeats the purpose of shooting these IMO. You gotta have that smoke cloud.

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Old 10-16-2017, 7:55 AM
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Awesome, thanks for the tips gents. I'll be on the lookout for real BP here in the LA area.
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Old 10-16-2017, 8:32 AM
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Wow, now that is a sidearm! Isn’t peer pressure great?
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Old 10-16-2017, 2:48 PM
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I think Dave was using FFFg in his flintlock pistol at the recent WEGC shoot.
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Old 10-16-2017, 3:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bainter1212 View Post
I use FFg for my main charge and FFFFg to prime the pan. In theory, FFFg should work to prime a pan, but my Kentucky rifle doesn't like to ignite the triple F.

Substitute powders are cleaner, but it defeats the purpose of shooting these IMO. You gotta have that smoke cloud.

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This.

ffG works better for the main charge in the "larger calibers." ffffG for priming.
I use fffG for the main charge in my .50 caliber rifles.
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Old 10-16-2017, 4:34 PM
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The brown truck of happiness just delivered my reproduction 1728 model Brown Bess. They are something else. I will have to proof it, but that shouldn’t be too much of a problem.


Sent from the Telegraph Office.
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Old 10-16-2017, 4:47 PM
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The brown truck of happiness just delivered my reproduction 1728 model Brown Bess. They are something else. I will have to proof it, but that shouldn’t be too much of a problem.


Sent from the Telegraph Office.
Ooh, nice! A Brown Bess repro is also on my short list. Is it safe to assume yours is a smoothbore?

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Old 10-16-2017, 5:37 PM
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LOL awesome.
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Old 10-16-2017, 5:47 PM
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LOL awesome.
Hey you're guilty for the .50 desert eagle! Hahah
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Old 10-16-2017, 5:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Bainter1212 View Post
Ooh, nice! A Brown Bess repro is also on my short list. Is it safe to assume yours is a smoothbore?

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Yep, a smoothbore it is. I bought it from Loyalist Arms.


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Old 10-16-2017, 8:13 PM
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Congrats James! I started looking at flintlock pistols too after shooting Dave's. I can't find one I like just yet, but I didn't think of one that's preowned. Yours looks great.
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Old 10-16-2017, 8:45 PM
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They have some nice stuff on that Loyalist Arms website. I am tempted by this one:
http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers....harleville.htm

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Old 10-16-2017, 8:49 PM
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Wow very nice 81turbota! I've definitely caught flintlock fever and I don't even have one yet. There's more knowledgeable people that have already weighed in but I'll just pass on more of the same. What I've heard is that substitute powders are trickier to use in flintlocks. No problem for percussion muzzleloaders but that's because the caps have a lot more fire than the sparks from a flint. The beauty of muzzleloaders is experimentation. I'm sure you could load the main charge with a substitute powder and prime the pan with real blackpowder if you really wanted to. The main advantage of the substitute powder is the fact it's cleaner, much cleaner. On our last muzzleloader outing Bainter1212 and I brought almost identical Hawken replica percussion rifles. I started off shooting a substitute powder called Alliant, and Bainter1212 started with real FFFg black powder. After maybe 3 or 4 shots he was struggling to load the ball and had to stop and swab the bore to remove the built up carbon fouling, while I just kept plugging along without difficulty in loading for 20 shots or so until I decided to switch over to real black powder as well and experienced the same thing.

I think a good tip you will often hear is use some sort of blackpowder friendly lubricant, it helps keep the fouling from sticking to the bore. I use these Wonderlube brand ball patches which are soaked in lube and it really makes a difference compared to dry patches. Ballistol is really good as well. At our last blackpowder shoot some old timers were using something called "moose milk" which is a combination of water, soap, and mineral oil I think? They seemed to swear by it, I haven't tried it yet.
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Old 10-16-2017, 9:07 PM
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Yeah all of the old timers swear by moose milk. I got to get me some o that.

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Old 10-16-2017, 9:23 PM
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More than 1 pound in your home of real BP is a felony in California.

If you get fffG then a very small non metallic (porcelain) mortise and pestle will grind the fffG to fine powder (the finer the better). In other words make your own ffffG.

Only takes 1/2 of 1 grain (weight) to prime the pan. A pound has 7000 grains. So it's not like you need to grind very much ffffG for the pan at all. A thimble full is many shots. Would take 5 minutes to make enough to last a very long time.

That way you can use one can of fffG for almost anything.
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Old 10-16-2017, 9:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darto View Post
More than 1 pound in your home of real BP is a felony in California.
No comment. Except that. And that. And that....

(I'm not saying for a moment that the info is wrong)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 81turbota View Post
Awesome, thanks for the tips gents. I'll be on the lookout for real BP here in the LA area.
Suggestion: don't be on the lookout, you'll never find it. Call. Everyone. And if they don't have it (they wont), ask who does. Better yet, ask here who does. You want whatever you can get, but if they ask what kind, tell them you want Goex. It's the standard to measure all Holy Black against.

I suggest FFF and FFFF. You can grind the FFF into FFFF if you want, but why bother. A pound of FFFF will last you a LONG time. I'll load FFF even in a 58 cal. It's a little unconventional, but the accuracy is unbelievable, so I can't change now. Anyways, I'm just saying you won't go wrong with FF or FFF, whichever you pick for your main charge powder.

I think (70% sure) you can order it at basspro.com and pick up at your local store if you have one.

But really, you want to go to https://powderinc.com/ and order a min order (or more) of powder. I think you can order 5lb at a time.

Also, seems from your post that you are not new to BP, so assuming you shoot substitute powder in your other front stuffers, IMO consider DQ all your sub powder and shoot nothing but loose Holy Black in all your muzzleloaders (and your stainless Ruger 45 colt too for fun, but not exclusively)
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Old 10-16-2017, 10:02 PM
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Another suggestion. find a local BP club to shoot in. It'll hone you RIGHT quick.

Checked WEGC webpage, looks like you guys don't have a BP club. Too bad, you guys have lots of fun looking sub clubs. You should consider trying to make one if you have enough interested folks.

Last, since some folks seem to think lock time is slow, if your flint doesn't fire as fast as a modern revolver, you have lockwork to do. dry firing should produce a shower of sparks straight into the middle of the pan. touch hole at the top of the pan, and the frizzen should snap open easy. After that if you get slow ignition, you need a new flint.

(on that subject, briefly, don't buy cut aggate, only french or english flints, track of the wolf sells them cheap enough to get you going)




Oh, and your pistola is pretty. Good choice. (just in time for Halloween, I hope you are dressing up like a pirate)
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Old 10-17-2017, 4:53 AM
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Wow, great advice here guys thanks!! I haven't purchased any balls yet as I want to verify caliber. I did purchase the traditions "starter" kit and some lubricated patches. The pistol comes with a functional flint but I have no clue what material it is. Track the wolf seems like an excellent supplier for BP needs.

I don't know if any BP clubs around here but I have a few friends that occasionally shoot them so I'll start there. It seems like FFFg is a good place to start powder wise.

I'm already fearing the filthy build up but that's all part of the fun isn't it?

I'll post better pictures when it arrives.
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Old 10-17-2017, 7:06 AM
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When it comes time for cleaning, don't listen to all the hype about BP solvents. The BEST cleaner is plentiful and cheap. Hot water and dish soap is the best cleaner there is. I shoot all originals--'60 Colt, '49 Colt, '63 contract rifle-musket from the Civil War and a Civil War " Smith" carbine. Been shooting them for over 40 years. Never use any thing but hot soapy water to clean them. Never had a problem with any of them. One thing my father taught me--one can not clean BP too much.
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Old 10-17-2017, 7:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darto View Post
More than 1 pound in your home of real BP is a felony in California.
right on queue with the calguns black powder FUD
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Old 10-17-2017, 7:41 AM
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Discussion of black powder laws in California. It is simple to just replenish your 1 pound. I've been muzzleloading since a teenager, it used to be simpler with BP in every sporting goods store. I still have and shoot more BP firearms than smokeless.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...felony.378623/
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Old 10-17-2017, 8:15 AM
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Great, inter-forum FUD.

What is it with you regulation junkies? Why can you not accept the fact that you can go into any black powder retailer in the state and buy 10 pounds of powder right in front of a DOJ inspector and a couple of Sheriffs Deputies (I've done it) and have the whole transaction logged and NOTHING HAPPENS?

I'll tell you why, it's because it's completely legal because powders for ammunition are specifically exempted from that explosives regulation you love so much.
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Old 10-17-2017, 9:17 AM
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If not already done, installing a coned touch hole liner will improve ignition speed - In which case, I favor FFFg for loading and priming.
This assumes a properly hardened Frizzen and sharp Flint.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/list/Item.aspx/960/1

(Walmart) flushable wipes (or similar) are a cheap and decent alternative for cleaning - I tear up a sheet into quarters for barrel wiping and maybe a half sheet for
wiping down the outside. You can even use them for your hands
Wonderlube 1000 (or similar) is my favored lube and protector/rust inhibitor - inside and out.

Last edited by rmnc3r; 10-17-2017 at 9:31 AM..
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Old 10-17-2017, 10:04 AM
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Nice pistol. Are you trying to grandfather-in before the 2025 black powder pistol ban?
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Old 10-17-2017, 1:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darto View Post
More than 1 pound in your home of real BP is a felony in California.

If you get fffG then a very small non metallic (porcelain) mortise and pestle will grind the fffG to fine powder (the finer the better). In other words make your own ffffG.

Only takes 1/2 of 1 grain (weight) to prime the pan. A pound has 7000 grains. So it's not like you need to grind very much ffffG for the pan at all. A thimble full is many shots. Would take 5 minutes to make enough to last a very long time.

That way you can use one can of fffG for almost anything.
Great tip, thanks!
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Old 10-17-2017, 7:02 PM
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Aside from custom guns, the only 1728 besses I am aware of are the Indian repros. The Italian guns are usually the 2nd land pattern.
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Old 10-18-2017, 8:41 PM
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I have gotten real black powder from Martin B Retting, Angeles Shooting Range, and Bain & Davis. But I would call ahead to make sure, since it has been a couple of years since I bought any. Congrats on the flintlock
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Old 10-19-2017, 4:59 PM
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I'm not on the forum that often- glad to see I was a bad influence

I was using FFFG both to prime and fire. Since yours is better made, you'll probably have more reliable ignition. Mine seems to work 70-80% of the time, you have to be messy priming the pan
Not bad for $60 I suppose

Get yourself some GOOD flints. They do wear down as you shoot, and I read crappy flints don't spark very well.

-Dave

PS- Rettings does have real Goex BP. Syntax Error got me a pound awhile back.
My front barrel mounting tab cracked off- silver solder wasn't good enough, Ill have to try and weld it before the next shoot, or just run 30gr charges.
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Old 10-19-2017, 5:03 PM
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BTW- I wasn't using lubed patches- just generic cleaning patches. I bet lubed ones are easier to seat

I also cleaned by flushing the lock and barrel out with hot tap water, then flushing the water out with WD4- and cleaning normally.
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Old 10-20-2017, 6:40 PM
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On grinding your own priming powder, back when I bought my Hatfield flintlock for deer hunting I used a couple of blocks of wood to grind FFg. I figured that on the off chance of it igniting the flash would blow out and not up at my face as with a mortar and pestle. It never did. I only ground as much as I needed at a time and kept it in a small tube.
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Old 10-20-2017, 10:13 PM
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mortar and pestle works just fine.

So does a can of FFFF. I'm told 3f works just fine too. I just use my 4F.
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Old 10-21-2017, 7:47 AM
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No argument on the FFFFg for priming. It is what I use now because I have it. My rifle is .50 caliber and I always used FFg in it; 70 grains for hunting load with patched round balls. I don't have any experience with other configurations (caliber, pistols, cap priming, etc.).
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Old 10-21-2017, 9:42 AM
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It's easy to grind powder into fine dust that blows away easily. It lights off great as long as it stays in the pan
Just something to be aware of.
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