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  #1  
Old 06-04-2016, 6:47 PM
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Default Not A Firearm, But Opinions Wanted Please

I picked this item up the other day, taking a chance because the price was right. I do realize there is a lot of fakery out there, so there is always a chance of getting burned.

I know from the color and decal that it is a Luftwaffe helmet. The decal appears old but is in near perfect shape. There are lots of spots of chipped paint, but the helmet is free of dings or damage.

The inner leather liner is old and supple, but also excellent. There is a faded stamp that I tried to capture on photo. The size is ET68 and there is another stamping into the helmet that I can't quite read. The chin strap is soft and supple, free of tears.

Even if it faked or humped, it still presents nicely and the price was right. If it is original, all the better.

Here are pics, all input is appreciated!






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  #2  
Old 06-04-2016, 6:48 PM
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Seems like fake...
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  #3  
Old 06-04-2016, 7:09 PM
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I'm the farthest from a helmet expert, but all German helmets I've ever seen the color on this one looks way off.
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Old 06-04-2016, 7:25 PM
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Give feinstein her hat back.
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Old 06-04-2016, 8:08 PM
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Spanish M42 "modello Z" helmet I believe.

Could also be a post war German border guard helmet...

Look here for more info.
http://www.germanhelmet.com/abouthelmet.html
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Old 06-04-2016, 8:39 PM
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Interesting.... I do appreciate all the feedback. The lighting wasn't quite ideal when I snapped the pics, but the color does seem pretty close to the blue - gray color of the Luftwaffe helmet. The apple green Wehrmacht helmets and black SS helmets are obviously a completely different color.

Thanks SVT-40 for that link, as I didn't even know Spain made those helmets, but it makes sense given the German involvement in the SCW.

I looked pretty closely and I don't see any of the extra rivet holes that would be present on the Spanish helmet, unless they were filled in.

There only appears to be one coat of paint on the helmet, as it is chipped in a bunch of places revealing bare metal.

In any case, I appreciate all the input. If it was faked, it was good enough to fool me. As I said, I didn't pay a lot for it so I like it either way, but of course I would prefer it to be authentic.
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Old 06-04-2016, 8:41 PM
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Liner is bogus for sure.

Post it on warrelics.EU or ask member here Pitfighter, he may be able to answer further.
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  #8  
Old 06-04-2016, 9:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SunsetIE View Post
Liner is bogus for sure.

Post it on warrelics.EU or ask member here Pitfighter, he may be able to answer further.
I did post it on Wehrmacht-Awards, will post here any input I get there. The guy I got the helmet from made no claims as to its true lineage, it was more of a WYSIWYG type deal. It will look cool sitting on top of my gun safe. At least the K98's and my Walther P38 are for sure real
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Old 06-05-2016, 2:29 AM
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I have a few celebrity contacts and this is what they told me:

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Old 06-05-2016, 6:03 AM
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You might have better luck on Gunboards with helmets.
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Old 06-05-2016, 6:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
I did post it on Wehrmacht-Awards, will post here any input I get there. The guy I got the helmet from made no claims as to its true lineage, it was more of a WYSIWYG type deal. It will look cool sitting on top of my gun safe. At least the K98's and my Walther P38 are for sure real
WAF doesn't seem as active as it once was, that's why I mentioned warrelics.
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Old 06-05-2016, 6:57 AM
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Ruff condition repro.
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Old 06-05-2016, 7:16 AM
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My guess is that it is a repro, artificially aged by banging it around and chipping the paint. I am certainly no expert, but it just doesn't have that "old" look to it.

I would ask here as well:

http://www.k98kforum.com/forumdispla...rman-Militaria

Some of they guys on that form have been really critical of Wehrmacht-Awards, particularly regarding Helmets. Evidently someone got some sort of spectrometer and was scanning helmets to figure out the chemistry of the paint, and declaring helmets to be real or fake based on this.

From memory, some folks said that their known good helmets were said to be fake based on this, and some fakes were declared real.

I will have to see if I can find the thread.

On edit: Duh, it is a sticky. Here is the thread: http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....and-Censorship
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  #14  
Old 06-05-2016, 7:32 AM
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For those who responded, please share what indicators lead you to ID it as a fake. I have a repro German helmet and it would take a lot of effort to make it look like this one just to sell it for a few extra bucks.

Not arguing, just trying to learn here.
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Old 06-05-2016, 7:58 AM
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Again, not an expert by any means, not even an amateur when it comes to helmets, but to me it just doesn't look old. With bare metal under all the chips, I would expect to see some serious oxidation/rust if they happened over 70 years ago.
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Old 06-05-2016, 7:59 AM
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my helmet is definitely not real but the average joe is always calling me out and asking whats with the German helmet when I ride around my bike.[IMG]http://[/IMG]
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Old 06-05-2016, 8:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
For those who responded, please share what indicators lead you to ID it as a fake. I have a repro German helmet and it would take a lot of effort to make it look like this one just to sell it for a few extra bucks.

Not arguing, just trying to learn here.
Condition of chinstrap and liner do not match the helmet, first give away. Even if the helmet was real, the liner is a newly made repro. No oxidation on the bare metal on the helmet tells me its recently been scuffed up. The luftwaffe eagle decal is too nice for its condition, the bird is WAY too close to the vent hole. Should be lower, you know ze Germans were sticklers for uniformity!
Probably a postwar spanish helmet someone is trying to make some $$ on. Easy to buy fake decals online.

Last edited by SunsetIE; 06-05-2016 at 8:11 AM..
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Old 06-05-2016, 8:18 AM
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how much did you pay for that? ive seen German helmets that are completely rusted or have holes in local swap meets asking 300-500. for a repro I wouldnt mind paying 50-80 bucks.
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Old 06-05-2016, 8:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunsetIE View Post
Condition of chinstrap and liner do not match the helmet, first give away. Even if the helmet was real, the liner is a newly made repro. No oxidation on the bare metal on the helmet tells me its recently been scuffed up. The luftwaffe eagle decal is too nice for its condition, the bird is WAY too close to the vent hole. Should be lower, you know ze Germans were sticklers for uniformity!
Probably a postwar spanish helmet someone is trying to make some $$ on. Easy to buy fake decals online.
That is precisely the type of feedback I was looking for. Danke!
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Old 06-05-2016, 8:33 AM
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Originally Posted by oc16 View Post
how much did you pay for that? ive seen German helmets that are completely rusted or have holes in local swap meets asking 300-500. for a repro I wouldnt mind paying 50-80 bucks.

I have a nice repro helmet that was about $100 including the decals. I don't think anyone is paying the prices you mentioned for dug up relics though. They are all over EBay for $30-$80 in poor condition. Undoubtedly real because it be worth faking something that cheap that is beyond the point of restoration.
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Old 06-05-2016, 8:34 AM
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It is perfect for a trump rally though!!
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Old 06-05-2016, 8:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
I have a nice repro helmet that was about $100 including the decals. I don't think anyone is paying the prices you mentioned for dug up relics though. They are all over EBay for $30-$80 in poor condition. Undoubtedly real because it be worth faking something that cheap that is beyond the point of restoration.
Youd be surprised what some of the SS "relic" helmets coming out of the eastern front are going for. No decals, liners or straps, just pitted rusty helmets from documented fighting positions.
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Old 06-05-2016, 9:29 AM
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There is and has been for some time, a trend to restore original old shells.
They take the shell, strip the paint, sand and re-prime and paint, then add decals.

This "refurbished" helmet can then be sold using the term "original" -
I have noticed IMA-USA has a small side-line going with these, they add camouflage and chicken-wire, and some wear and tear, and charge $400-500.
http://www.ima-usa.com/original-germ...ef66-6598.html

They have of course made a cottage industry of this in Eastern Europe, where hundreds upon thousands of shells in varying condition have been unearthed by diggers over the last 70 or so years.
Unrestored whole shells sell for between $50 and up, depending on condition.

I cannot tell from the pictures, as I am looking at this on a phone - but, could be an all out reproduction or a home restoration, with poor primer application.
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  #24  
Old 06-05-2016, 9:50 AM
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Originally Posted by pitfighter View Post
There is and has been for some time, a trend to restore original old shells.
They take the shell, strip the paint, sand and re-prime and paint, then add decals.

This "refurbished" helmet can then be sold using the term "original" -
I have noticed IMA-USA has a small side-line going with these, they add camouflage and chicken-wire, and some wear and tear, and charge $400-500.
http://www.ima-usa.com/original-germ...ef66-6598.html

They have of course made a cottage industry of this in Eastern Europe, where hundreds upon thousands of shells in varying condition have been unearthed by diggers over the last 70 or so years.
Unrestored whole shells sell for between $50 and up, depending on condition.

I cannot tell from the pictures, as I am looking at this on a phone - but, could be an all out reproduction or a home restoration, with poor primer application.
Thanks Pitfighter. I had hoped you would chime in on this. I actually bought a repro helmet offered by IMA and it seems to be of very high quality. Definitely not original nor was it advertised to be. It was much higher quality than the other repro I got from 'At the Front.' That one was rather shoddy and screamed "Made in China." I took one look at it and immediately posted it for sale at a loss.
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Old 06-05-2016, 4:44 PM
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feel bad you over paid

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/clt/5585290236.html
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oc16 View Post
WOW!

Well that is clearly the same helmet, but that is not what I paid for it. I bought it on Ebay for much less, from the same seller I presume.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222123091477

Probably still over paid.... C'est La Vie
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:47 PM
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Look on the bright side...it might be a Hollywood prop used in a movie.
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Old 06-06-2016, 5:39 AM
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Look on the bright side...it might be a Hollywood prop used in a movie.
Or worn while blasting targets with a K98 at a Calguns C&R shoot.
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:51 AM
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I concur that the helmet is not original, but someone went to quite a bit of trouble to make it look authentic. Further examination revealed a "dome stamp" which is hard to see clearly but I took a photo and found a clearer version online. I have no ill will toward the seller because he made no claims as to the helmet's authenticity. Instead of a valuable collectible, I have a neat man-cave decoration.


Stock Image:

Last edited by Bobby Ricigliano; 06-06-2016 at 10:55 AM..
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  #30  
Old 06-06-2016, 2:29 PM
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Might think about chroming it.
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Old 06-06-2016, 3:09 PM
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Might think about chroming it.
I just might do that.

And maybe if you chrome those junk rifles you have been trying to peddle for months someone might buy them for parts. I try to ignore you but you keep following me around trying to hump my leg. Now run along and get back under your rock.
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Old 06-06-2016, 4:04 PM
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Hey, bite your tongue - i sold all the rifles except one and the M44 s and 91/30s were in very good condition at fair prices. That current sks is in pretty good condition. ...very bright shiny bote. Now the wood is soaked in commie fat, but a good cleaning will make another generation of consistent bang stick. Its odd to me but a couple were buyers out of state.

You are very sensitive if you call my one comment on one of your last 100 posts is..."humping ".

Oh well. .i thought it was funny...chrome to the dome and all : )
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