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  #1  
Old 03-03-2011, 2:12 PM
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Question Magpul 5 and 10rd magazine limiter

Ok so what is everyone's thoughts on these? Doesn't seem like a permanent modification without fixing the floorplate.



The PMAG 10 Round Limiter installs in standard PMAG 20 bodies, reducing the magazine capacity to 10 rounds. Designed for sporting and hunting applications, installation of the Limiter is simple, tool-less, and requires no permanent modification of the magazine body.

NOTE: This product does not make PMAG 20 magazines legal in jurisdictions where magazines with a capacity of 20 rounds are prohibited. Consult all local, state, and federal regulations prior to usage.
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Old 03-03-2011, 2:18 PM
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Doesn't seem like anything different from what us CA dealers have been doing for years now.

I guess these can be used if the floorplate were permanently attached.
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Old 03-03-2011, 2:25 PM
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I had a thread on this a while back, the consensus was that the floor-plate had to be epoxied on. I think this is a method for home "roll your own" peeps who want something reliable to block the mag at the point it must be blocked.
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Old 03-03-2011, 2:29 PM
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How much and do you have 10/30 blocks? It actually looks good.
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Old 03-03-2011, 2:36 PM
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Originally Posted by alex45auto View Post
How much and do you have 10/30 blocks? It actually looks good.

We don't have any of these yet and I don't believe Magpul is going to make any for 30rd mags either. They are designed for hunters in other states.
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Old 03-03-2011, 2:39 PM
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Originally Posted by alex45auto View Post
How much and do you have 10/30 blocks? It actually looks good.
There is a company that sells a similar product. Exile machine sells them, magblock.
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Old 03-03-2011, 2:46 PM
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Originally Posted by AlliedArmory View Post
Doesn't seem like anything different from what us CA dealers have been doing for years now.

I guess these can be used if the floorplate were permanently attached.
The major difference is that if you remove the "block" you no longer have a complete magazine.

For a block like this


You could just remove the block and still have a complete functioning illegal magazine. Another minor advantage is that the string is not compressed by the block.


Magazineblocks.com already came out with something that is really simliar to what Magpul has done.
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Old 03-03-2011, 2:47 PM
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As long as you epoxy the piece to the mag spring it is a permanent modification. If you epoxy the floor plate to the body, how do you clean your magazine?
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Old 03-03-2011, 2:55 PM
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Epoxy is FAR from permanent. Let me put it this way: a prosecutor can take an epoxied magazine, smack it on the table in front of a jury and the epoxy bonds will break, allowing him/her to disassemble the mag in front of the jury. The danger of epoxy is it's perceived permanence. This is why Riflegear and myself pin the baseplates to the body using a blind hole and roll pin technique.
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  #10  
Old 03-03-2011, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by THT View Post
Epoxy is FAR from permanent. Let me put it this way: a prosecutor can take an epoxied magazine, smack it on the table in front of a jury and the epoxy bonds will break, allowing him/her to disassemble the mag in front of the jury. The danger of epoxy is it's perceived permanence. This is why Riflegear and myself pin the baseplates to the body using a blind hole and roll pin technique.
Although if they did break the epoxy, remove the block, and re-assemble the mag without the block(can't do that when the bottom locking plate IS the block), they would have just manufactured a large capacity magazine in front of a courtroom of witnesses.

I mean heck, couldn't a prosecutor knock the roll pin out?
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  #11  
Old 03-03-2011, 3:26 PM
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Originally Posted by THT View Post
Epoxy is FAR from permanent. Let me put it this way: a prosecutor can take an epoxied magazine, smack it on the table in front of a jury and the epoxy bonds will break, allowing him/her to disassemble the mag in front of the jury. The danger of epoxy is it's perceived permanence. This is why Riflegear and myself pin the baseplates to the body using a blind hole and roll pin technique.
The CA DOJ told me that epoxy is permanent enough for the mags. I called 2 times and spoke to 2 different people and they both said the same thing.
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  #12  
Old 03-03-2011, 4:08 PM
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I just got the email and was going to post damn
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Old 03-03-2011, 4:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlliedArmory View Post
The CA DOJ told me that epoxy is permanent enough for the mags. I called 2 times and spoke to 2 different people and they both said the same thing.
I'd need it in writing to be "comfortable"
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Old 03-03-2011, 4:12 PM
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Just curious how do pistol manufactures make their mags permanently 10 rounders.
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Old 03-03-2011, 4:15 PM
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Just curious how do pistol manufactures make their mags permanently 10 rounders.
My mags for my XD are dimpled so the follower can't pass by. The follower is also taller then a standard capacity magazine.
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Old 03-03-2011, 4:25 PM
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if i were to drill a small hole through the base plate and the side of the mag and put a small roll pin in. Would that make it a permanent modification.
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  #17  
Old 03-03-2011, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jlitt619 View Post
if i were to drill a small hole through the base plate and the side of the mag and put a small roll pin in. Would that make it a permanent modification.
I've read a few threads on whats permenant or not and the concensus seems to be that we don't know. Permenant is not defined and so according to the big dogs on the site, it is better to err on the safe side. But then even that wasn't really explained.

I would pin it, then epoxy over it.
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Old 03-03-2011, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AlliedArmory View Post

NOTE: This product does not make PMAG 20 magazines legal in jurisdictions where magazines with a capacity of 20 rounds are prohibited. Consult all local, state, and federal regulations prior to usage.
well its a good thing magazines with a capacity of 20 rounds are NOT prohibited in CA.

Whats the cost of the magpul blocks?
doesent seem any different than these guys :
http://www.magazineblocks.com/
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  #19  
Old 03-03-2011, 4:32 PM
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I think retail is $14 per 3 pack
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  #20  
Old 03-03-2011, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AlliedArmory View Post
I think retail is $14 per 3 pack
So Magpul will only be selling the blocks in CA? They won't be selling the magazines with the blocks installed?

(I thought your disclaimer was a joke)
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  #21  
Old 03-03-2011, 5:08 PM
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Correct, they're just selling the limiters
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  #22  
Old 03-03-2011, 5:25 PM
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Well at the least your 10/20 whatever can now be reliable I assume the next ones are going to be for .308 mags.
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Old 03-03-2011, 5:50 PM
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And nothing for the 308 pmags.....
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Old 03-03-2011, 5:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dhena81 View Post
Well at the least your 10/20 whatever can now be reliable I assume the next ones are going to be for .308 mags.
I didn't know 10/20 and 10/30 blocked magazines were unreliable.
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Old 03-03-2011, 6:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRichie09 View Post
I didn't know 10/20 and 10/30 blocked magazines were unreliable.
depends on how they are blocked
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  #26  
Old 03-03-2011, 6:02 PM
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crap I just took the pins out of my mags to add ranger plates. Looks like im going to the hardware store....
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Old 03-03-2011, 6:29 PM
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Not cheap at 13$ for 3
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  #28  
Old 03-05-2011, 10:56 AM
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I agree with Magblocks FAQ section's explaination...


" Consider this: Once a block is installed its permanently 10 rounds. Open it up and take a magazine apart and its a rebuild kit again. "


The way the magazine sits with a Magblock 10/20 block installed it's limited to 10 rounds...there is no way it could be used for anymore than 10 rounds.

If the prosecutor disassembles the magazine he now holds a magazine repair kit in his hands....which anybody in CA can purchase legally. If HE reassembles it in front of the court to show it now holds more than 10 rounds, HE just commited the felony...not the defendant.

Besides the beauty of the Magblock ( And Magpul's design as well now ) is that it replaces the critical lower spring attachment/locking piece....remove the Magblock and now you not only are holding just a repair kit in your hands...but you cant reassemble the magazine to function again unless you have the original lower spring attachment/locking piece.

Even with our asinine laws, you should be able to take any magazine repair kit....throw away the spring attachment/locking piece....assemble the magazine with the Magblock....and have a perfectly legal 10 round magazine...without epoxy/pins/etc.

The permanency is twofold....disassemble it and you now only have a repair kit in your hands......also remove the magblock and it now doesnt have a spring attachment/locking piece...sure you could slide the lower plate on...but now the DA doing that is not only modifying the design of the magazine , but he is commiting a felony in CA in front of a court full of people....that the defendant did not do when he assembled the magazine with the Magblock.


Thank god most of my AR's are featureless, but for the ones that arent ( I like pistol grips and such on some ) I use the Magblock epoxied to the spring attachment point...leaving the plate clear to clean the mag internals.

Even though I dont even believe epoxying the spring to the magblock is neccesary, I do it as just an extra step...but epoxying the entire magazine shut is not needed in my opinion for the reasons above.
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Old 03-07-2011, 7:22 PM
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If anyone gets a response from the DOJ regarding what is considered acceptable for permanence "in writing" please forward a copy to me via PM or email.

Thanks

I will be offering the new Magpul limiters once they are released. I have orders submitted with several large distributors.

Prices

Magpul 10rd Limiters (Set of 3) = $13.95


****Now accepting pre orders ****
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Old 03-07-2011, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNNYRAMBO View Post
If anyone gets a response from the DOJ regarding what is considered acceptable for permanence "in writing" please forward a copy to me via PM or email.

Thanks

I will be offering the new Magpul limiters once they are released. I have orders submitted with several large distributors.

Prices

Magpul 10rd Limiters (Set of 3) = $13.95


****Now accepting pre orders ****
Available for AR-10 PMags?
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  #31  
Old 04-20-2011, 10:42 PM
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awesome I just ordered some from magpul but they were backordered!
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  #32  
Old 04-21-2011, 9:54 AM
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So let me get this straight.

People are saying that if you take a 20 round magazine and put a magazine limiter in it, you have a legit 10 round magazine? Even if you take the limiter out and put a regular floorplate in you are claiming that the person who does this commits the crime?

Quote:
12020 (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.
I personally am not sure if I want to try this defense yet without meshing more of it out. PC12020(c)(25)(A) seems to state that if it hasn't been permanently altered it is still a "large-capacity magazine".

And remember, if you are using these in a fixed magazine rifle and they can prove it is a large capacity magazine, you are going to also be facing charges of 12280(a) and (b).

I would at least make some effort to make the modification permanent. Being able to swap out floor plates is not permanent.

Feel free to try and convince me otherwise. I would love to be wrong on this.
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  #33  
Old 04-21-2011, 10:07 AM
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Well, look at FN PS90 ten round magazines.

They have a limiter that is functionally identical, it uses the same mag body, base plate, spring and follower(s), just the spacer is different from a 50 round magazine.

I don't think they are epoxied or anything.

If it's good enough for FN, it should be good enough for me.
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  #34  
Old 04-21-2011, 12:37 PM
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Old topic. We have hashed this out many times over the years.

It comes down to this...reversal is NOT legal under ANY TERMS. If you use a finger or chainsaw, its illegal.

people seal the access plate for an added security, even though there is NO SUCH requirement in the law.

Retailers are under no obligation to add sealant, welds, rivets or any anti-tampering device to a magazine that only holds 10 rounds.

Its only an added precaution when you take a LARGE capacity magazine and LIMIT its capacity to 10. Then you need to think about how a person will define your product.

Any and all magazines purchased in a store are 10 round magazines..all of them. If they are NOT ten round magazines they are illegal.

These devices you buy are made to alter large capacity magazines. If a magazine you purchase has one of these devices inside, then it is part of the original magazine as far as the law is concerned, its removal is illegal no matter how that removal is accomplished.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:45 PM
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I have used these and like them. One thing not mentioned yet is that they are marked "10 round" on the bottom cap lock. When you look at the bottom of the mag it clearly says 10 round. Ill take the added piece of mind for about $1 extra per mag. Im supprised retailers dont post a pic of this. Sells its self.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:47 PM
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I have used these and like them. One thing not mentioned yet is that they are marked "10 round" on the bottom cap lock. When you look at the bottom of the mag it clearly says 10 round. Ill take the added piece of mind for about $1 extra per mag. Im supprised retailers dont post a pic of this. Sells its self.
wow, that is nice. thats like a slap to the face to anyone attempting to state otherwise.
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Old 04-21-2011, 1:01 PM
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I don't think there is a law against making your pre-ban magazine limited to 10 rounds for when you use it in a OLL equipped with a BB.

Not to mention if that if the spring is epoxied to the limiter you can't make a complete magazine with a floor plate that has no connecting means.
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Old 04-21-2011, 1:05 PM
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I just ordered more since I spilled the beans on the "10 round" label.
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Old 04-21-2011, 1:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhena81 View Post
I don't think there is a law against making your pre-ban magazine limited to 10 rounds for when you use it in a OLL equipped with a BB.

Not to mention if that if the spring is epoxied to the limiter you can't make a complete magazine with a floor plate that has no connecting means.
No, but there is regulation on that. There is no regulation on buying 10 round magazines. The regulation that goes into effect when you make a pre-ban large capacity magazine, limited to 10 is...
"...A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds"....

This holds true for use in fixed magazine firearms.

Store bought 10 round magazines do NOT need to comply with that regulation. The determining factor is, ""Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds..."

The condition of accommodating less than 11 rounds doesn't need to be PERMANENT.

so when you alter a 30rd magazine to limit its capacity, the phrase "permanently altered" comes into play. There is now debate and negotiation as to what they means. There is NO debate or negotiation when its simply a ten round capacity magazine.... even one with a longer body.
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Old 04-21-2011, 2:04 PM
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Just a heads up on some of the AK mag blocks being sold. (The style that you put inset of the spring and epoxy to the spring)

No matter what you do you CAN NOT get epoxy to hold to some of the blocks with any appreciable strength.

After trying 6, yes SIX, different epoxies I emailed the manufacturer and was told that they could possibly still have some mold release on them. Try sanding them. Really?

I was done screwing around so I sanded them coarse. Drilled a bunch of holes and before epoxy I safety wired the crap out of them.

Man I really hate design flaws but hate it even more when the situation is not used to better the product and the company.

On a side note the AR mag blocks worked great and the epoxy held with good strength.

Folks using epoxy for a “permanent” fix, please make sure you check the hold of the epoxy to the block!!! Move them around, load and unload, drop the mag, chuck it at the the old lady, whatever the mag will be subjected to, test it.

It would really suck to have epoxy pop off the block and only find out when the police decide to check them.
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