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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 03-01-2011, 12:34 PM
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Default M1A 20 round magazine

I have a Springfield M1A that I bought in the early 90s. It came with 2 20 round magazines. I've also replaced the flash suppresor to the CA legal one with no bayonet attachment. My question is: What is the legality on using the 20 rounders that came with it? No, I don't have the receipt from when I bought it so I have no way of proving that it's pre ban. I'm currently using 2 after market 10 rounders that are not reliable. Does anyone have any experiences with converting the mags to 10/20?
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:48 PM
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You possesed the hi-cap mags b4 2000, you can continue to use and own them.
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:51 PM
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Every time a californian modifies a legally owned high capacity magazine to only accept ten rounds, god kills two puppies. You think long and hard about that.
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  #4  
Old 03-01-2011, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by c20rj View Post
You possesed the hi-cap mags b4 2000, you can continue to use and own them.
How do you prove that they're pre 2000? I know that the serial # on my M1A would prove that it's made in the early 90s. What kind of hassle would it be to be harrassed by LEO or ATF?
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  #5  
Old 03-01-2011, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by alex45auto View Post
How do you prove that they're pre 2000? I know that the serial # on my M1A would prove that it's made in the early 90s. What kind of hassle would it be to be harrassed by LEO or ATF?
You don't have to prove a darn thing to anyone. Possession and use are completely legal. Go have fun with them!
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sevensix2x51 View Post
You don't have to prove a darn thing to anyone. Possession and use are completely legal. Go have fun with them!
I go to Burro Canyon on occassions to shot my M1A and ARs. I was told that most ranges are sometimes patrolled by ATF and you know what ATF can do. So what are ATF's limitation with what I have?
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:01 PM
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Burden of proof is on them. I have never been asked about my magazines. You truely owned them legally b4 the ban, now if you were asked by law enforcement where you got them and your answer was "last week in vegas california law sucks" Then you will have a problem as you will now be guilty of importing hi-cap mags.
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c20rj View Post
Burden of proof is on them. I have never been asked about my magazines. You truely owned them legally b4 the ban, now if you were asked by law enforcement where you got them and your answer was "last week in vegas california law sucks" Then you will have a problem as you will now be guilty of importing hi-cap mags.
Does that also work on ARs if I have high cap mags pre 2000 eventhough the ARs are recent builds?
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:04 PM
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Search around, the law is pretty straight forward. Parts kits are legal to sell or trade AS PARTS, to repair your EXISTING pre 2000 owned mags. You cannot loan your hi-cap mags to anyone, unless you are present.
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by alex45auto View Post
I go to Burro Canyon on occassions to shot my M1A and ARs. I was told that most ranges are sometimes patrolled by ATF and you know what ATF can do. So what are ATF's limitation with what I have?
Atf is a federal agency, they would not give a crap about a california magazine law.

Possession is not illegal. Use is not illegal. I don't even OWN 10 rd mags for my ar15s, because I have perfectly good hi caps from the nineties. Just keep the high caps out of bullet button rifles and you're fine.
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:06 PM
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As far as the ar goes as long is it is a "featureless" build yes the same rules apply. Check the oll guide on this forum.
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:07 PM
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Assuming some weird scenario just occurred, it's not up to you to prove anything, it's up to the DDA to prove it.
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2011, 1:07 PM
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Originally Posted by c20rj View Post
Search around, the law is pretty straight forward. Parts kits are legal to sell or trade AS PARTS, to repair your EXISTING pre 2000 owned mags. You cannot loan your hi-cap mags to anyone, unless you are present.
Does that mean I can use my pre 2000 AR high caps on my newly built ARs?
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  #14  
Old 03-01-2011, 1:08 PM
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Does that mean I can use my pre 2000 AR high caps on my newly built ARs?
Do your ars have bullet buttons?
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:10 PM
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Do your ars have bullet buttons?
yes
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:11 PM
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yes
Then no, do not use them. You will have made an assault weapon.
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  #17  
Old 03-01-2011, 1:12 PM
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Yes, I do. I owned my mags b4 2000, along with my armalite ar-15. When I failed to register my AR as a assault weapon in 1999, I had to give it to a out of state relative, but I kept my mags. Fasdt forward to last year, I built a new featureless AR and used my exisisting pre ban mags.
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2011, 1:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sevensix2x51 View Post
Then no, do not use them. You will have made an assault weapon.
Thanks for all your answers. Great to know that I can use my pre 2000 M1A 20 round mags!!!
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:18 PM
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One of the main reasons I bought an M1A over an AR is you can still use a 20 round mag. No need for a silly button. Or extra nerfing…It is up to the state to prove how and when you got the magazine.
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  #20  
Old 03-01-2011, 1:21 PM
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Originally Posted by alex45auto View Post
Thanks for all your answers. Great to know that I can use my pre 2000 M1A 20 round mags!!!
No problem. If you do have pre2k ar mags, you owe it to yourself to build a featureless ar..
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  #21  
Old 03-01-2011, 1:22 PM
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Orion, assault weapon rules also apply to the m1a. ALL mags regarless of pistol or rifle useage, have to comply with the 10 rd rules as stated.
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:23 PM
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you dont have to have proof you had them before 2000, in fact.... the POLICE has to prove you dint. so, basically, you had them,its legal, be honest and they will leave you alone.
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  #23  
Old 03-01-2011, 1:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sevensix2x51 View Post
No problem. If you do have pre2k ar mags, you owe it to yourself to build a featureless ar..
I don't like featureless so I'm stuck with 10 rounders. I'm just glad that I can use my original 20 rounders for my M1A. It sucks using aftermarket crappy mags that are not reliable. My original 20 rounders have had no issues!!!
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:29 PM
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This law is so stupid. You basically could take a pistol made before 2000, Buy a mecgar mag for it of any capacity and say you bought it before 2000... its such a pointless law. Magazines are not cereal numbered. Well most.

BUT DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!! that would be illegal.... ILLEGAL!!!!!
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Old 03-01-2011, 1:46 PM
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Seems like it's not worth the potential headache if some LEO gets it in his head that you're sporting illegal wares, and decides to hassle you about it.
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Old 03-01-2011, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 23 Blast View Post
Seems like it's not worth the potential headache if some LEO gets it in his head that you're sporting illegal wares, and decides to hassle you about it.
Are you saying that I should not use my perfectly legal mags that came with my M1A that I bought in the early 90s? Has anyone had any account of an LEO confronting them of a similar situation?
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Old 03-01-2011, 2:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c20rj View Post
Orion, assault weapon rules also apply to the m1a. ALL mags regarless of pistol or rifle useage, have to comply with the 10 rd rules as stated.
Right.

And look at a standard M1A - no pistol grip, no collapsible stick, CA-compliant muzzle brake (not flash hider). That is, it qualifies as featureless, so no mag-lock device is required, and without the mag-lock device to make it 'fixed mag', large-capacity mags are legal to use with that weapon.

So it follows the mag-capacity law just fine - just not the way you wrote it.
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  #28  
Old 03-01-2011, 2:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Right.

And look at a standard M1A - no pistol grip, no collapsible stick, CA-compliant muzzle brake (not flash hider). That is, it qualifies as featureless, so no mag-lock device is required, and without the mag-lock device to make it 'fixed mag', large-capacity mags are legal to use with that weapon.

So it follows the mag-capacity law just fine - just not the way you wrote it.
Thanks for the explanation that standard M1As with CA-compliant muzzle brake is featureless. Makes me feel better about using my 20 rounders. Time to dump those crappy unreliable aftermarket 10 rounders!!!

Last edited by alex45auto; 03-01-2011 at 2:30 PM.. Reason: adding more
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Old 03-01-2011, 2:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InGrAM View Post
This law is so stupid. You basically could take a pistol made before 2000, Buy a mecgar mag for it of any capacity and say you bought it before 2000... its such a pointless law. Magazines are not cereal numbered. Well most.

BUT DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!! that would be illegal.... ILLEGAL!!!!!
Whats illegal here?

The firearm does not have to be made prior to 2000 for you to use hi-caps in it. You have to keep in mind, when you use a 10plus round mag in a mag locked (bullet button or similar) firearm, its not so much the process of using the "hi-cap" mag that is illegal, as it is that you have created an illegal assault weapon as per CA law.

As far as you buying a hi-cap mag, not illegal per se. I wont go into LEO exemptions, so lets assume we are talking about John Q Public the private citizen.
It is in FACT, not illegal for you buy a hi-cap magazine in the state. The seller would be in violation of the law, not the purchaser.
What YOU can not do, is import (bring from another state), manufacture, sell, or transfer/give hi-caps. Anything not part of that list (including purchasing) is legal.

There's a lot of confusion on this, since the Attorney Generals website does list purchasing as an illegal activity, however if you check the actual penal code, it makes no mention of purchasing being illegal.

Doesn't change the situation for most, I know, but lets just get things straight.
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  #30  
Old 03-01-2011, 5:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c20rj View Post
As far as the ar goes as long is it is a "featureless" build yes the same rules apply. Check the oll guide on this forum.
The M1A, with the new muzzle brake installed, IS featureless. No BB required. Use any mags you already own, and buy new 10 rounders from CMI through 44Mag.com and they will function great.
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  #31  
Old 03-01-2011, 5:14 PM
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New muzzle brakes from Springfield and others like Young Manufacturing

have no bayonet lug (is that even still an evil feature in CA?)
There is NOTHING else to do to make M1A compliant if it has regular "rifle" non PG stock.
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Old 03-01-2011, 5:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevensix2x51 View Post
Atf is a federal agency, they would not give a crap about a california magazine law.

Possession is not illegal. Use is not illegal. I don't even OWN 10 rd mags for my ar15s, because I have perfectly good hi caps from the nineties. Just keep the high caps out of bullet button rifles and you're fine.
Yeah, worry about the ATF getting a house number wrong and bulldozing your home over with an APC... they don't screw with piddly **** like mags. They screw up big time.

Last edited by lelandEOD; 03-01-2011 at 5:26 PM..
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  #33  
Old 03-04-2011, 10:14 AM
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Thanks for all the info guys. Can't wait to use my 20 rounders again for my M1A!!!!
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