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  #1  
Old 12-04-2014, 10:56 PM
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Default Orange County: Instructor Review & Recommendation Thread

Now that there's a larger selection of CCW trainers in OC, how's a thread to post reviews of your experience with a given trainer sound? Things that might be helpful to others could be the trainer's name, location of classes, cost, number of rounds shot, etc.

Below is the list of trainers. Who's first?

http://ocsd.org/civicax/filebank/blo...x?BlobID=39679

.
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2014, 9:00 AM
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I did FTA in July. This is out at Rauhauge's in Norco. The classroom instruction was a little sketchy- they insisted a loaded magazine was a loaded gun under the law and would get you arrested. No kidding.

The range day, however, was excellent, like a mini-Front Sight class. The cost was about $200.00. They will bark orders at you, so if you are a very sensitive metro type, you may not like it, but they were efficient and kept the range safe.

I believe I shot about four hundred rounds, but I qualified with three guns. With fewer guns you will shoot a little less.

I would definately go back to FTA for their range instruction. Their classroom lecture??? I'm not so sure.
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Last edited by Mauserguy; 12-05-2014 at 9:06 AM..
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Old 12-05-2014, 9:49 AM
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Excellent thread, Doheny!

A couple suggestions, if we could get some specifics, like location of activities and if shooting and classroom are near each other, weekend versus weekday, and how tough/back logged to get into a class, cost, and ammo requirements, that would be FANTASTIC.

of course, this is coming from someone looking for instructors right now.
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Old 12-05-2014, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauserguy View Post
I did FTA in July. This is out at Rauhauge's in Norco. The classroom instruction was a little sketchy- they insisted a loaded magazine was a loaded gun under the law and would get you arrested. No kidding.

The range day, however, was excellent, like a mini-Front Sight class. The cost was about $200.00. They will bark orders at you, so if you are a very sensitive metro type, you may not like it, but they were efficient and kept the range safe.

I believe I shot about four hundred rounds, but I qualified with three guns. With fewer guns you will shoot a little less.

I would definately go back to FTA for their range instruction. Their classroom lecture??? I'm not so sure.
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FTA teaches on the safe side, if you want to stretch it against their advice it's all on you. But if you want to shade tree lawyer, you might want to keep it to yourself.....
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Old 12-05-2014, 5:39 PM
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FTA teaches on the safe side, if you want to stretch it against their advice it's all on you. But if you want to shade tree lawyer, you might want to keep it to yourself.....

There's nothing wrong with him voicing his opinion on his classroom experience with FTA. Plenty of others have made similar comments about FTA, so it appears to be a trend.
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Old 12-05-2014, 5:47 PM
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Sketchy would be information that would put you at risk.
Erring on the safe side, well, it's not like we take all advice at face value anyway.
Other instructors that just hand you a book to take home without classroom instruction is far more "sketch"
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Old 12-05-2014, 5:48 PM
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With respect to legal aspects, some instructors will err on the side of safe harbor. That is to say, they will give you guidance that is least likely in their opinion to put you at risk of legal entanglements. That can be far different from what you might interpret the law to allow. It would be nice if instructors identified these decisions so you understood that was the case. Otherwise some students might interpret the instruction as being inaccurate when it is intended to be how to stay out of trouble in the first place.
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Old 12-05-2014, 9:24 PM
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I think I touched a nerve.

I won't get into a debate here. Life is too short for that. As I stated, FTA's range program was excellent. Yes, I recomend FTA, but they could improve in the classroom portion.
Mauserguy
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  #9  
Old 12-05-2014, 9:31 PM
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Default FTA

I did FTA in November. I think it was $179 + $50 for my two other guns, so $229 total. They provide a basic lunch on site. Was not hard to sign up--I only signed up a week or two in advance of the class. Their web site shows what days are available. It was a Saturday/Sunday class. You will spend the full 16 hours there, down to the last minute. Frankly part of the reason I picked them--even though other classes are closer to my home--is I did not want to spend the two days indoors. The outdoor range is much more comfortable. Shot nearly 200 rounds for the first gun and a full 75 on each of the other two, so pretty much a full 350 rounds.

I pretty much agree with Mauserguy's assessment. They did a great job with range safety. There were about 30 students, so there were at least 4 instructors on the firing line to supervise 15 shooters. The lecturer was a good speaker, but most of the day Saturday was spent going through a book of gun laws (but they don't give you the book). I would like to have heard more practical guidance on concealed carry. But overall I think the class was a very good experience, and I would certainly give them a favorable recommendation. I will probably take another of their classes in the future, when time permits.
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Old 12-07-2014, 9:43 PM
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Just wrapped up my training at Fast OC in Orange. Awesome experience with the guys there!

$175 covered everything, including additional firearms qualifications.

8 hours of class, 8 hours on the range at Evans (down the street), broken up unto equal parts each day. Shot about 500 rounds. Qualified with 3 guns.

They are also hosting a 1x month IDPA style shoot at Evans in Orange as well.

Two big thumbs up to Lance, Chris, and the crew!
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Old 12-20-2014, 9:39 PM
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I went and took the Utah / AZ / Fl today at South District Training in Santa Ana (Dyer & 55) and couldn't recommend them more. Zero "I know everything" attitude. Good guys and the price is reasonable...they have pricing on their website.

For the CCW classes they use Evans for qualifying.
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  #12  
Old 12-20-2014, 11:51 PM
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Default Orange County: Instructor Review & Recommendation Thread

/\ is there any shooting in that class or is it all classroom?
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  #13  
Old 12-21-2014, 8:14 AM
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4 hours of classroom for UT/AZ/FL. Those states don't require qualifying. The cards will just say "Handgun" on the back.
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Old 12-21-2014, 8:39 AM
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Roger that. Thanks.
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Old 12-22-2014, 1:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb_haney View Post
Just wrapped up my training at Fast OC in Orange. Awesome experience with the guys there!



$175 covered everything, including additional firearms qualifications.



8 hours of class, 8 hours on the range at Evans (down the street), broken up unto equal parts each day. Shot about 500 rounds. Qualified with 3 guns.



They are also hosting a 1x month IDPA style shoot at Evans in Orange as well.



Two big thumbs up to Lance, Chris, and the crew!

I second this post. These guys know what they are talking about. I can't say enough good things about these guys. They make the training realistic and practical for real life applications. Also, they know how to joke and have fun. Check them out.


Also, the IDPA shooting they put on is every second and fourth Thursday of the month. Lots of fun too.
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Old 12-22-2014, 1:42 PM
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+1 for FTA.
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  #17  
Old 12-22-2014, 9:00 PM
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Have been talking with ben hanson of californiagunpermit.com and he has been very quick to respond, but i dont take the class till beginning of jan. Ill get back after the class is over.
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Old 01-02-2015, 9:53 PM
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Just finished day one with Ben Hansen of californiagunpermit.com, class was informative, and fun. We received free black hawk holsters and training firearms, and ran plenty of scenario drills. We also got to use Sirt training pistols and laserlyte targets, which was pretty cool. I'll post more tomorrow when i have completed the course.

Last edited by Staticsouls; 01-03-2015 at 11:31 PM..
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Old 01-03-2015, 11:18 PM
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Just got home from Day two, and range day with Hansen firearms training. The range time was awesome. We did not do the boring 24 shot at each distance for each weapon. Ben had use run practical drills at the required distances, rapid fire, reloading, assessing the target, hip shooting, and a few other types of shooting that I had not done before. Honestly I am kinda bummed that it is over, but excite that I am this much closer to getting my permit. I would give Ben Hansen two thumb way up, and will definitely be attending more of his classes!

Forgot to mention this class is $170 and includes up to three guns with no extra charge

Last edited by Staticsouls; 01-06-2015 at 7:38 PM.. Reason: added content
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Old 01-04-2015, 12:13 AM
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Nice. Thx for the review.
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Old 01-04-2015, 1:49 AM
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I Did mine on Dec 14th with Security Training Center, LLC. The instructor was Jim Bowen. It was held at The Firing Line in Huntington Beach.

I went with the class because it was just down the street from me, and it was a one day offering on Sunday. It was a plus for me to get it done in one day. Class was $150 and $20 extra per gun that you qualifying with.

Class started at 10am. It was a class of about 14 people, in a kind of cramped room with uncomfortable folding chairs. It was filled with mainly people in their 40's. We had 3 women in the class, and 2 seniors as well. It started with a little bit of talking with the instructor, his background and a bit of power point presentations. The power point didn't have much to do about CCW, it was more of basic gun knowledge.

We started watching a few videos presented by "the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network".

The first video was a talking featuring Massad Ayoob. The video was incredibly poor and hardly audible.

After the first video, we broke for lunch. Took an hour to come back to 3 more videos from the same maker. The next videos were better, but I can't say I really didn't learn much. Even for a person of practically no gun knowledge, I can't say there is much for them either.

The Instructor did say a few weird things. He told us we cannot carry on school grounds unless we have express consent from supervision. On the break I asked him about 626.9(l) which has an exemption for licensed CCW holders (to my understanding), and he still said nope.

The test was incredibly basic. 50 questions and along with 2 diagrams of a Beretta 92 and a Smith Revolver. We had to label the parts. I was the first one done with the test. We very quickly ran over the parts of the gun on power point, and I suspect thats what was giving most people trouble while taking the test.

He gave the class the option to either take a dinner break or power through it. We all chose to skip the dinner break.

Qualifications was a joke to say the least. We were not watched during this time. We had a card laid out on what to shoot. It was only 50 rounds per gun.

(this may not be 100% correct, but it was something like this)

1st round was load (6) rounds and do (3) double taps at 10 ft
2nd round was load (6) rounds and do (2) triple taps at 10 ft
3rd round was load (6) rounds and fire strong hand 15 ft
4th round was load (6) rounds and fire weak hand at 15 ft
5th was to o do (7) rounds squatting 15 ft
6th was to shoot (5) rounds, reload and shoot (5) rounds 15 ft
7th was to shoot (7) rounds standing normal 15 ft

He did not make us shoot past 15ft

repeat again for additional guns.

After I was done, I took my targets to him sitting on the bench, signing off on the paperwork. He never did look at my targets. Maybe he knew I was a good shot? Who knows.

I handed over my guns, he wrote down the Make/Model/Serial #/Caliber on my sheet, handed it over, and I went on my way. I qualified 2 guns, and was one of the first ones out of there. I left right before 9pm.


It was just a hoop to jump through to get my permit. All in all, I can't say I really learned much , but that is probably because I read more than the active ccw'er? The class was alright. Will the average joe learn much? I don't think so. But, the more armed citizens we have, the better.
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Old 01-04-2015, 8:31 AM
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Does your certificate state you completed 16 hours or training?
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Old 01-04-2015, 9:06 AM
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I took mine from Artemis Defense Institute ([http://www.artemisdefenseinstitute.com) a few weeks ago. It was in four phases. First was classroom where the instructor (Steve) went through all the legal stuff. It was pretty detailed as he is an attorney as well as being a firearms instructor.

Second phase was in the afternoon of the first day where we went to their simulator area and Steve and his two assistants went through everyone's weapons showing trigger breaks, and tactical reloads and have everyone drill and demonstrate, as well as making sure people were familiar with their weapons. We also got a chance to use their simulators on targets.

Third phase was the next day at Prado shooting range. We shot at 3,5,7 yards for qualification, and 10 yards for fun. There were additional personnel free lancing from OCSD on the range as well as an EMT, just in case. There were four SOs for 8-9 people on the line while shooting. They were also helpful and instructive to those that were not as familiar or competent with their weapon as one should be.

Once everyone finished with weapon one, then the same thing was repeated for those wanting to qualify with weapon two and three if desired.

After lunch (fourth phase) we reconvened at their facility again, finished one more training module, took the test, and also watched one randomly selected person go through a force on force scenario on one of their simulators. That was very instructive as well.

All in all, I would whole heartedly recommend them. More information and schedules is on their web site.
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Old 01-04-2015, 9:39 AM
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Does your certificate state you completed 16 hours or training?
Yes
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Old 01-06-2015, 11:11 AM
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I did Greg Block's course last night, at Evans right off the 57 and Ball.

Crowded, standing room only. I was fortunate to get a heads up, so I arrived almost an hour early. They take shooting strings starting with the front row, so I was out pretty quickly.

Greg is a good speaker, and his course materials are extensive. This class was a brief lecture about CCW in general, some discussion of holster options and firearms as they were inspecting the qual arms, then shooting.

The next session is a question and answer re the materials, and it's open ended, you are provided a variety of dates you can return, in case you need more time.

Very geared towards qualification. They did mention that any new shooters would be put with an instructor who knew they needed help in basics.

$230 for three handguns. They do inspect the weapons, in our class there was a Beretta (iirc) with a broken safety that was rejected, and a high standard .22 with a sub 2 lb trigger that was rejected. He also had a guy with optics on Glocks swap the slides.

I beleive Greg will give a Utah and Florida CCW, or credential to get one, if you ask. I'm not that far yet, but good to know.

As far as I can tell, add a gun is $30, and you show up and shoot while the regular class is starting.

Clean and fast, and apparently they are able to get you in right away, I think my dad called last week and got us in a Monday course.

Like Bumslie, I just wanted to check the box, and this course was fine for that.

I qualified with a Glock 27, a Colt Commanding Officers model, and the seecamp .32.

I will finish the course later this week, and report back on a final, but for anyone who already knows how to shoot who needs to get in and out, this works.
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Old 01-07-2015, 1:30 PM
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I took TJ's course (AllSafe Defense) a couple of weeks ago. It is an EXCELLENT course with challenging courses of fire, including low light and moving, including moving targets.

It really shows students their weaknesses and where they need to practice / improve.

The classroom portion was also great. I highly recommend all of TJ's classes.
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Old 01-09-2015, 10:36 AM
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I finished Greg Block's course last night. Quick and to the point, this was a question and answer period where he insisted everyone ask a question about the voluminous materials provided.

As with the initial classroom and range portion, no muss, no fuss, I paid my money and have my cert.

Not for someone just starting out, but if you know your way around a firearm, this was easy to schedule and drama free.
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Old 01-09-2015, 9:37 PM
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I will add an additional comment for Artemis Defense Institute, which is they are offering two services in addition to the CCW training course.

They offer pre-CCW training course that provides insight into gun selection, holsters, etc.

They also offer post CCW training in a force on force simulated environment. Unlike paintball or video games, they work on your 360 degree situational awareness, and at the higher level the ability to recognize, engage and survive in a multi threat encounter. You learn to fight after being hit (80,000 volt hit).

It's an environment where using their equipment you can exercise everything from drawing from various holster positions, to purses, garter holsters, etc for women. (or if you carry in a backpack or briefcase). Something you just can't do at most ranges.

I think were seeing a lot of good trainers in the pipe now, but training to deal with situations, such as innocents in the background, multiple treat force on force in a well presented environment isn't widely available. Perhaps most valuable is your video taped, and your shots are presented as are the hostile force. You find out real fast if your really doing what you think you are, or not.

I shoot IDPA, practice hard, shoot a lot, but when standing in the office shooting scenario, against a disgruntled employee with an AR, and an accomplice, I was intimidated. In IDPA I don't have to really look behind me. I know the course of fire, no one is shooting back.

Their basic training gives you that added insight. Tanks didn't say if the randomly selected individual was wired up to the fire system?
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Old 01-09-2015, 9:46 PM
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...
Their basic training gives you that added insight. Tanks didn't say if the randomly selected individual was wired up to the fire system?
He was, and he did get zapped .
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Old 01-09-2015, 10:15 PM
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He was, and he did get zapped .
Really focuses your attention doesn't it? Have to engage the threat quickly effectively and still keep your head on a swivel.

Makes it tougher when your attacker has decided to wear body armor taking away that center mass shot.

Did you get to keep the book?
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Old 01-10-2015, 10:09 AM
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+1 for Artemis!
Highly recommend for CCW and LEO's
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Old 01-12-2015, 11:57 PM
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I took mine from Artemis Defense Institute ([http://www.artemisdefenseinstitute.com) a few weeks ago. It was in four phases. First was classroom where the instructor (Steve) went through all the legal stuff. It was pretty detailed as he is an attorney as well as being a firearms instructor.

Second phase was in the afternoon of the first day where we went to their simulator area and Steve and his two assistants went through everyone's weapons showing trigger breaks, and tactical reloads and have everyone drill and demonstrate, as well as making sure people were familiar with their weapons. We also got a chance to use their simulators on targets.

Third phase was the next day at Prado shooting range. We shot at 3,5,7 yards for qualification, and 10 yards for fun. There were additional personnel free lancing from OCSD on the range as well as an EMT, just in case. There were four SOs for 8-9 people on the line while shooting. They were also helpful and instructive to those that were not as familiar or competent with their weapon as one should be.

Once everyone finished with weapon one, then the same thing was repeated for those wanting to qualify with weapon two and three if desired.

After lunch (fourth phase) we reconvened at their facility again, finished one more training module, took the test, and also watched one randomly selected person go through a force on force scenario on one of their simulators. That was very instructive as well.

All in all, I would whole heartedly recommend them. More information and schedules is on their web site.
Another +1 for Artemis. Just finished their CCW course and would recommend them highly to anyone. Their class sizes are small. There were 8 of us. I feel this allowed for a more casual, non-intimidating learning environment. They also have a small continental breakfast on day one (bagels, coffee, orange juice, healthy snacks, etc.) The live fire qualification involved 2 sets of 4 people out on the firing line, and there were 4 RSOs/Instructors (including 1 EMT) right along side. Very personalized training if that's what you seek or are not very proficient in handling your firearm. Be sure to have appropriate OWB holsters and mag carriers for your primary carry gun, because they are required for the live fire qualification as well as some dry fire instruction on day one.
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Old 01-13-2015, 12:27 AM
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many thanks to Doheny for another value packed ccw thread

I attended TJ's class back in May and had a great time.. TJ's class is action packed and after only open carrying in the military for 20 years, I learned a quite a bit about civilian concealed carry

both Doheny and my long time goto FFL Jim Bowen recommended him and they were both spot on, thank you..

while conducting my monthly FFL business with Jim recently, he mentioned that he was now on the OCSD approved list for ccw.. I've been going to him for several years now for the best transfer rates in town.. shipped in transfers just recently went up to $60 and was only $50 since I started going there.. PPT's are brief and comfortable, just be patient when they are processing students for the various training they provide..

can't speak for Jim as an instructor, but he's a helluva cool guy to talk about guns with.. and at just under a mile away, I'll be there for gun adds and renewals
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  #34  
Old 02-18-2015, 9:03 AM
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bump. good thread.

looking at getting my training requirement done. does anyone know if its best to get this done before or after the initial appointment? thx for the spoon feeding
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Old 02-18-2015, 9:23 AM
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If anyone is interested or wishes to know what the OCSD requires for training, it is posted in their policy available on their website (http://ocsd.org/civicax/filebank/blo...x?BlobID=24223). The relevant portions are as follows:

218.9 CCW TRAINING PROVIDERS
As part of the state requirements under Penal Code 26165, the course of training for issuance of a license may be any course acceptable to the Sheriff’s Department, shall not exceed sixteen (16) hours, and shall include instruction on at least firearms safety and the law regarding the permissible use of a firearm. For license renewal applicants, the course of training shall be no less than four (4) hours.

The Orange County Sheriff’s Department (OCSD) requires that the training provided include classroom instruction and successful completion of a written examination and a practical application shooting examination. At minimum, the course must provide instruction on current applicable firearm laws, weapons safety and include hands on training. Training providers must impress upon the students the grand importance and responsibility of being licensed to carry a loaded firearm. The goal of this program is to ensure that the citizens of Orange County are provided with high quality firearms training.

The guidelines provided are minimums and not intended to be totally comprehensive.

218.10 TRAINING PROVIDER APPROVAL PROCESS
(a) Instructor Certification

1. Training providers must submit a copy of a valid form of photographic identification and proof of completion of an acceptable Firearms Instructor’s Certification Course for each individual firearms instructor. Examples of acceptable courses may include, but are not limited to, courses offered by;

• • A federal, state, or municipal law enforcement agency • A branch of the United States military • The California Bureau of Security and Investigative Services (BSIS) • The National Rifle Association

(b) Course Materials 1. Training providers must submit their course syllabus, course materials (i.e., student materials, handouts, written examination, practical application outline, etc.) and course(s) of fire to the OCSD for review and consideration. If approved, training providers will be added to the approved training provider list maintained by the CCW Licensing Unit.

218.11 MINIMUM STANDARDS OUTLINE
The learning objectives for the Concealed Weapons Training course shall not exceed sixteen (16) hours of training for an initial license and shall not be less than four (4) hours of training for a license renewal.

Students will be required to:

• Understand and demonstrate adequate knowledge of handgun safety and handling (to include cleaning, disassembly and assembly) and handgun storage.
• Understand and demonstrate adequate knowledge of techniques and equipment used to safely carry weapons, retain control of weapons and avoid unwarranted detection of weapons.
• Understand and demonstrate adequate knowledge of California Penal Code sections relating to firearms and sections dealing with the permissible use of a firearm.
• Understand and demonstrate adequate knowledge of locations where firearm possession is prohibited (i.e. air travel).
• Understand and demonstrate adequate knowledge of civil and penal liability laws regarding firearms for the state of California.

Prior to the live fire course, each handgun must be checked for safe and mechanically sound condition. All safety considerations and precautions must be taken during live fire and weapon handling. The student must demonstrate shooting proficiency and safe technique for all weapons to be listed on the CCW license.

Sample Course of Fire

The course of fire utilized by the Sheriff’s Department is as follows:

• A passing score of 70% on a live fire course using the same weapon(s) that will be listed on the license. The live fire course will be at minimum, 72 total rounds fired at standard silhouette B-27 scoring targets placed 3, 5 and 7 yards from the shooter; 24 rounds per distance. The live fire course should be conducted after the classroom portion of the certification course.
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Old 02-19-2015, 11:31 PM
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INSIDE FT3.COM RANGE, STANTON, CALIFORNIA
AllSafe Defense Systems
1026 N Tustin Street
Orange, CA 92867
714-744-4485
Instructor: TJ Johnston
www.allsafedefense.com
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Old 02-20-2015, 4:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanse Davion View Post
...
Students will be required to:

Understand and demonstrate adequate knowledge of handgun safety and handling (to include cleaning, disassembly and assembly) and handgun storage.
...
Hmmm, my course did not cover demonstration of cleaning, disassembly and assembly. Having talked to some others, theirs did not either.
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Old 02-22-2015, 6:46 PM
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Orange County Sheriff’s Department 16-Hour Initial CCW Training
Falcon Operations Group
Date: February 21-22 (Sat & Sun), 2015
Location: Field Time Target & Training (FT3)

I attended this class, this was my first time training with Falcon Operations Group.

A big thank you goes out to Ian, Paul and Gabe. They are true professionals and presented the required course material as out lined by OCSD for the 16 hour training requirement to standard.

After signing up you will be email a welcome letter that has the course outline, recommended reading and some online videos. The required gear list and directions to the training location are also included.

They stressed three main pillars of their course, safety, learning and fun.

I would recommend this class for those seeking their CCW in Orange County and their experience with firearms ranges from brand new to moderate experience level. A more advanced shooter will most likely find the pace to slow.

The days were split into two blocks of instruction, 7am-11am was on the range, 1 hour lunch break then into 4 hours of academics ending on time at 4pm.

The range opened up for us at 6:30am to get any misc. paperwork out out the way and our weapons checked so we could be on the range and ready to train promptly at 7am.

We started with a safety brief which covered the four basic rules of firearms safety, range commands and medical. (Gabe was the designated "medic" for the weekend.)

The walk, crawl, run method of training was used. The first three hours were dry fire training as we worked through basic firearm manipulation, loading, un-loading and showing clear and getting use to following range commands. Then we worked on our draw stroke and trigger manipulation. Work was first done without the concealment garment then with.

We broke for a 1 hour lunch then got right into the classroom. Ian has put together a solid presentation which uses a mix of lecture, video and class discussion.

Day 2 began much the same as day 1. Safety brief, range commands and medical considerations in the event of emergency. We then warmed up with a brief dry fire, then began with a "raged hole" drill to warm up. Moved into live fire from concealment and preparing for the course of fire for qualification. Qualification was un eventful and all students passed with 100% hits inside of the target. OCSD only wants a 70% hit rate. Falcon trained us to produce qualified students with zero misses.

After lunch more classroom, a test review and then a 30 question multiple choice test. The test was not hard after receiving such quality instruction but it was also not just a "gimme" test. You really were tested on the information you learned over the last two days.

We wrapped up with an after action report. The instructor wanted to know what was good and what needed improvement. We were presented with our Certificates and then all three instructors made themselves available to answer any additional questions and were still there after I thanked them and said goodbye.

Bottom line, if you want to learn not only the shooting aspect of concealed carry but also the legal side and not just pay someone for a mandatory piece of paper then you will be very happy with the training provided by the team from Falcon Operations Group.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:48 AM
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Thank you for the great AAR!
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Old 02-26-2015, 8:55 AM
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Where is Californiagunpermit.com (Ben Hansen) located? Thanks. I understand they may change locations depending on class size, but just wondering where their typical locations are.
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