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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 10-02-2006, 3:15 PM
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Default Effect of Foley & school shootings to Nov elections?

With the recent school shootings, 3 in the last week and former Rep. Mark Foley could the GOP lose the house and senate this fall? The Foley matter may involve a cover up by GOP leadership...The media feeding frenzy is extreme..


If the GOP loses congress, can we see another Federal AW ban? If not this year after 2008?

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2006, 3:22 PM
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If they do lose, they MIGHT and there is a good chance they will. Of course, if they're stupid, they will put it back in place but in turn will be committing political hara-kiri.
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Old 10-02-2006, 3:24 PM
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They won't need to wait until 2008, Bush already said he would sign it. What does it matter to us? We already have an AWB.
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Old 10-02-2006, 3:27 PM
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I'm a Republican and I feel like staying home come November. Of course I won't (I've voted in every general election since I was eligible in 1980) but still it's hard to defend the Republican controlled House and especially the Senate. If they lose their majority they will have nobody to blame but themselves.

And count on the Dems to quickly press their agenda.
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Old 10-02-2006, 3:29 PM
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In 2009 Hillary or some other Democrat may be president. If congress is not under GOP control a new Fed AWB is likey.

I am thinking about our friends in Free America and how it will effect them..
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  #6  
Old 10-02-2006, 3:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas_223
In 2009 Hillary or some other Democrat may be president. If congress in in GOP control a new Fed AWB will never get to the Pres..I am thinking about our friends in Free America..
I don't have much love for our Free America "friends". I have been looked down upon and chastised for being a Californian too long. Part of me would love to see them remember what it feels like to be a subject again, because they don't seem to care about our plight.

The Foley thing is much more damaging than any school shooting.
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  #7  
Old 10-02-2006, 3:38 PM
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Just remember. The Democrats have a tendancy to screw up every oppertunity they have, especially on the national level. *November* "Look, we're ahead according to media polls, we're winning! We're winning!" *one day later* "How did we lose?"

But yeah, the evil part of me wants to see the rest of Free America to re-learn what it was like to deal with the same BS we deal with everyday, but unfortunately I have Christian values which tell me that I shouldn't wish bad things upon others.
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  #8  
Old 10-02-2006, 3:41 PM
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I'd like to use the word BACKFIRE. Those Foley IM's are up to 3 years old. So who had them? Why were they not made public years ago if the aim was to protect teenagers? This smacks of an October suprise that was held until it was too late for the republicans substitute a candidate. I remember when Davis tried this crap at the eleventh hr against Schwarzenegger and it went boom in his face. There is plenty of time for the Foley thing to do the same as the people who kept those IM's hidden till now are discovered and their reasons revealed. Using teenagers who are being 'abused' as pawns in politics is discusting.

As for the shootings, I don't get it. What's with these madmen and schoolchildren. This helps neither republicans or democrats, sorry. Anybody who tries to use tragedy for politics deserves nothing better than a manure shoveling job .

Frankly, the Dems hope to win by keeping the Republicans home. Get out and vote, don't let them make you walk away from your most important freedom.
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Old 10-02-2006, 3:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Soup Nazi
Just remember. The Democrats have a tendency to screw up every opportunity they have, especially on the national level. .
I think you hit the nail on the head. If the Democrats were organized enough to get drunk in a beer factory then we would have nothing but airsoft guns now.
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Old 10-03-2006, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_brit_05
I think you hit the nail on the head. If the Democrats were organized enough to get drunk in a beer factory then we would have nothing but airsoft guns now.
You would know better than anyone else. Isn't that what happened in Great Britain?
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Old 10-03-2006, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stag1500
You would know better than anyone else. Isn't that what happened in Great Britain?
Don't knock the British as it is a little known fact that they are still allowed hanguns. Just the muzzle loading single shot variety. You need to apply to separate Government agencies for permits for the pistol and permits for the powder. You can only have a small amount of powerer etc.

I went shooting when back for a visit in June and it was sad. They are allowed 50 cal rifles so they have one thing on us.
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Old 10-03-2006, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms
I don't have much love for our Free America "friends". I have been looked down upon and chastised for being a Californian too long. Part of me would love to see them remember what it feels like to be a subject again, because they don't seem to care about our plight.

The Foley thing is much more damaging than any school shooting.
10% it's probably easy for me to say as all I catch is on firearms boards, and I'm not "in" the industry in any way, but that is the wrong attitude.

Although any idiot outside Cali who talks trash about us (like the Nevadans in the OLL shoot thread on ARF) is doing damage to the whole cause of the second amendment, we are too if we say screw them, who cares.

Or, serves them right! When they ask me why I'm such a sissy and not out shooting politicians, I ask them where they were when their AWBs were banned...

Don't submit to the divide and conquer of the gun grabbers...
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Old 10-03-2006, 1:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms
They won't need to wait until 2008, Bush already said he would sign it. What does it matter to us? We already have an AWB.
Well actually it used to matter because if a new fed ban came along and we were stuck in Cali we'd never get anything cool. But since last fall we've all had our hands in the cookie jar so everything's good !
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Old 10-03-2006, 1:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvtolean
10% it's probably easy for me to say as all I catch is on firearms boards, and I'm not "in" the industry in any way, but that is the wrong attitude.

Although any idiot outside Cali who talks trash about us (like the Nevadans in the OLL shoot thread on ARF) is doing damage to the whole cause of the second amendment, we are too if we say screw them, who cares.

Or, serves them right! When they ask me why I'm such a sissy and not out shooting politicians, I ask them where they were when their AWBs were banned...

Don't submit to the divide and conquer of the gun grabbers...
Don't get me wrong, I won't let it happen nor will I try to make it happen. If it does happen, then so be it. Part of me will enjoy watching them have to be on our team again. The self righteous attitude of non-Californians towards Californians annoys me.
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Old 10-03-2006, 1:52 PM
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Old 10-03-2006, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzvia
I'd like to use the word BACKFIRE. Those Foley IM's are up to 3 years old. So who had them? Why were they not made public years ago if the aim was to protect teenagers? This smacks of an October suprise that was held until it was too late for the republicans substitute a candidate. I remember when Davis tried this crap at the eleventh hr against Schwarzenegger and it went boom in his face. There is plenty of time for the Foley thing to do the same as the people who kept those IM's hidden till now are discovered and their reasons revealed. Using teenagers who are being 'abused' as pawns in politics is discusting.

As for the shootings, I don't get it. What's with these madmen and schoolchildren. This helps neither republicans or democrats, sorry. Anybody who tries to use tragedy for politics deserves nothing better than a manure shoveling job .

Frankly, the Dems hope to win by keeping the Republicans home. Get out and vote, don't let them make you walk away from your most important freedom.
Exactly. Why did they wait to release this information so close to an election? Not much different than Angelides threatening to release tapes of Arnold discussing hot tempers from black and latin blood ancestory.

As for a gun tragedy impacting firearms laws, does anybody remember Patrick Purdy in a Stockton schoolyard shooting? It spawned the Federal AWB and the Robertti-Roos California version! Don't underestimate the Dems ability to exploit any tragedy that can further their agenda.
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Old 10-03-2006, 2:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw Josey Wales
Don't underestimate the Dems ability to exploit any tragedy that can further their agenda.
Don't underestimate the probability that they might arrange for things like this to happen too. I keep wondering - we have LOTS of uber-militant anti gun folks. When are we going to find out that there's a group out there that organizes things like this in order to add fuel to the ban-guns fire? Yeah, I know, break out the tinfoil - but sadly enough, in America it would actually work.
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Old 10-03-2006, 4:03 PM
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San Francisco's Board of Supervisors were waiting with baited breath to start rounding up handguns and prosecuting otherwise law abiding citizens after the passage of Prop H. But when a Bay View gang member killed Issac Espinoza of the SFPD, with an AK-47 we see just how serious they are about prosecuting real criminals. District Attorney Kamala Harris refuses to seek the death penalty in this case and will pursue life in prison instead.

I'm sure that the establishment in SF feels that this gang member, David Hill, had no choice since he came from a disadvantaged background etc. He needs rehabilitation. Where as law abiding gun owners who have committed no crime require recondidtioning.
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Old 10-04-2006, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms
They won't need to wait until 2008, Bush already said he would sign it...
I don't know anyone in the Bush Whitehouse, but I know folks that do. To my knowledge, the only thing the President ever said regarding AW's is "If it gets on my desk, I will sign it." Gun-owners of little faith immediately saw this as a betrayal, but the only subtext that I've ever heard in those words was a challenge to Sarah Brady.

To me, "If it gets on my desk..." always translated to "If you can manage to get an AW ban through a GOP House and a GOP senate, with all I'm going to do behind the scenes to stop it..." Of course, the "shorter" challenge was first voiced at a crucial time - when Mr. Bush was under the microscope of an anti-gun media in his 2000 campaign, being contrasted with Algore's penchant to continue Clinton's dastardly anti-freedom work. And I don't think the President ever expounded on or explained his challenge, but merely repeated it verbatim when asked about it.

IMO, we are LUCKY (if you believe in "luck" :-) that President Bush's words were MIS-interpreted by the press to mean he supported the AW ban. After all, that misconception may have cost Algore the election, having confused voters who would have voted against a pro-gun candidate.

And IMO, we're LUCKY that the press still hadn't figured it out by Sept. 13 of 2004 (sunset of Feinstein's ban). Oh, the antis tried to clear up the misconception, with their charges that the President was quietly working against the AW ban while still publicly parroting that badly-worded sentence "If it gets on my desk..." (And we all know the President has linguistic problems sometimes :-)

So when I hear a Bush nominee up before the senate state that they support the President's position on the AW ban (as Roberts did), I think I hear a completely different message than gun activists who have less faith in the President's dedication to the Second Amendment. I respond with a "You go, dude..."

Mike
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Old 10-04-2006, 12:28 PM
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hrm...pennsylvania's governor admits that more gun control wouldn't have helped the amish school kids:

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=73701
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Old 10-04-2006, 1:30 PM
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I think this Foley thing is going to get worse. I think the Foley thing could be the nail in the coffin for the Republicans.
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  #22  
Old 10-04-2006, 3:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grammaton76
Don't underestimate the probability that they might arrange for things like this to happen too. I keep wondering - we have LOTS of uber-militant anti gun folks. When are we going to find out that there's a group out there that organizes things like this in order to add fuel to the ban-guns fire? Yeah, I know, break out the tinfoil - but sadly enough, in America it would actually work.
Is it possible, the blue-helmet commandos comes to mind.
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Old 10-04-2006, 4:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehaas
To me, "If it gets on my desk..." always translated to "If you can manage to get an AW ban through a GOP House and a GOP senate, with all I'm going to do behind the scenes to stop it..."
I think pure bluff in an attempt to not tick off the antis would be a better way to describe it. But it still made me mad to hear. Remerks like that hurt in the long run, where it really counts.
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Old 10-04-2006, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rips31
hrm...pennsylvania's governor admits that more gun control wouldn't have helped the amish school kids:

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=73701
Great new item. Thanks for posting.
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