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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-27-2011, 11:43 PM
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Mayors Against Illegal Guns has a travelling dog and pony show demanding the Fed "fix gun checks" or something like that. They've a travelling billboard that's gonna keep a tally of Americans "murdered" with guns.

They hope to enact a system where strangers can report citizens as mentally unstable or drug users. Those citizens would then be added to a secret list which would be consulted every time they went to purchase a firearm. There wouldn't be any chance to challenge the initial report. In essence, strangers could deprive you of YOUR rights without the opportunity for you to dispute the allegations.

It appears that in addition to the 2nd Amendment, Mayor Bloomberg, MAIG and the rest of the Antis think it's a swell idea to toss the Fifth Amendment in the trash, too.

The Illinois State Rifle Association and Citizens Committee for the Right To Keep and Bear Arms have decided to counter to MAIG's billboard folly. They got their own truck.
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[ISRA] will officially kick off a truck-mounted roving billboard campaign touting the public safety advantages of private firearm ownership. The roving billboard consists of two large truck-mounted panels advertising the fact that, on a daily basis, approximately 2,200 Americans utilize firearms to protect themselves from rape, robbery, murder and assault – a fact conveniently overlooked by the "mainstream media."
Let's get this straight. We are winning.

But we can't give ground. As CCRKBA and ISRA demonstrate, we have to oppose the antis at every turn. We can't give them anything. We need to fight them in the City Council chambers, on the editorial pages, in the Courts and in the realm of public opinion. We need to show up. To demonstrate that we're strong - that we're vigilant and that we're motivated. We need to be proactive and participate in events, as gun owners and activists. We need to assist allied parties, be it Hunter's Advocacy organizations or the Pink Pistols.

We can win this - we can win it all - but we cannot get complacent.

They sure won't.
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2011, 12:14 AM
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I too would like the feds and states to "fix gun checks" though I suspect my idea of "fixing" may be different than MAIG's.
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2011, 5:29 AM
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"...and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end... we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength...whatever the cost may be... we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender..."

-Churchill

I had to chop it up a bit to get rid of the part about fighting in the air and on the beaches, but you get the idea

Edit* So all LEGAL gun sales will require a background check? Wont that just drive PPT's underground? I mean let say you have two NON prohibited persons. Good ol boys from a free state that think liberal lawmakers are the scum of the earth etc... and one wants to sell a gun to the other. Bubba #1 sell his rifle to Bubba #2. Okay fine, the MAIG proposal only mandates background checks, how will anyone ever know if Bubba #2 got one? He is legally in possesion. Are you gonna have to get somekinda stamp to prove you dragged your *** to a third party to sell you personal property? How about a serial number tattoo?
Lets say bubba#2 turns out to be a illegalaliencommie-tear-o-wrist-wifebeaterherionaddict? Now what? Is he going to make sure he gets himself a background check from the crack dealer he buys a gun from? This whole thing is stupid, and I think that this feel good BS might fly in the rotten apple, but there's no way guys in the heartland are gonna jump through the hoops that we do.
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Old 02-28-2011, 6:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdberger View Post
They hope to enact a system where strangers can report citizens as mentally unstable or drug users. Those citizens would then be added to a secret list which would be consulted every time they went to purchase a firearm. There wouldn't be any chance to challenge the initial report. In essence, strangers could deprive you of YOUR rights without the opportunity for you to dispute the allegations.
Sounds a lot like a system similar to Tempoary Restraining Orders.

One person with no proof can get someone on a prohibitted list without even giving them a chance to challege the allegation.

This is beyond bad. Its pure evil!
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Old 02-28-2011, 7:22 AM
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I would like to see a truck following them around that had a billboard displaying the number of lives saved by the defensive use of firearms annually, which dwarf the number of gun deaths by at LEAST ten-fold.
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Old 02-28-2011, 7:31 AM
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This is yet another example why we need to shift our focus from squashing individual ants to getting rid of the anthills.
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In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
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Old 02-28-2011, 7:43 AM
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They did something similar to this in Salem, MA back in the late 1600's. It was kind of like what Senator McCarthy did in the 1950's.

They had a name for it..... what was it?
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Old 02-28-2011, 9:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro Pistolero View Post
I would like to see a truck following them around that had a billboard displaying the number of lives saved by the defensive use of firearms annually, which dwarf the number of gun deaths by at LEAST ten-fold.
Per the FBI almost 1,000,000 crimes prevented by the lawful use of firearms each year...that's 1 MILLION.
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.D.Allen View Post
Per the FBI almost 1,000,000 crimes prevented by the lawful use of firearms each year...that's 1 MILLION.
I'd love to see that statistic - got a link?

Rhetorical. No, actually you don't, because that kind of information cannot possibly be compiled, because it isn't reported. Who reports 'a crime did not happen just now'?

That sounds like a re-packaging of Kleck's survey data, and while I generally agree with Kleck's conclusion that firearms are used often to prevent crimes, and no shots are fired in the vast majority of those incidents, we don't have any real data on that. Certainly that's not an FBI (who gets most of their information from local LE as part of the Uniform Crime Reports) number.

Please don't overplay your (our) hand.
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:34 AM
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to counter I'd like to see a billboard with deaths due to alcohol and drunk driving.
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:54 AM
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The MAIG map:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...107.138672&z=4

One couldn't hand-pick a nastier bunch of crooked scumbags if one tried:

http://www.conservapedia.com/Mayors_...t_Illegal_Guns

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=143910
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
I'd love to see that statistic - got a link?

Rhetorical. No, actually you don't, because that kind of information cannot possibly be compiled, because it isn't reported. Who reports 'a crime did not happen just now'?

That sounds like a re-packaging of Kleck's survey data, and while I generally agree with Kleck's conclusion that firearms are used often to prevent crimes, and no shots are fired in the vast majority of those incidents, we don't have any real data on that. Certainly that's not an FBI (who gets most of their information from local LE as part of the Uniform Crime Reports) number.

Please don't overplay your (our) hand.
http://justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp#crime

Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18]

Sorry, I stand corrected, not from the FBI. I got that confused with something else.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.D.Allen View Post
http://justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp#crime

Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18]

Sorry, I stand corrected, not from the FBI. I got that confused with something else.
Interesting. Loftin and McDowell have generally released results more consistent with the anti position.
Quote:
Estimates of the incidence of victim gun use from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) are consistently lower than are those from other studies. To examine the divergence, we conducted a survey that gauged the impact of methodological differences between the NCVS and the other studies. For half of the sample, we asked questions from the NCVS, followed by questions from the other surveys. For the other half of the sample, we presented the questions in the reverse order. We examined two hypotheses: (1) survey methods account for the divergent results, and (2) the questions cover unrelated activities. The results provided some support for the first hypothesis, but respondents also reported many more defenses to the questions from the other surveys than to the NCVS questions. Consistent witht he second hypothesis, this suggests that the NCVS and the other surveys measure responses to largely different provocations.
I can't find the whole study on line, and neither professor McDowall nor Loftin have it on their Albany web pages. I'd expect, but cannot be sure, they would argue a lot of false positives in the responses.

The JustFacts folks do, indeed, use much the same methodology as Kleck.
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Unless there is some way to amend a bill so you would support it,
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Last edited by Librarian; 02-28-2011 at 1:03 PM..
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Old 02-28-2011, 1:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.D.Allen View Post
Per the FBI almost 1,000,000 crimes prevented by the lawful use of firearms each year...that's 1 MILLION.
If crimes were incapable of being prevented by firearms, we could save the money we spend purchasing them for police.

Since a cop's gun is primarily for crime prevention and not personal protection, guns must have some ability to stop crime.
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Old 02-28-2011, 1:45 PM
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Police sidearms are self defense weapons first and foremost, having the deterrent effect (where they do) because of the implied capability of instantaneous lethal force that stems from the arm being exposed.
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Old 02-28-2011, 2:08 PM
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Quote:
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Police sidearms are self defense weapons first and foremost,
This is the first time I have ever heard this claim.
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Old 02-28-2011, 2:12 PM
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They will never stop coming after us. We must be vigilant!
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Old 02-28-2011, 3:56 PM
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Quote:
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This is the first time I have ever heard this claim.
Handguns, with some exceptions, are generally defensive weapons. They give you time to fight your way to a rifle.

(I guess that you could exclude some guns meant for use by Cavalry, etc.)
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Old 02-28-2011, 4:01 PM
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It would be more effective to follow the truck with another billboard of: "Felons Released This Month In YOUR State XX,XXX"
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Old 02-28-2011, 8:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro Pistolero View Post
I would like to see a truck following them around that had a billboard displaying the number of lives saved by the defensive use of firearms annually, which dwarf the number of gun deaths by at LEAST ten-fold.
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Originally Posted by OC-Indian View Post
It would be more effective to follow the truck with another billboard of: "Felons Released This Month In YOUR State XX,XXX"
I think the Anti's truck should be followed by the truck touting the number of fatalities by cars and alchohol, then the car that has the number of crimes averted by firearms, with the Total Felons released counter chasing behind that.

Would be an awesome caravan going down the road.
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Old 02-28-2011, 8:15 PM
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Quoting Conservapedia is going to get us absolutely nowhere. Don't let anyone see this if they don't already agree with you. The more you know...
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