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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-21-2011, 11:38 AM
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Default Is a Colt LE6940 legal in CA?

Hello,
I will be moving to California from Utah in a few months. I own a Colt LE6940 rifle. I have heard that it IS legal, and from others I have heard that it IS NOT legal.

So which is it? Legal or not?

Also, if it is legal, is there anything I have to do to it before I bring it with me when I move.

I know that I cant bring the 30 round magazines with me, but what about the 6940 itself?

Thanks. John.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:40 AM
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http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:40 AM
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You would need to install a magazine lock...bullet button... in order to bring it in to CA. After adding the non-detachable magazine lock, you can only run 10-round magazines.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pointedstick View Post
thanks but that flow chart has seemd to be one of the points of confusion about people ive had the conversation with.

It doesnt specifically list the 6940 and I have heard different opinions about whether the 6940 would fall under the "all" category or not.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911su16b870 View Post
You would need to install a magazine lock...bullet button... in order to bring it in to CA. After adding the non-detachable magazine lock, you can only run 10-round magazines.
Ok thanks. So thats it? I can still keep the collapsable stock and pistol grip?

I assume I would need a gunsmith to do this for me since I dont have the tools or training?

Also, is that process reverseable? For example, if I move OUT of California one day, back to a gun friendly state, would I be able to REVERSE it and again be able to use 30 rounders, etc..
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:52 AM
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Francis, the bullet button is very easy to install and remove. You do not need a gunsmith for this, nor any training.

With the bullet button, you may have the pistol grip and collapsible stock. Just make sure any rifle you bring into the state exceeds 30" in length in its shortest configuration (stock collapsed or folded).

Your Colt is legal and the question was answered here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=194301

Welcome to the site and state!
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2600fromAtari View Post
Francis, the bullet button is very easy to install and remove. You do not need a gunsmith for this, nor any training.

With the bullet button, you may have the pistol grip and collapsible stock. Just make sure any rifle you bring into the state exceeds 30" in length in its shortest configuration (stock collapsed or folded).

Your Colt is legal and the question was answered here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=194301

Welcome to the site and state!
Great thanks for the info. Also, what about the "A2 Birdcage" muzzle break that comes on it? Is that legal?
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:06 PM
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Muzzle brakes are always legal. Do not use a flash hider on featureless rifles (your rifle has a detachable magazine and no evil feature like a pistol grip, collapsible stock, etc). Check out the first page of the flowchart posted by pointedstick.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:17 PM
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yes its ok in cali,its actually one of the off-list models.just make sure you you do the mods to it,bb and 10rd mags if you want to keep the "evil features".
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:26 PM
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The Colt 6940 is one of the four off-list Colt's. Check out/stop by Norse Armory in Woodland, we currently have one of each!! We have a 6940, two M4LE's, a Car-A3 HBAR Elite, and a Colt Carbine(Only 300-400 ever sold in U.S., VERY rare find). We can also get new/used Colt uppers. Ask for Pavel with regards to the Colt stuff...

www.norsearmory.net
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrancis56 View Post
Great thanks for the info. Also, what about the "A2 Birdcage" muzzle break that comes on it? Is that legal?
An A2 Bridcage is a Flash Suppresor, not a Muzzle Brake
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:55 PM
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The Colt's LE 6940 has the exact same lower as the LE 6920, which is banned by brand, model # and name under the Kasler list. Same rollmarks, same everything. The only difference is the upper, which can be swapped out in seconds.

So I would recommend thinking twice about bringing that into CA without an AW permit, unless you have a big bank account and know some really good & cheap lawyers. And don't mind potentially being arrested and charged with a felony.

Whether it's technically legal is open to interpretation; most on here would say yes.
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Old 02-21-2011, 1:37 PM
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i've seen them for sale at ammo bros so i would think that they are legal.
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Old 02-21-2011, 1:45 PM
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1911 sfca brings up a very good point. With Colt rifles, whatever is the roll mark is the key to legality here in CA. There has been some instances of different roll marks applied to different Colt models. So look at the AW flow chart, back list and see the banned by name Colt models : AR (all), Match Target (all) and see what your roll mark is.
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Old 02-21-2011, 1:46 PM
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Here is the 6940 Norse Armory link:

http://www.norsearmory.net/index.php...nmroq8h51ieb97
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Old 02-21-2011, 2:33 PM
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The roll mark doesn't matter in this case. The Colt 6940 IS legal, just keep the box, or even a letter from Colt verifying it's a 6940 and you're good. Don't worry about the worrywarts man, if you've got a real 6940 you're good to go.
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Old 02-21-2011, 2:36 PM
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installing a bullet button http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpztrlZwIc4
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Old 02-21-2011, 2:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyJ View Post
The roll mark doesn't matter in this case. The Colt 6940 IS legal, just keep the box, or even a letter from Colt verifying it's a 6940 and you're good. Don't worry about the worrywarts man, if you've got a real 6940 you're good to go.
I agree, if its legal-its legal! I doubt any legitimate store in CA would risk their business and liberty by selling a banned weapon, and since posting my original question I have come across quite a few stores in CA selling the 6940 (thanks to others replys).

One question I do have now is that since the 6940 does come with an A2 flash hider (I thought it was a muzzle break at first until someone above pointed it out), how are CA stores able to sell it, or do they recieve 6940's that dont have the flash hider?
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Old 02-21-2011, 2:43 PM
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There's a couple of legal ways to receive a 6940 in the state. Easiest is to have the gun split up and sent in in two packages, it's not a rifle in that state. You can also have a BB put on by a middle man FFL outside of the state as well. It's not just the flash hider that makes it evil and puppy killing. It's that damn pistol grip and collapsible stock as well!
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Old 02-21-2011, 2:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911_sfca View Post
The Colt's LE 6940 has the exact same lower as the LE 6920, which is banned by brand, model # and name under the Kasler list. Same rollmarks, same everything. The only difference is the upper, which can be swapped out in seconds.

So I would recommend thinking twice about bringing that into CA without an AW permit, unless you have a big bank account and know some really good & cheap lawyers. And don't mind potentially being arrested and charged with a felony.

Whether it's technically legal is open to interpretation; most on here would say yes.
This is opposite of the situatuation with Rock River Arms. The lower does not have a listed model name, but with a certain upper assembly, it becomes illegal.
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Old 02-21-2011, 2:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrancis56 View Post
One question I do have now is that since the 6940 does come with an A2 flash hider (I thought it was a muzzle break at first until someone above pointed it out), how are CA stores able to sell it, or do they recieve 6940's that dont have the flash hider?
You need to take another look at that flowchart. The "features" (i.e. flash hider, pistol grip, telestock) do not matter if you have a fixed mag, i.e. a bullet button. And the fact that you could NOT find it on the list of models is also why it is legal.
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Old 02-21-2011, 2:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyJ View Post
There's a couple of legal ways to receive a 6940 in the state. Easiest is to have the gun split up and sent in in two packages, it's not a rifle in that state. You can also have a BB put on by a middle man FFL outside of the state as well. It's not just the flash hider that makes it evil and puppy killing. It's that damn pistol grip and collapsible stock as well!
Well I already own one, I live in Utah and will be moving to CA.

So I just need to install a bullet button, leave the 30 round mags back in Utah, buy ten round mags for CA, and Im assuming I have to replace the A2 flash hider that it came with???

Any suggestions on what to replace the A2 flash hider with for it to be legal????
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Old 02-21-2011, 2:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
You need to take another look at that flowchart. The "features" (i.e. flash hider, pistol grip, telestock) do not matter if you have a fixed mag, i.e. a bullet button. And the fact that you could NOT find it on the list of models is also why it is legal.
LOL, ok thanks! So if I install the bullet button Im good to go in regards to the flash hider, pistol grip and telestock.

I guess why I got confused about its legallity is because of the Colt AR-15 (ALL) category. I assumed this meant that ALL Colt AR-15's are banned. Since the 6940 is a Colt AR-15, I assumed it was banned.
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Old 02-21-2011, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrancis56 View Post
Well I already own one, I live in Utah and will be moving to CA.

So I just need to install a bullet button, leave the 30 round mags back in Utah, buy ten round mags for CA, and Im assuming I have to replace the A2 flash hider that it came with???

Any suggestions on what to replace the A2 flash hider with for it to be legal????
NO. if you install the maglock, all evil features are legal. Pistol grip, collapsible stock, forward grip, grenade launcher, and the flash hider.
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Old 02-21-2011, 2:52 PM
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NO. if you install the maglock, all evil features are legal. Pistol grip, collapsible stock, forward grip, grenade launcher, and the flash hider.
Cool, thanks, I get it now. But can I install a Samurai sword on the end as a bayonet? Just kidding
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Old 02-21-2011, 2:55 PM
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The Samurai sword is good even without the maglock.
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Old 02-21-2011, 3:15 PM
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OK, let's review since some new people are in this thread.

  1. The BulletButton maglock - which legally only allows use of a 10rd or less mag - allows
    other evil features to be present on an off-list rifle, including pistol grip, flash hider,
    telestock/folding stock and/or forward pistol grip. Leave your flash hider on.
    .
  2. "Off-list" means not specifically banned by make/model. "Series" doesn't cut it. "Colt AR15"
    is indeed banned, along with "Bushmaster XM15" and "Armalite AR10" and several others. But
    "Stag Stag-15" and "CMMG CMMG-15" and "Lauer LCW-15" and many others are not banned
    by name.

    [Caution has to be observed since a very few guns are banned by the name of the whole gun,
    even though markings on the receiver are not on the ban list. Certain Rock River Arms guns
    present this issue even though the RRA lower is marked as "LAR15", which is off-list.]

    A gun banned by name cannot be made CA-legal by using a BulletButton and for all practical
    purposes should not be imported nor possessed in CA.
    .
  3. Colt LE6940 is not a banned gun per se. In theory, a BulletButton maglock should render it CA
    legal. However, Colt may use a variety of lower receivers thru the course of LE6940 production
    runs.

    There is a fair chance the lower says "LE6920" on it even though it's an LE6940 gun, and that
    would likely be considered listed (or so close it's dangerous).

IF YOUR GUN SAYS "COLT... 6920" ON THE LOWER, DON'T BRING IT INTO CA.
(Or "Colt AR15" or "Colt Match Target" or "Colt Sporter [Target]")

Put a new off-list lower on it (Stag, etc.) and leave the 6920 lower outside CA.

There are a few Colt lowers that are off-list ("CAR-A3" is one of 'em) and if you are lucky you have one.

[Oh - please ignore anybody here who says a gun based on Colt 6920 lower receiver should be possessed in CA.]
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Last edited by bwiese; 02-21-2011 at 3:22 PM..
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Old 02-21-2011, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
OK, let's review since some new people are in this thread.

  1. The BulletButton maglock - which legally only allows use of a 10rd or less mag - allows
    other evil features to be present on an off-list rifle, including pistol grip, flash hider,
    telestock/folding stock and/or forward pistol grip. Leave your flash hider on.
    .
  2. "Off-list" means not specifically banned by make/model. "Series" doesn't cut it. "Colt AR15"
    is indeed banned, along with "Bushmaster XM15" and "Armalite AR10" and several others. But
    "Stag Stag-15" and "CMMG CMMG-15" and "Lauer LCW-15" and many others are not banned
    by name.

    [Caution has to be observed since a very few guns are banned by the name of the whole gun,
    even though markings on the receiver are not on the ban list. Certain Rock River Arms guns
    present this issue even though the RRA lower is marked as "LAR15", which is off-list.]

    A gun banned by name cannot be made CA-legal by using a BulletButton and for all practical
    purposes should not be imported nor possessed in CA.
    .
  3. Colt LE6940 is not a banned gun per se. In theory, a BulletButton maglock should render it CA
    legal. However, Colt may use a variety of lower receivers thru the course of LE6940 production
    runs.

    There is a fair chance the lower says "LE6920" on it even though it's an LE6940 gun, and that
    would likely be considered listed (or so close it's dangerous).

IF YOUR GUN SAYS "COLT... 6920" ON THE LOWER, DON'T BRING IT INTO CA.
(Or "Colt AR15" or "Colt Match Target" or "Colt Sporter [Target]")

Put a new off-list lower on it (Stag, etc.) and leave the 6920 lower outside CA.

There are a few Colt lowers that are off-list ("CAR-A3" is one of 'em) and if you are lucky you have one.

[Oh - please ignore anybody here who says a gun based on Colt 6920 lower receiver should be possessed in CA.]
O.K., so basically I need to look at the lower reciever to see if it says 6920. If it says 6920, I need to replace it with a different lower reciever that is CA compliant. If it says 6940, Im good to go.

Now, I apologize for the very stupid question, but I dont have the gun with me right now. Im on vacation.

So, "where" on the lower reciever will it say 6920 or 6940??? I "googled" images of the 6940 lower reciever and many of the pictures that turn up have some numbers (or something) blacked out/photo shopped out, directly above the magazine well, but below where it says CAL 5.56mm. Is that where I should be looking??

Also, can someone PLEASE explain to me the how ANY Colt AR-15 can be legal in CA, if that one part of the flow chart has the section where it says "Colt AR-15" "(All)"???

Doesnt that mean that ALL Colt Ar-15's are banned?? Im confused.
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Old 02-21-2011, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrancis56 View Post
O.K., so basically I need to look at the lower reciever to see if it says 6920. If it says 6920, I need to replace it with a different lower reciever that is CA compliant. If it says 6940, Im good to go.

Now, I apologize for the very stupid question, but I dont have the gun with me right now. Im on vacation.

So, "where" on the lower reciever will it say 6920 or 6940??? I "googled" images of the 6940 lower reciever and many of the pictures that turn up have some numbers (or something) blacked out/photo shopped out, directly above the magazine well, but below where it says CAL 5.56mm. Is that where I should be looking??
It will be on the left sideplate of the lower.

Do NOT rely on pictures on the web, as Colt has been known to occasionally use varying receivers across production in the past.
EXAMINE YOUR SPECIFIC GUN to make the decision.

Quote:
Also, can someone PLEASE explain to me the how ANY Colt AR-15 can be legal in CA, if that one part of the flow chart has the section where it says "Colt AR-15" "(All)"???

Doesnt that mean that ALL Colt Ar-15's are banned?? Im confused.
NO.

The June 2001 Harrott v. County of Kings decision by CA Supreme Court determined that "series" terminology for ARs and AKs was vague and overbroad, and a gun was only banned by name if and only if the specific make & model combination was formally declared & listed in regulatory code. (Exception: any gun marked "AK47" regardless of mfg should be avoided due to a footnote in this decision.)

So the banned guns are "on list" and the unbanned-by-name guns are "off-list". There are arguments that can be made about clarity of subseries members, but for now you should just regard any gun marked with "Colt AR15", "Colt Match Target", "Colt Sporter", "Colt Sporter Target", and "Colt .... 6920" as banned by name guns, ones that can't be made CA legal thru use of a Bullet-Button-style maglock.

In 2007, passage of AB2728 froze the list of banned guns, and neither the CA DOJ (nor local judges in certain counties that used to be able to declare guns as AWs) cannot add to the list.
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Old 02-21-2011, 3:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrancis56 View Post
Also, can someone PLEASE explain to me the how ANY Colt AR-15 can be legal in CA, if that one part of the flow chart has the section where it says "Colt AR-15" "(All)"???

Doesnt that mean that ALL Colt Ar-15's are banned?? Im confused.
Because even though there are multitudes of functionally equivalent AR-15-pattern lower receivers made by Colt....its not legally an AR-15 unless its actually stamped AR15 on it.

Welcome to California!!!

In Fact... When you get back from vacation and look at what's stamped on teh receiver its actually possible that its going to say AR-15A3 Tactical Carbine. Then the discussion will start all over again...in advance, an AR-15A3 is not an AR-15
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Old 02-21-2011, 4:00 PM
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Then the discussion will start all over again...in advance, an AR-15A3 is not an AR-15
Hmmm. That's a little close for comfort. The gun still says "Colt AR15..." on it and we have a fleet of bad Superior Court judges in CA.

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Old 02-21-2011, 4:08 PM
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I agree, if its legal-its legal! I doubt any legitimate store in CA would risk their business and liberty by selling a banned weapon
FFLs with an AW permit from CADoJ can and do sell otherwise banned weapons all the time. They sell them to law enforcement agencies and to law enforcement officers who've obtained their department's permission to purchase.
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Old 02-21-2011, 4:13 PM
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Hmmm. That's a little close for comfort. The gun still says "Colt AR15..." on it and we have a fleet of bad Superior Court judges in CA.

Your money, your rear end.
Isn't there an actual case with regard to an HK-911 being upheld as Off-List?
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Old 02-21-2011, 4:15 PM
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Here's one version of a Colt 6920, I've seen Colt 6940s with the same lower. It doesn't say Colt 6920 anywhere, this is like RRA in that matter. It's just another place someone looked in a catalog without knowing what they were doing when they made the list.

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Old 02-21-2011, 4:26 PM
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FFLs with an AW permit from CADoJ can and do sell otherwise banned weapons all the time. They sell them to law enforcement agencies and to law enforcement officers who've obtained their department's permission to purchase.
Yeah but Im only talking about civilian sales. I highly doubt any store in CA would make a weapon that is banned for civilians available for civilians to purchase.

Then again, my 6940 does say "Law Enforcement Only" on it. Whats that all about???
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Old 02-21-2011, 4:27 PM
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Here's one version of a Colt 6920, I've seen Colt 6940s with the same lower. It doesn't say Colt 6920 anywhere, this is like RRA in that matter. It's just another place someone looked in a catalog without knowing what they were doing when they made the list.

Well you cant tell from the pic because the spot is whited out where it would otherwise say the model number, so it could say 6920 there.
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Old 02-21-2011, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Raven View Post
Here's one version of a Colt 6920, I've seen Colt 6940s with the same lower. It doesn't say Colt 6920 anywhere, this is like RRA in that matter. It's just another place someone looked in a catalog without knowing what they were doing when they made the list.

Your 6940 will have the exact same lower as pictured above. I guarantee it. The only thing that would make it not a 6920 is that different upper and a bill of sale that describes the item. Choose your practice ranges carefully is all I can say. I believe you would prevail if challenged in court if you have a purchase order or bill of sale that says 6940. But is it worth the hassle?
This is the madness that is California.
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Old 02-21-2011, 4:36 PM
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After learning more about the CA gun laws, I have reached the conclusion that they serve absolutely no purpose.

From what Ive learned now, it takes about 3 minutes to install a bullet button and thereafter keep your pistol grip and telescoping stock. You can legally dissassemble your high capacity magazines and leave them unassembled indefinitely.

So in reality, if the legislatures goal was to prevent you from having an Assault Rifle such as an AR-15 or AK-47 in the "evil" form, they havent really accomplished it.

All they have done is make it more of a pain in the butt to own one by enacting stupid hoops one must jump through in order to have a compliant firearm.

So in a SHTF situation, where no one cares about gun laws (i.e., riots, Katrina type situation), you could simply reassemble your 30 round AK or AR magazine, quickly remove your bullet button, and you now have a fully functioning semi-auto AR-15, just like the one they are trying to prevent you to have.

How lame! Its like they are saying "You can have all the "parts" for a fully functioning semi-auto high capacity AR/AK, but you just have to keep them seperate and not put them together".

Seriously, what the hell?

Who the hell came up with such nonsense thinking it would solve any problem?
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Old 02-21-2011, 4:37 PM
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Your 6940 will have the exact same lower as pictured above. I guarantee it. The only thing that would make it not a 6920 is that different upper and a bill of sale that describes the item. Choose your practice ranges carefully is all I can say. I believe you would prevail if challenged in court if you have a purchase order or bill of sale that says 6940. But is it worth the hassle?
This is the madness that is California.
Yes, but it could also say 6940 under the whited out part, right? Then all is good?
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Old 02-21-2011, 4:40 PM
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Isn't there an actual case with regard to an HK-911 being upheld as Off-List?
I don't recall any.

Plus, I think "911" is a different number than "91".

The Colt "AR15 LE Carbine" indicates a variant of the AR15.

Whether this goes thru court or we have to litigate Son-of-Harrott is unknown. And nobody else knows either - opinions are like xxxx.....

And WTF are we are even arguing about a $75 piece of metal?
Go get a Stag lower.
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