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Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

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  #1  
Old 02-12-2011, 9:00 PM
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Default Is .22LR good enough for HD?

I know most people who get a .22LR handgun or rifle use it for fun/plinking at the range, or use it for practice instead of wasting more money on larger calibers. But would you use or trust .22LR rounds, even the hollow point rounds, for HD use? Or even use it (and trust it) in a SHTF situation?

Say if you have a M&P 15-22 or GSG-5, or a Ruger handgun and you it's loaded up with .22LR rounds. Would you use that or trust that if that's all you had for HD or in a SHTF situation? Or would you go out and spend more on a larger caliber & gun and use that for HD?



Just wondering, as I don't have any long guns, but I do have my SA 1911 .45 to use for HD. I was looking at picking up a rimfire rifle to use for fun at the range, but when not in use could keep it loaded up with HP rounds just in case.
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Old 02-12-2011, 9:05 PM
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If a .22 was all I had I'd use it, however it is my absolute last choice for a HD round. I'd stick with the .45 and keep the .22 for plinking.
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Old 02-12-2011, 9:11 PM
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If its all you had yes, but if you could have more and handle more then I would. For example if a person had a debilitating disease, severe arthritis, or was some what fearful of firearms in a larger size then yes it can make sense for home defense. It beats bringing a knife to a knife fight......
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Old 02-12-2011, 9:18 PM
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its all about shot placement to stop someone in their tracks, but i believe its possible, after all it was used by spies right? the only downside i could think of is if it takes 1+ mags to stop someone then it might be considered unnecessary force in court
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Old 02-12-2011, 9:22 PM
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If this is the 22lr gun you are talking about then, yes, I would say this is sufficient for HD.

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Old 02-12-2011, 9:26 PM
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I guess it depends on your proficiency.

I can fire off a full mag from my marlin accurately in the space of a few seconds. If you can put ten shots in the bad guy center mass/throat/wherever in a short time, with HV CJHP bullets, i'd imagine it'd be better than being mugged.
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Old 02-12-2011, 9:27 PM
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Old 02-12-2011, 9:47 PM
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It is better than throwing the gun at them. And if it all you have, it is all you have. The .22 is decent in SHTF situations for plinking small critters and finishing off wounded zombies after you have run them over. Other than that...
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:07 AM
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aguila hyper velocity out of a 16" carbine at HD range can do some damage. pics later. maybe.
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDM44 View Post
I know most people who get a .22LR handgun or rifle use it for fun/plinking at the range, or use it for practice instead of wasting more money on larger calibers. But would you use or trust .22LR rounds, even the hollow point rounds, for HD use? Or even use it (and trust it) in a SHTF situation?

Say if you have a M&P 15-22 or GSG-5, or a Ruger handgun and you it's loaded up with .22LR rounds. Would you use that or trust that if that's all you had for HD or in a SHTF situation? Or would you go out and spend more on a larger caliber & gun and use that for HD?



Just wondering, as I don't have any long guns, but I do have my SA 1911 .45 to use for HD. I was looking at picking up a rimfire rifle to use for fun at the range, but when not in use could keep it loaded up with HP rounds just in case.

I would definitely use
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:48 AM
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If I had to, it would have to do. Figure that a #4 buck pellet weighs in at like 20 gr. at similar speeds.... But I can't imagine when I'd use it instead if my 12ga though...
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:51 AM
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If I had to, it would have to do. Figure that a #4 buck pellet weighs in at like 20 gr. at similar speeds.... But I can't imagine when I'd use it instead if my 12ga though...
If your 12g was in the other room and you couldn't get to it
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Old 02-13-2011, 1:12 AM
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I doubt anyone would want to volunteer to be shot with a .22LR. I think statistics bear out that there are more shooting "incidents" with .22 than most other larger calibers since people don't treat it as a deadly caliber (even though they should).

The main reason you wouldn't want to rely on a .22 (or any rimfire) as your primary SD/HD tool is that rimfire is a lot less reliable than centerfire. In general, if you press the trigger, a centerfire pistol/rifle/shotgun will go bang almost every time. Rimfire is a bit more finicky and prone to failure.

So is it good enough? Probably. Should you use it for HD/SD purpose? Probably not if you have other options.
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Old 02-13-2011, 3:07 AM
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If you are in the unfortunate position of having to use a .22LR for home defense, don't worry about using hollow point rounds. Just use the highest velocity ammo that feeds the most reliably in your firearm. You don't need to worry about over penetration in a human body with .22LR. If you are being attacked by squirrels then .22LR hollow points are a good option.
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Old 02-13-2011, 5:23 AM
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If you can consistently and quickly put a .22 LR round into someone's eye at HD distances then Yes. I suspect that this is a rare skill however.
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Old 02-13-2011, 5:33 AM
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In an extreme lethal force situation the .22 is probably not your best bet. That said, if you can't get someone's attention after being peppered with 10 rounds of .22 LR he's a real monster and you'll wish you had a scattergun.
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Old 02-13-2011, 6:11 AM
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.22 is an accurate little round and it's inexpensive enough to get proficient with quickly. My shooting buddy can put 10 rounds in a 4'' circle at 21 feet with a P.22 in under two seconds almost every time. Think hollow points and head/center chest.
Is it an ideal SD/HD round? Certainly not, but there are upsides. They are inexpensive to buy and put lots of rounds through. There's very little recoil. New shooters get comfortable with them in no time. I tend to think the monster on PCP that keeps coming after being shot is a rare occurrence. Most people would panic (if not go into shock) if shot with a pellet if it went "bang." Wouldn't be my first choice, but a .22 certainly can kill -without having to go right in the eye socket.
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Old 02-13-2011, 6:22 AM
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I was thinking about this yesterday at the range. I am super accurate with my Marlin 60 at 25-50 yards, and only so-so with my M1 Carbine at anything more than 25 yards. But, in a home defense situation, I don't have to hit a person at 25 yards... 10 yards at the most, and I'm accurate with both my 9mm and my m1 (rifle is preferred) at that distance. That being said, I can hit my target with my .22 at home defense distances very, very well. However, I would have to unload on them.

I'm no expert, but if you have a .22 for HD, it seems proper to measure distances in your home from where you'd be firing and train with those distances and get tight with those distances. If the caliber is an issue, make up with it with accuracy.

If the worse came to worst, and all I had was my .22, I think I can fill a chest cavity with 14 rounds, no problem (adrenaline aside). I hope never to have to do that.

On a side note, my barking dogs, alarm system (and stickers of said alarm system on all the windows and doors), and motion detector lights are there first before my firearm would have to come out.
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Old 02-13-2011, 6:33 AM
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If I had no choice then a .22 is better than bare hands but I don't think going up against an intruder who may be stoned out of their gord with a .22 is really wise. I much prefer a good 45ACP with HPs or a 12 ga with #4 buck.
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Old 02-13-2011, 6:41 AM
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this subject has been debated on every forum about firearms around.

the conclusions are always the same:"yes...but...blah, blah, blah..." or "only if...blah, blah, blah..."

there are many considerations to be thought about when considering the question.

"stopping" power and "killing" power differ greatly in that LE use the term "stopping power" in the context of actually PHYSICALLY HALTING a threat by brute force. if the threat is "killed" in the process of "stopping" it, that's the way it goes. the .22 long rifle, even from a 16" tube, does not have lots of "stopping power" but it is perfectly capable of "killing" to stop, such as in a direct shot to the heart, brain, throat or groin.

if you're envisioning the doomsday, end of time scenario with foreign armies invading...you use whatever you can.

if you're up against a sophisticated opponent, they're more than likely, armored up...and unless you're an expert marksman that's cool under fire, the .22 LR will more than likely not be the best choice.

for the average home invader...yes...a 22 LR will put out his lights more than likely as more than likely this bozo will NOT be armored up, more likely, drugged or liquored up, especially if you use that 16" tubed semi-auto carbine, placing the shots very carefully into a critical area.

the .22 LR does penetrate very well...that penetration will put holes in vital organs...period.

it's very affordable to practice with a .22 LR over a .45 ACP or 9mm...and...not as intimidating. try to locate a place to cap off a live round INSIDE a closed room...muzzle blast and flash are, themselves enough to scare the beejeebers out of anyone. (it's not a good idea to do something like that unless under supervised, trained professional guidance, though, and you probably would not have time to put on your ear and eye protection in a home invasion scenario.)

it's your decision...
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Old 02-13-2011, 6:46 AM
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Armored attackers?
Where do these home invasion scenarios come from?
Where do you guys live? In the crack dens of Arleta?
The best HD gun is the one you have in your house.
If you have more than one, the best HD gun is the one you shoot well under extreme stress.
BTW, it does not take "1+" mags of CCI stinger's to dissuade most human opponents. Now, if you expect to be overrun by doped up, body armored crack heads -- you are living in the wrong neighborhood!
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Old 02-13-2011, 6:47 AM
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My relatives in the Mothers And Father's Italian Association have used the lowly .22 LR to shut the lights on many a victim -- more than any other caliber.
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Old 02-13-2011, 6:55 AM
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I've been on the receiving end of a .22LR. It got me mad enough to beat the living hell out of the shooter (result of a negligent discharge, so you bet the a55 whoopin was a serious one). Shot in the leg, walked home (yeah, got treatment later but it wasn't bad... flesh only). Don't shoot someone with a .22. You'll just piss them off if you don't out and out kill them right then and there.
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Old 02-13-2011, 7:05 AM
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My very first handgun was a .22 which I kept in my sock drawer I would use a .22 only if thats the only caliber I had otherwise I would stick with my 9mm or .45acp
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Old 02-13-2011, 7:05 AM
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In a pinch, it will do just fine, especially with the hyper velocity stuff like CCI Mini-Mags or Aguila Super Maximums.
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Old 02-13-2011, 7:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shy 7th View Post
If this is the 22lr gun you are talking about then, yes, I would say this is sufficient for HD.

The carnage I could wreak on a murder of crows, a gaggle of geese or a herd of rabbits...
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Old 02-13-2011, 7:56 AM
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It wouldn't be my first choice but many have died from .22 wounds. Problem with .22 rounds for defense is they bad guy might still have the ability to cause harm, even though he is mortally wounded. If all I had was a .22, the more rounds on target, the better.
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Old 02-13-2011, 8:05 AM
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22 lr is not a prefer round for HD, but it still better than nothing.
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Old 02-13-2011, 8:27 AM
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Quote:
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22 lr is not a prefer round for HD, but it still better than nothing.
Agree. .22 LR is still a firearm cartridge.
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Old 02-13-2011, 8:46 AM
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More people are shot by .22lr because there are more .22lr firearms in existence than any other calibre. It is also the most widely sold ammunition calibre by quite a wide margin.

While we as gun enthusiasts will endlessly argue the merits and weaknesses of our personal defense handguns in 9mm, .357, .40S&W or .45acp, etc. the one thing we all probably have in common is that we also posess a .22lr in some form or multiple .22's.

Mafia hitman liked the .22lr because they were walking up behind someone and asassinating them. It was quieter than about any other handgun and easy to conceal and suppress. They certainly were not the preferred firearm for general self defense.

Back to the OP, hey, if .22lr is all you got dance with the one that brung ya. Personally I'd pick up a 12gauge to add to your arsenal for home defense.
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Old 02-13-2011, 9:14 AM
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If you shoot a human being in the heart or the aorta they are 99% dead right there regardless of caliber. A 22 will puncture flesh and ribs no problem. So yes it is a good choice for home defense. However if you hit someone with say a 9 or a 40 or 45 the cavitation damage to tissue is far greater leading to faster death with well placed shots. Not to mention if you shoot someone with a 45 they are going down and going to immobile for a sec or two making follow up shots easier. Which is why the general consensus will lean towards those rounds. But all in all it will get the job done. I have seen people killed by both. And in all honesty a vital organ shot is gonna be successful every time regardless of caliber.

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Old 02-13-2011, 2:03 PM
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I would say that .22 is not the most ideal SD/HD caliber but I would trust my life with it if it was all I had access to. Get some CCI STINGERS and shoot for vitals.
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:03 PM
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I recall hearing/reading about the .22LR being a more 'dangerous' round to be hit by, mainly because it will bounce around inside of your body if you're shot with it and most likely hit something vital. I've read about people getting shot in the head and the .22LR round bounced around in their skull really tearing up their brain, and same with a .22LR round going into the stomach area and bouncing around and hitting vital organs in that area.

I'm not trying to say that the .22LR round is good to use, but more just bringing up those statistics as an alternative if you don't have another gun with a larger caliber. But would you agree or disagree with this logic, where the .22LR round could be just about as deadly as a larger caliber due to it ricocheting around in a human body?
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Old 02-16-2011, 10:48 PM
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"Is .22LR good enough for HD?"

The answer is "NO".
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:11 PM
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Man, FUD doesn't even begin to cover it. All'y'all have way too much time on your hands.

Could you disassemble a car with a discount store emergency tool kit? Maybe.

Should you? No.

Seriously, mafia hits and magic bouncing bullets? Seriously?
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:14 PM
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Mark Wahlberg took a couple of clowns out with a .22 rifle in Shooter! That looked convincing.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAGunner View Post
"Is .22LR good enough for HD?"

The answer is "NO".
Some people have a baseball bat and that is good enough for them. Whatever you are most comfortable shooting and confident with is reliable home defense. I asked my dad this same question after I bought my Sig Mosquito... he's a retired cop and told me he's seen more people killed by .22s than any other round. That ought to tell you something. Nevertheless, if someone's opening my door in the middle of the night, I'm grabbing my Kimber Stainless II. Why? Because I feel most confident that I will place all my rounds with that gun.

So to answer the OP's question... Yes... Unless or until you have something better and more confidence inspiring.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by zrockstar View Post
Some people have a baseball bat and that is good enough for them. Whatever you are most comfortable shooting and confident with is reliable home defense. I asked my dad this same question after I bought my Sig Mosquito... he's a retired cop and told me he's seen more people killed by .22s than any other round. That ought to tell you something. Nevertheless, if someone's opening my door in the middle of the night, I'm grabbing my Kimber Stainless II. Why? Because I feel most confident that I will place all my rounds with that gun.

So to answer the OP's question... Yes... Unless or until you have something better and more confidence inspiring.
State of mind is crucial.... but you're still going to want the best tool for the job. Maybe marshmallow blow guns will not scare you as much, but they're going to suck for home defense.
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Ah, the old "form over function" argument. I guess some people would rather be seen with a hot blonde who won't put out than with a "Neil 8" who will make you .
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  #39  
Old 02-17-2011, 8:09 AM
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Merovign Merovign is offline
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I didn't expound enough on the mafia hits / number of bodies with 22s in them thing.

Yes, a lot of people are assassinated with 22s. A lot of people are assassinated with poison and bombs. None of them are particularly well-suited for self-defense. (Obviously some less than others).

Someone up-thread mentioned the difference between killing and stopping. I'm pretty sure (could be wrong) the OP's goal is to end hostilities as quickly as possible, not to tie somebody up and shoot them in the back of the head like a mob hit.

I'm sure everyone's well-intentioned here, I'm not sure everyone is focused on the goals of home-defense.
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Old 02-17-2011, 8:33 AM
pilote pilote is offline
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yes...other calibers are obviously better, but ANY firearm is good for HD.

beats hiding in a closet...or cowering when you hear obvious intruders...and a .22 is better than a baseball bat or 3-iron...

so if a .22 is what you're comfortable using get one.
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