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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-10-2011, 10:16 PM
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Default can someone explain CA long gun registration

Okay, in a previous thread of mine the issue of long gun registration came up. I was told California has no registration for long guns. Does that mean there is no database for who owns a shotgun or a deer rifle ?
For instance, if I left my Remington 30-06 out in the street and the police found it, there is no way for them to trace the serial number back to me and return it to me ?
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:18 PM
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That's correct.

The serial number, make and model are NOT reported to CA DOJ on the Dealer Record of Sale (DROS).
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Chadster View Post
Okay, in a previous thread of mine the issue of long gun registration came up. I was told California has no registration for long guns. Does that mean there is no database for who owns a shotgun or a deer rifle ?
For instance, if I left my Remington 30-06 out in the street and the police found it, there is no way for them to trace the serial number back to me and return it to me ?
Directly, there is no way for them to know. Indirectly, a gun-shop somewhere has a record of the transaction. That is unless it was smuggled in or built.
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:23 PM
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Should I be looking for a 30-06 somewhere..???
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:28 PM
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When you report it stolen by serial number, when the cops find it, they will run the serial number, see you filed a stolen firearm report, contact you, verify, and return it.

Someone stole a crate of unissued Winchester Garands still in the wrap from me, but I didn't report them because I didn't want them to be on the grid.
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:29 PM
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I think I heard somewhere that if you're the first owner, they can generally track it from the manufacturer, to distributor, to FFL, to 4473, to you. Lots of opportunities for things to get lost along the way, though.
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:34 PM
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Default not really

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I think I heard somewhere that if you're the first owner, they can generally track it from the manufacturer, to distributor, to FFL, to 4473, to you. Lots of opportunities for things to get lost along the way, though.
Not really.
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mdimeo View Post
I think I heard somewhere that if you're the first owner, they can generally track it from the manufacturer, to distributor, to FFL, to 4473, to you. Lots of opportunities for things to get lost along the way, though.
It's a complicated process, but it can be done.

Everyone should record the serial numbers of all their firearms and keep them separate from the gun in case the gun is stolen. Don't leave it to someone else.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
Someone stole a crate of unissued Winchester Garands still in the wrap from me, but I didn't report them because I didn't want them to be on the grid.
I am sure you received them legally so why is it, in your mind, better to have the firearms "off the grid" in the hands of a thief?
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  #10  
Old 02-11-2011, 1:59 AM
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
I am sure you received them legally so why is it, in your mind, better to have the firearms "off the grid" in the hands of a thief?

Psst. Psst. Hey dantodd. He's pulling your leg. A crate of unissued Garands in original packing is like a unicorn with two horns.
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  #11  
Old 02-11-2011, 2:20 AM
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Psst. Psst. Hey dantodd. He's pulling your leg. A crate of unissued Garands in original packing is like a unicorn with two horns.
Me want!
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Old 02-11-2011, 2:31 AM
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Sort of a thread hi-jack but when you buy an AR15 lower is it sold as a handgun or a long gun? I know you have to be 21 to buy one because it can be made into a handgun but what is it recorded as?
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Old 02-11-2011, 2:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadster View Post
For instance, if I left my Remington 30-06 out in the street and the police found it, there is no way for them to trace the serial number back to me and return it to me ?
If you leave your Remington out on the street you don't deserve to get it back... But the police report of it being stolen or missing might get it back for you... Although I have serious doubts anyone will check and you most likely will never see it again anyway. At least that has been my personal experience. A stolen gun ended up for sale in a local gun shop after the sheriff dept sold it to the shop...
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Old 02-11-2011, 2:49 AM
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Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
When you report it stolen by serial number, when the cops find it, they will run the serial number, see you filed a stolen firearm report, contact you, verify, and return it.

Someone stole a crate of unissued Winchester Garands still in the wrap from me, but I didn't report them because I didn't want them to be on the grid.
I thought you found out professionalcoyotehunter's Aunt stole them when you left them in Nevada?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-Solo View Post
It's a complicated process, but it can be done.

Everyone should record the serial numbers of all their firearms and keep them separate from the gun in case the gun is stolen. Don't leave it to someone else.
I agree!
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Old 02-11-2011, 6:49 AM
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Also if you ever do have a firearm stolen, most modern FFLs can pull your serial number data up with little effort. If you ever bought a gun from me, I can e-mail you all the data in a few minutes time.

That is why when the commies come, I will have to burn down the shop.
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Old 02-11-2011, 6:56 AM
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Is the serial number recorded on the 4473 during a PPT?
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Old 02-11-2011, 6:57 AM
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Yes
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Old 02-11-2011, 7:00 AM
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Is the serial number recorded on the 4473 during a PPT?
But, it's not on anything that goes to the state of California.

If someone wants their long gun registered, they can always fill out a voluntary registration form and send it, along with $19 to Ca DOJ. This would be one way to help "prove" the gun is your if it get's stolen. But, do you really want to give the state more info on you and more money?
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Old 02-11-2011, 7:02 AM
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Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
Also if you ever do have a firearm stolen, most modern FFLs can pull your serial number data up with little effort. If you ever bought a gun from me, I can e-mail you all the data in a few minutes time.

That is why when the commies come, I will have to burn down the shop.
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Old 02-11-2011, 8:36 AM
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[QUOTE=tenpercentfirearms;5794659]Also if you ever do have a firearm stolen, most modern FFLs can pull your serial number data up with little effort. If you ever bought a gun from me, I can e-mail you all the data in a few minutes time.

That is why when the commies come, I'm certain that there will be a horrible, but unforseen, accident involving my shop.

Fixed it for you.
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Old 02-11-2011, 9:56 AM
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That is why when the commies come, I will have to burn down the shop.
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Old 02-11-2011, 8:54 PM
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That is why when the commies come, I will have to burn down the shop.
Ask Soldier415 to come down and "pre-wire" your whole shop.
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Old 02-12-2011, 1:36 AM
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This thread made me wonder something.

A family member wants to give me an M4 (it isn't an AW, just a current normal long gun).
We had originally thought we'd have to do a transfer with paperwork and send in $19, but now it occurs to me that maybe we're wrong and that we don't need to do anything?
Is the gun already mine without need to send in anything since there's no registration for long guns?

If I understood it well, the registration for long guns is voluntary and completely optional, and there's no database telling who owns what, so family and friends could freely give each other long guns without bothering with paying $19 each time or sending in paperwork?

Or do gifts need to go through FFLs by PPT and 10 days wait + registration?
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Old 02-12-2011, 1:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimi_T View Post
This thread made me wonder something.

A family member wants to give me an M4 (it isn't an AW, just a current normal long gun).
We had originally thought we'd have to do a transfer with paperwork and send in $19, but now it occurs to me that maybe we're wrong and that we don't need to do anything?
Is the gun already mine without need to send in anything since there's no registration for long guns?
if that immediate family member is a grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild, and is also a CA-resident, they could just give you a long gun and you wouldn't need to do anything except say "thank you".

If they aren't your grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild, you can't do a paperless transfer, you must use a CA dealer to do the DROS.

Quote:
If I understood it well, the registration for long guns is voluntary and completely optional, and there's no database telling who owns what, so family and friends could freely give each other long guns without bothering with paying $19 each time or sending in paperwork?
correct, registration is voluntary, but the requirement that you DROS any >50-year old long gun is not voluntary. DROS does not equal registration when it is a long gun.

Quote:
Or do gifts need to go through FFLs by PPT and 10 days wait + registration?
they must be PPT DROSed with the 10-day wait (unless from immediate in-state family), but there is no registration.
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Old 02-12-2011, 1:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
Someone stole a crate of unissued Winchester Garands still in the wrap from me, but I didn't report them because I didn't want them to be on the grid.

I think I saw those hidden in a barn in Nevada.
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Old 02-12-2011, 1:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
if that immediate family member is a grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild, and is also a CA-resident, they could just give you a long gun and you wouldn't need to do anything except say "thank you".

If they aren't your grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild, you can't do a paperless transfer, you must use a CA dealer to do the DROS.
Parents-in-law count as parents, or only the person's actual (biological) parents?

And if not, can the parents-in-law give a gun to my husband (their son) and in turn he gives it to me?
Or would the DROS be needed between husband and wife too? (It sounds like it's the case, but I thought I'd ask just in case...)

It just seems so complicated to have to go to a shop and DROS it, pay for the whole thing and all that just to give a gun to a close family member. If CA laws were simpler it would be so nice!
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Old 02-12-2011, 2:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Mimi_T View Post
Parents-in-law count as parents, or only the person's actual (biological) parents?
the law says parent, not parent-in-law or step-parent.

Quote:
And if not, can the parents-in-law give a gun to my husband (their son)
yes, your husband's parents can give him a long gun, with no paperwork needed.

Quote:
and in turn he gives it to me? Or would the DROS be needed between husband and wife too? (It sounds like it's the case, but I thought I'd ask just in case...)
your husband can give you a long gun, with no paperwork needed. That would be an operation-of-law, which requires no paperwork. But staging two transfers in order to avoid a DROS is a crime, so be careful there.

Quote:
It just seems so complicated to have to go to a shop and DROS it, pay for the whole thing and all that just to give a gun to a close family member. If CA laws were simpler it would be so nice!
often, it is easier to just give the recipient a gift certificate for the gun and send them down to the gun shop to get the gun that way.
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Old 02-12-2011, 7:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
if that immediate family member is a grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild, and is also a CA-resident, they could just give you a long gun and you wouldn't need to do anything except say "thank you".

If they aren't your grandparent, parent, child, or grandchild, you can't do a paperless transfer, you must use a CA dealer to do the DROS.

correct, registration is voluntary, but the requirement that you DROS any >50-year old long gun is not voluntary. DROS does not equal registration when it is a long gun.

they must be PPT DROSed with the 10-day wait (unless from immediate in-state family), but there is no registration.
I am not suggsting anyone break the law, but how would they know?
Assuming you dont tell everyone on the internetz, how could the DOJ tell if someone transfers a long with out a DROS?
If the dros info is destoryed, they could get the orginal 4473 from the FFL that sold it to the first buyer, but if he says "I sold it" How could it be proved that he transfered it legaly, assuming the DROS from said transfer is not saved.
I read somewhere that only 20% of California gun owners at any given time are in compliance with the law. I imagine this is one that gets broken a lot.
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Old 02-12-2011, 7:30 AM
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They wouldn't, but as gun owners, we strive to be law obeying citizens.
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Old 02-12-2011, 7:34 AM
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They wouldn't, but as gun owners, we strive to be law obeying citizens.
I agree, I am just trying to get the details straight in my mind.
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Old 02-12-2011, 8:44 AM
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I agree, I am just trying to get the details straight in my mind.
The investigators would ask where you did the ppt and then go examine the paperwork.

Sent via tapatalk on my Samsung Vibrant.
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:32 AM
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The investigators would ask where you did the ppt and then go examine the paperwork.

Sent via tapatalk on my Samsung Vibrant.
now there are magic investigators???
what are they investigating?
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Old 02-12-2011, 10:36 AM
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I think I saw those hidden in a barn in Nevada.
i heard about them.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:11 AM
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I agree, I am just trying to get the details straight in my mind.
Here's an easy method to approach California's gun laws.
  • If it makes sense, that's not the California Way.
  • If it's easy, that's probably not the California Way.
Your other option is to spend a month or so reading the Wiki and the corresponding Penal Code (and bits of other Codes) and the opinions issues by several levels of courts. Good for the soul but a little hard on both the free time and the temper.
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Old 02-12-2011, 12:28 PM
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now there are magic investigators???
what are they investigating?
I'm not sure I understand your question. I was responding to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by brent* View Post
how could the DOJ tell if someone transfers a long with out a DROS?
If the dros info is destoryed, they could get the orginal 4473 from the FFL that sold it to the first buyer, but if he says "I sold it" How could it be proved that he transfered it legaly, assuming the DROS from said transfer is not saved.


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  #36  
Old 02-12-2011, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Helpful_Cub View Post
Directly, there is no way for them to know. Indirectly, a gun-shop somewhere has a record of the transaction. That is unless it was smuggled in or built.
Yup.

If you were the gun's first owner, when the police find it, they could contact the manufacturer, who could tell them what dealer it shipped to, who could then go through their 4473 file to find who the buyer was.

If it's an older gun that has passed through 5 owners, it may still be possible to trace, but it would be extremely difficult, and if one person says "Got a warrant?" then the chain is broken.

Best way is when it is stolen and you report it, give the PD the serial number and they can go directly from there, but there will be no effort to trace the history to confirm that you are the owner unless they are suspicious of you.
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  #37  
Old 02-14-2011, 9:35 AM
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Thank you so much for the reply! It was very informative!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
yes, your husband's parents can give him a long gun, with no paperwork needed.

your husband can give you a long gun, with no paperwork needed. That would be an operation-of-law, which requires no paperwork. But staging two transfers in order to avoid a DROS is a crime, so be careful there.
Oh, no worries there. We'd never want to commit a crime or anything like that. I just asked because I figured that if they give the gun to my husband instead, I can still use it when we go to the range, so there's no need for them to give it to me and pay money to DROS etc.
It was also to know if we'd have to pay and do paperwork if sometime later down the line my husband decides to officially give it to me, unrelated to the first transfer and not staged or anything.
I just worded my question too briefly, but it wasn't to do anything illegal. We'd never stage two transfers to skip the DROS, we strive to be law abiding always.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
often, it is easier to just give the recipient a gift certificate for the gun and send them down to the gun shop to get the gun that way.
Yep!

It's more or less what I did for this Valentine's Day. I got my husband a new gun, though of course he did the paperwork himself since the gun is for him, I just stood around and paid for his gift.
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  #38  
Old 02-14-2011, 7:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mimi_T View Post
It's more or less what I did for this Valentine's Day. I got my husband a new gun, though of course he did the paperwork himself since the gun is for him, I just stood around and paid for his gift.
Same here. Paid from the joint account so she was the actual buyer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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  #39  
Old 02-14-2011, 8:18 PM
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I find this interesting. I sold a long gun out of state to a friend via out of state FFL. I filled out the No Longer in Possession application with the long gun serial number to send to CA DOJ. The State DOJ (Kamala Harris) sent me a letter stating that there is no record of the firearm being in my possession. I triple checked the serial number and verified the serial number with the buyer. Is the state that disorganized?
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  #40  
Old 02-14-2011, 8:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BitterOldMan View Post
I find this interesting. I sold a long gun out of state to a friend via out of state FFL. I filled out the No Longer in Possession application with the long gun serial number to send to CA DOH. The State DOJ (Kamala Harris) sent me a letter stating that there is no record of the firearm being in my possession. I triple checked the serial number and verified the serial number with the buyer. Is the state that disorganized?
no, the state is not disorganized. Long guns aren't registered to you, so there would be no record of your ownership. As such, there is no record of that long gun for CADOJ to update.
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