[Gunsmoker]

Hypothetically speaking, what kind of trouble will I get in if I am caught armed with a cocked and locked registered handgun in a holster by a LEO out on the streets?

What if I kill a man in self-defense out on the streets? Can I get into more trouble?

[Stanze]

*DISCLAIMER: I'm not a lawyer, just a dude w/ 2 cents.*

If you life in Vermont or Alaska nothing(no CCW required).

If you live in California and are not a gang member, it's a misdemeanor-could result in multiple charges to upgrade it to felony. And, you're at the mercy of the DA and jury/judge if you have to use it.

Not a good idea legally, better idea to secure a CCW.

"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6..."

[hoffmang]

You'll be charged with misdemeanor carrying concealed under Penal Code Section 12031. (a) (1).

You'll have to sell all your guns and lose the ability to purchase guns in the future.

IANAL, but I can read...

-Gene

[metalhead357]

And now that you've posted in a public forum about it and yerr' said thing ever happens...and they find this thread it could be argued that it shows a certain level of premeditation................ NOT a good thing.

Not a lawyer & this aint legal advice

[Diabolus]

Originally Posted by metalhead357

And now that you've posted in a public forum about it and yerr' said thing ever happens...and they find this thread it could be argued that it shows a certain level of premeditation................ NOT a good thing.

Not a lawyer & this aint legal advice

Stuffing a gun in your waistband and walking out the door is enough for "premeditation".

[Gunsmoker]

How difficult is it to get a carry permit in West LA?

What do I have to do?

Spotless record?

[Diabolus]

Originally Posted by Gunsmoker

How difficult is it to get a carry permit in West LA?

What do I have to do?

Spotless record?

Just asking those questions would mean you have no connections so no CCW, the Average Joe is expendable.

[hoffmang]

Unless you have a job related security need or some documented personal threats it can be very hard. The best thing to do would be to contact http://www.trutanichmichel.com/ and pay them for a few hours of their time to fill out the application for you.

-Gene

[Bill_in_SD]

But we are trying to change things.

Head over to www.californiaccw.org for information on getting a license.

Yes, even in L.A.

Bill in SD

[Blackwater OPS]

Originally Posted by hoffmang

You'll be charged with misdemeanor carrying concealed under Penal Code Section 12031. (a) (1).

You'll have to sell all your guns and lose the ability to purchase guns in the future.

IANAL, but I can read...

-Gene

For a misdemeanor? Is that right?

[hoffmang]

If you don't have priors or gang related or a whole bunch of other things that most folks don't have it turns out its just a misdemeanor. I was surprised too but that was from reading the Code.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html

Also, reading it again it looks like you don't lose your firearms if you get the misdemeanor...

-Gene

[Edited to add the URL]

[artherd]

It is a wobbler, and it will only wobble to misdomenor if the gun is REGISTERED TO YOU, and if no other exigient factors arrise.

If successfully prosecuted as a misdomenor, it will still not be a prohibiting misdomenor.

Expect to spend at least a night in jail, $tens of thousands in legal fees, etc. All this for what should be (and is) a basic human right.

[metalhead357]

Originally Posted by Gunsmoker

How difficult is it to get a carry permit in West LA?

What do I have to do?

Spotless record?

As the other poster said...at least for THAT location your chances are next to near ZERO.

The "simple" solution, move to a more friendlier county. The long route, get a job that would necessitate you have one (LEO, 'some' security, bank guard, etc............. I dont have it 'documented' but I hear its oft times even hard down there for FFL's to get one~ which is usually next too a "sure thing" in many other areas.........

As always...YMMV

Good luck...but I wouldn't recommend 'carrying' without a CCW!!!!!!!!!!

[Blackwater OPS]

I think the smart move would be to plead out on thw CCW charge. No need to fight a legal battle on that one. At least if you know you are guilty. Hell I strongly believe hr218 applies to me, but I would still plead out if it came to that.

FYI, I think if you need to use the gun in self defense you will not be procecuted. I don't know that for a fact, but I have heard it quite a bit.

[megavolt121]

Originally Posted by hoffmang

If you don't have priors or gang related or a whole bunch of other things that most folks don't have it turns out its just a misdemeanor. I was surprised too but that was from reading the Code.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html

Also, reading it again it looks like you don't lose your firearms if you get the misdemeanor...

-Gene

[Edited to add the URL]

Politians added in that section so average joe blows would "get off the hook" if they were caught carrying and not sent directly to prison. Of course, you only get that misdemanor once and probably will lose your gun.

[the_quark]

Originally Posted by Blackwater OPS

FYI, I think if you need to use the gun in self defense you will not be procecuted. I don't know that for a fact, but I have heard it quite a bit.

Unfortunately, no one can know that for a fact, one way or another, because it's not specified in the law. Whichever of the famous 58 DAs you live under could decide to prosecute, or not, and the exact details of your case will no doubt be a factor. It wouldn't surprise me if most of 'em would let you off, in that case, but I'm sure some of them (probably in the larger cities) really hate people they see as vigilantes and would be happy to send the message that, if someone needs to be shot, you need to stand around and wait for the police to come do it for you.

Frankly, though, if you live in a dangerous enough area that you feel so compelled to carry that you'll do it illegally if you have to, the fact that you might get a misdemeanor prosecution if you have to defend yourself probably doesn't enter into the calculations, much...

Originally Posted by megavolt121

Politicians added in that section so average joe blows would "get off the hook" if they were caught carrying and not sent directly to prison. Of course, you only get that misdemeanor once and probably will lose your gun.

I understand that politicians added that section so that all their friends that carry without CCWs get off the hook.

My reading is that this "one life" things applies only to guns. If you get caught with a concealed knife (folders don't count when folded) then you are a felon and you loose your rights to a gun for ten years.

[JPglee1]

Originally Posted by ca_brit_05

then you are a felon and you loose your rights to a gun for ten years.

Felons lose their rights for life, unless you can get it reduced under a 1203.4 motion to reduce, and then you're still a "convicted felon" when LEO pulls your record...

Don't carry without proper papers...Its just not worth it.

Roll with a shotty in the car, that's 100% legal and you can carry it inside wherever you're going...

Handgun is risky...too much so IMHO>


J

[hdcd]

Originally Posted by JPglee1

Felons lose their rights for life, unless you can get it reduced under a 1203.4 motion to reduce, and then you're still a "convicted felon" when LEO pulls your record...

Don't carry without proper papers...Its just not worth it.

Roll with a shotty in the car, that's 100% legal and you can carry it inside wherever you're going...

Handgun is risky...too much so IMHO>


J

So your life isn't worth it?

[Python2]

Originally Posted by JPglee1

Roll with a shotty in the car, that's 100% legal and you can carry it inside wherever you're going...

Handgun is risky...too much so IMHO>


J

What do you mean "roll with a shotty in the car". Can you say it in plain english please?

[Stormfeather]

Originally Posted by hdcd

So your life isn't worth it?

ohhh... thats a very good retort. . . .
The way I see it, dont do the crime if you arent willing to do the time. Should we have a easier time getting a ccw, of course. Do we really actually get up off of our butts and do anything about it? The answer to this is unfortunately usually. . . no.
I took the time to get my Florida CCW, Ohio CCW, Nevada and Utah, and now im the proud recipient of a California CCW, issued in Sacramento county no less!

No, im not a LEO, or even a business owner. I just petitioned long enough and patiently enough.
I had my Ohio CCW when I moved to this state. Spend the time getting your Florida CCW, you dont ever have to go to florida, you can access it via their Dept of Agriculture licensing division, they send you the packet, you fill it out, go down and get your live scan done, send in the appropriate fees and within a month and a half, you get a CCW good in 29 states, from there you get your spend the time and get your Utah and Nevada CCW's. After youve done that, then apply for a PRK CCW. Hopefully you will get lucky.

Good luck in it though!

[M. Sage]

Originally Posted by Python2

What do you mean "roll with a shotty in the car". Can you say it in plain english please?

Translation: Drive around with an unloaded shotgun in the backseat (or passenger seat, for that matter.)

Warning: local laws may prohibit. I'm not sure, and wouldn't want to find out.

hdcd:
Your life ain't gonna be much if you're sitting in prison with the animals that you wanted to protect yourself from in the first place.

[grammaton76]

Personally, I'd be more inclined to use an unloaded rifle, but I do concur with the sentiment. A Yugo with stripper clips is pretty fast to load, and you don't have to deal with the ambiguity where LEOs believe that loaded mag = loaded weapon. If it weren't for that one issue, my preference would be for an M4-length gripless AR...

[Bruce]

Originally Posted by hoffmang

You'll be charged with misdemeanor carrying concealed under Penal Code Section 12031. (a) (1).


-Gene

Actually, its 12025(a)(1)PC. 12031(a)(1) is carrying a loaded firearm in a public place" and applies to long guns as well as handguns.

[lazyman]

Originally Posted by Gunsmoker

Hypothetically speaking, what kind of trouble will I get in if I am caught armed with a cocked and locked registered handgun in a holster by a LEO out on the streets?

What if I kill a man in self-defense out on the streets? Can I get into more trouble?

don't do it dude, it's not worth it. Our laws are not gun carry friendly. your best bet for carrying defensive items on the street against hoodlums is mace, air taser, folding knife. air tasers are especitally cool but at 500 bucks I'd rather carry a nice can of mace and a decent folding blade. carrying registered guns is a no no.

[JPglee1]

Originally Posted by hdcd

So your life isn't worth it?

Well of course it is, but I don't do illegal things like carry in public without a CCW, its just not worth getting stuck in prison or losing my rights over it...


Also, I'm smart enough to not talk about it on an internet forum if I did...lol

I personally like the shotgun in the car.... I cruise around with my Mossie 500 behind the seat usually. I also carry a couple legal fixed blade knives (un concealed of course) for backup plan.

If you're that stressed about it (like going to someone's house you dont know, say for work reasons) carry the handgun un loaded in a lock box and load it/carry it once you get where you're going (its legal to carry in a private place like a home/business as long as the owner OKs it)

You most likely DONT need a gun in the car, but if you do I think a 12GA shotty would stop most people from threatening your life further


J

[JPglee1]

Originally Posted by Python2

What do you mean "roll with a shotty in the car". Can you say it in plain english please?

Shoot I thought that WAS plain english...

Roll with a shotty in the car = drive around with a legally owned, un loaded shotgun in your car next to you, or behind the drivers seat, with no shells attached in anyway to the shotgun. Put them in a 5 round carrier screwed to the dash or door panel, and leave the action of the shotty open so you can drop a shell in close it and fire. 100% legal and quick to action. Not too bad for ergos with a pistol grip inside a car.


J

[Spawn_X]

Wouldn't you still catch heat if you don't come up with a legit reason for having the shotgun next to you?

[M. Sage]

Originally Posted by grammaton76

Personally, I'd be more inclined to use an unloaded rifle, but I do concur with the sentiment. A Yugo with stripper clips is pretty fast to load, and you don't have to deal with the ambiguity where LEOs believe that loaded mag = loaded weapon. If it weren't for that one issue, my preference would be for an M4-length gripless AR...

That's true. They do load pretty nicely.

If I was going to pick and choose, though... if it's not going to be something detachable mag, I'd go with a double-barrel shotgun.. or even a single-shot break-open. Fast as hell to load, and you probably won't need more than one or two shots anyway.

Spawn: According to state law, you don't need a reason for having the shotgun next to you. There's no law (State law!! Local laws may vary, I don't know) that prohibits it. Only AW's and pistols have restrictions like "needing a reason" and must be locked in a case anyway.

[Spawn_X]

Originally Posted by M. Sage

Spawn: According to state law, you don't need a reason for having the shotgun next to you. There's no law (State law!! Local laws may vary, I don't know) that prohibits it. Only AW's and pistols have restrictions like "needing a reason" and must be locked in a case anyway.

Thanks, appreciate that.

Think its finally time to pick up a benelli m4

[Bishop]

Originally Posted by grammaton76

Personally, I'd be more inclined to use an unloaded rifle, but I do concur with the sentiment. A Yugo with stripper clips is pretty fast to load, and you don't have to deal with the ambiguity where LEOs believe that loaded mag = loaded weapon.

That's a good idea... I'm actually in the process of researching a "trunk gun" purchase, and you guys are making me rethink my decisions about detatched mags, and the intimidation factor of a 12 guage...

Edit: fyi: before now; I was all but decided on a kel-tec su-16ca...

[linuxgunner]

Come to: http://californiaccw.org . There is a big fight brewing in LA and we're going to win.

Originally Posted by linuxgunner

Come to: http://californiaccw.org . There is a big fight brewing in LA and we're going to win.

Imagine the day when I move to LA to get a easy CCW! What is the game plan?

[hoffmang]

Bishop - If it adds weight, I'm planning on going SU-16CA for my trunk.

-Gene

[grammaton76]

Originally Posted by hoffmang

Bishop - If it adds weight, I'm planning on going SU-16CA for my trunk.

If you do that, I would advise a few things:

1. Keep ammo on stripper clips, and use the fancy mag-based stripper clip guides to load the mag if need be.

2. Keep an empty 10rd mag in the SU-16's magwell to keep dust and lint and such out of the action. Stuff likes to roam around in trunks...

3. If you're going to keep a loaded mag, then keep it in a toolchest or something, seperate from the rifle. If an LEO SHOULD see the rifle, seeing that you've taken the steps from #1 may be adequate to dissuade them from assuming there's a loaded mag somewhere and looking for it. This is, of course, in the event you get one of the LEOs on the "loaded, seperate mag = loaded weapon" side of the debate, of which there are many.

[metalhead357]

Originally Posted by JPglee1

Shoot I thought that WAS plain english...

Roll with a shotty in the car = drive around with a legally owned, un loaded shotgun in your car next to you,

LOL! Maybe because it was that UNblessedededededed word "shotty". If'n ya' want to abbreviate....how about "SG" or the traditional "12 GA"

[chiefcrash]

depending on what county and city, if you open carry it, you'll get harassed but not charged with anything...

[mblat]

Realistically the answer it - who knows. I know of a guy ( I know him personally - so it isn't one of the "I heard from a friend who heard from his girlfriend stories”).
So he was found carrying UNREGISTERED gun in his car. The gun was his, but it was bought at the gun show years back, so there was no record of him owning the gun what so ever.
He has almost clean record (long time ago he had DUI) lives and was stopped in LA, not a West LA however. He lost the gun and had to do some community service (read picking up dirt on the side of the roads). That is all.
He didn’t even bother to hire a lawyer, in spite of multiple advices by everybody. He didn’t have to give up any other guns – and he has plenty.
So like I said – it depends on day of the week with conjunction with the phases of the moon.
By law I think carrying can be prosecuted REGISTERED gun is misdemeanor, UNREGISTERED – felony. Key words here – “can be”.

EDIT: and BTW - if you have to use it and it is proven that it was "clean shot" then you won't be prosecuted with anything. Right to self defense will tramp everything else. However proving that it was “clean shot” may be the problem. I know somebody who was in that situation – who was pharmacist and was carrying because he was handling large amount of medication. Somebody attempted to rob his store – he shot an assailant – nothing happened to him. In that case they didn’t even confiscate his gun, even though I think they can.

[Blackwater OPS]

Originally Posted by han_cholo

If you're LE and have HR218 privileges, why would you be pleading to anything? Just curious...

I'm Army military police(CID), and there is some debate on HR218 and it's application to us.

[Bishop]

Originally Posted by mblat

I know somebody who was in that situation – who was pharmacist and was carrying because he was handling large amount of medication. Somebody attempted to rob his store – he shot an assailant – nothing happened to him. In that case they didn’t even confiscate his gun, even though I think they can.

I think there are some serious differences in the law between carrying in a public area and carrying in your home/business. AFAIK a man's home and business are legally his "castle" and can be defended as the owner sees fit.

Had your pharmacist just locked up and got robbed on his way to his car, (carrying legally or not) I think the situation would have been very different.