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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 11-16-2016, 7:27 AM
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Default CCW on Deep Sea Fishing Boat

Planning on going deep sea fishing soon and was wondering if there are any CCW laws that would change if on a boat in the ocean. I remember someone mentioning before that you have to inform the captain of the ship, but I can't find that law and the forum search isn't returning anything about boat, ship, or fishing in the CCW section.

I will be on a large fishing boat with a captain and about 30 other people. The trip I'm taking does not go into Mexican waters, some of their trips do. I checked their website and it doesn't mention any policy about firearms. I have a CA LTC from Riverside County.
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Old 11-16-2016, 7:35 AM
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Maybe this will help. I just skimmed it, but it does have some info on the topic.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5148704

BTW, a good search engine is your friend.
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Old 11-16-2016, 7:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SonofWWIIDI View Post
Maybe this will help. I just skimmed it, but it does have some info on the topic.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5148704

BTW, a good search engine is your friend.
Thanks, great info in the article, however it just focuses on the difference between international and national waters. So a US ship in International waters is subject to US laws, but the article doesn't really expand on what those laws are for a ship. For example, do I have to notify the captain I'm carrying? Also are there any CA specific laws restricting carrying on a ship?
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Old 11-16-2016, 7:53 AM
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Just found a thread that's pretty helpful: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=453789

However, that thread is talking about being out on your own boat. I'm going to be on a company's boat with a captain.
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Old 11-16-2016, 8:01 AM
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Permission to carry, Captain!
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Old 11-16-2016, 8:02 AM
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The DFG states it is legal to carry a concealed loaded firearm while in the act of fishing and transporting it unloaded while going to and coming from your fishing expedition.

I always carry when on a fishing boat...I've never told the captain I was carrying...
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Old 11-16-2016, 9:12 AM
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No is the answer. Especially if going to mexican waters. Every boat I have been on has stated that no illegal drugs and or firearms are allowed on the boat. They have no way of securing your firearm.

Also what would you need a firearm on a boat for. Are you expecting a mutiny or pirates.
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Old 11-16-2016, 9:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltzgolf View Post
No is the answer. Especially if going to mexican waters.
I mentioned I'm not going to Mexican waters. Why would no be the answer otherwise? Can you point me towards a law.

Quote:
Every boat I have been on has stated that no illegal drugs and or firearms are allowed on the boat. They have no way of securing your firearm.
A sign saying No Firearms Allowed holds no weight in CA for a LTC holder, does that change on a boat leaving CA port?

Quote:
Also what would you need a firearm on a boat for. Are you expecting a mutiny or pirates.
I carry concealed everyday, everywhere I am legally allowed to. If you carry all the time, then you're always prepared for pirates and mutinies.
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Old 11-16-2016, 9:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glockman19 View Post
The DFG states it is legal to carry a concealed loaded firearm while in the act of fishing and transporting it unloaded while going to and coming from your fishing expedition.

I always carry when on a fishing boat...I've never told the captain I was carrying...
Oh, interesting. I forgot about that exception for fishing. So one wouldn't even need an LTC in this case. I wonder if this still applies outside the DFG's jurisdiction further out into the ocean where it becomes Federal law only.
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Old 11-16-2016, 9:52 AM
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Why carry on a boat?
1. He has a CCW.
2. He does not want to leave his weapon in his car at the marina.
3. Concealed means concealed.
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Old 11-16-2016, 9:56 AM
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Keep it concealed and it won't be an issue. If you do end up having to use it to repel pirates, no one will complain.
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Old 11-16-2016, 10:05 AM
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ask the captain for the charter boat you will be on, most charters don't allow firearms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFawkes View Post
Planning on going deep sea fishing soon and was wondering if there are any CCW laws that would change if on a boat in the ocean. I remember someone mentioning before that you have to inform the captain of the ship, but I can't find that law and the forum search isn't returning anything about boat, ship, or fishing in the CCW section.

I will be on a large fishing boat with a captain and about 30 other people. The trip I'm taking does not go into Mexican waters, some of their trips do. I checked their website and it doesn't mention any policy about firearms. I have a CA LTC from Riverside County.
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Old 11-16-2016, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFawkes View Post
Oh, interesting. I forgot about that exception for fishing. So one wouldn't even need an LTC in this case. I wonder if this still applies outside the DFG's jurisdiction further out into the ocean where it becomes Federal law only.
As pointed out by H8Mud, check with the captain of the boat! He is in charge
of the rules for the boat.
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Old 11-16-2016, 1:04 PM
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I went deep sea fishing recently but decided not to carry because I wanted to drink. I brought a flask aboard instead of my pistol.

Luckily, we were not attacked by pirates and there was no mutiny.
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Old 11-16-2016, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by v.kevin View Post
I went deep sea fishing recently but decided not to carry because I wanted to drink. I brought a flask aboard instead of my pistol.

Luckily, we were not attacked by pirates and there was no mutiny.
Did the flask fit in your holster? If not, there's an idea for someone.
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Old 11-16-2016, 2:04 PM
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Almost 50 years ago before this state got so f..ked up my Dad used to bring his pistol (I think .22) when we'd go out fishing from Long Beach.
He said it was to protect us from the sharks. He must have known something he wasn't telling the kids?
Oh wait, my Dad didn't give a crap about asking for permission he just did his own thing. That's what you get when your 100 years old.
I'll wish for the good old days.
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Old 11-16-2016, 2:15 PM
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Out of courtesy I would ask the captain. JMO
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Old 11-16-2016, 2:18 PM
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Possession of a firearm aboard a U.S. documented vessel (whether or not concealed) requires the permission of the vessel master. A fishing vessel operating from a U.S. Port is going to fit that definition.

The law makes exceptions for LEO's and military, but does not make exception for CCW holders.

Violation is misdemeanor. But also note this is a federal law misdemeanor. If the judge gives you the year, you're going to serve the full year. Feds don't do the "we're overcrowded so go home early" thing.

Please refer to 18 USC 2277. Here is the text:

"(a) Whoever brings, carries, or possesses any dangerous weapon, instrument, or device, or any dynamite, nitroglycerin, or other explosive article or compound on board of any vessel documented under the laws of the United States, or any vessel purchased, requisitioned, chartered, or taken over by the United States pursuant to the provisions of Act June 6, 1941, ch. 174, 55 Stat. 242, as amended, without previously obtaining the permission of the owner or the master of such vessel; or
Whoever brings, carries, or possesses any such weapon or explosive on board of any vessel in the possession and under the control of the United States or which has been seized and forfeited by the United States or upon which a guard has been placed by the United States pursuant to the provisions of section 191 of Title 50, without previously obtaining the permission of the captain of the port in which such vessel is located, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(b) This section shall not apply to the personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States or to officers or employees of the United States or of a State or of a political subdivision thereof, while acting in the performance of their duties, who are authorized by law or by rules or regulations to own or possess any such weapon or explosive."
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Last edited by RickD427; 11-16-2016 at 2:42 PM..
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Old 11-16-2016, 2:23 PM
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Asked and answered by rick move on.
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Old 11-16-2016, 2:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Possession of a firearm aboard a U.S. documented vessel (whether or not concealed) requires the permission of the vessel master. A fishing vessel operating from a U.S. Port is going to fit that definition.

The law makes exceptions for LEO's and military, but does not make exception for CCW holders.

Violation is misdemeanor. But also note this is a federal law misdemeanor. If the judge gives you the year, you're going to serve the full year. Feds don't do the "we're overcrowded so go home early" thing.

Please refer to 18 USC 2277. Here is the text:

"(a) Whoever brings, carries, or possesses any dangerous weapon, instrument, or device, or any dynamite, nitroglycerin, or other explosive article or compound on board of any vessel documented under the laws of the United States, or any vessel purchased, requisitioned, chartered, or taken over by the United States pursuant to the provisions of Act June 6, 1941, ch. 174, 55 Stat. 242, as amended, without previously obtaining the permission of the owner or the master of such vessel; or
Whoever brings, carries, or possesses any such weapon or explosive on board of any vessel in the possession and under the control of the United States or which has been seized and forfeited by the United States or upon which a guard has been placed by the United States pursuant to the provisions of section 191 of Title 50, without previously obtaining the permission of the captain of the port in which such vessel is located, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(b) This section shall not apply to the personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States or to officers or employees of the United States or of a State or of a political subdivision thereof, while acting in the performance of their duties, who are authorized by law or by rules or regulations to own or possess any such weapon or explosive."
Thanks Rick!! This is the law I was looking for.

Quote:
permission of the captain of the port in which such vessel is located
Is this referring to the captain of the fishing boat I'm on or is there some other official at the port we are launching from?
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Old 11-16-2016, 3:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFawkes View Post
Is this referring to the captain of the fishing boat I'm on or is there some other official at the port we are launching from?

In the United States, captain of the port (COTP) is a title held by a United States Coast Guard officer, usually the commander of a United States Coast Guard sector with the rank of captain (O-6). Captain of the port duties involve enforcing within their respective areas port safety and security and marine environmental protection regulations, including regulations for the protection and security of vessels, harbors, and waterfront facilities; anchorages; security zones; safety zones; regulated navigation areas; deepwater ports; water pollution; and ports and waterways safety.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_of_the_port
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Old 11-16-2016, 3:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFawkes View Post
Thanks Rick!! This is the law I was looking for.



Is this referring to the captain of the fishing boat I'm on or is there some other official at the port we are launching from?
Speedrracer beat me to the response, and he is quite correct.

But also please note that the "Captain of the Port"'s permission requirement only applies to seized vessels that are in United States custody.

For all other vessels it is the master's (Captain of the boat) permission that is required.
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Old 11-16-2016, 7:47 PM
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Huh. Interesting realm of CCW that I'd never come across before. Good learning!
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Old 11-16-2016, 7:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltzgolf View Post
Also what would you need a firearm on a boat for. Are you expecting a mutiny or pirates.
Actually, yes.

The closest that I have ever come to being ready to draw was not far off of San Clemente Island.

Piracy can take many forms, particularly when you are on a private boat that may be worth over 1 million (doesn't take much boat to reach that)... Doesn't take much to take over a boat of unarmed family members, ditch them into the ocean, and run the boat to Mexico.


But as for the "party boat"... Captain's boat, Captain's law.
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Old 11-16-2016, 8:13 PM
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I don't ask when I walk into a restaurant or store. I don't ask when I walk into a business that has a "no wepons" sign. I don't see a reason to ask the captain.

You are still in the USA.
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Old 11-16-2016, 8:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD427 View Post
Possession of a firearm aboard a U.S. documented vessel (whether or not concealed) requires the permission of the vessel master. A fishing vessel operating from a U.S. Port is going to fit that definition.

The law makes exceptions for LEO's and military, but does not make exception for CCW holders.

Violation is misdemeanor. But also note this is a federal law misdemeanor. If the judge gives you the year, you're going to serve the full year. Feds don't do the "we're overcrowded so go home early" thing.

Please refer to 18 USC 2277. Here is the text:

"(a) Whoever brings, carries, or possesses any dangerous weapon, instrument, or device, or any dynamite, nitroglycerin, or other explosive article or compound on board of any vessel documented under the laws of the United States, or any vessel purchased, requisitioned, chartered, or taken over by the United States pursuant to the provisions of Act June 6, 1941, ch. 174, 55 Stat. 242, as amended, without previously obtaining the permission of the owner or the master of such vessel; or
Whoever brings, carries, or possesses any such weapon or explosive on board of any vessel in the possession and under the control of the United States or which has been seized and forfeited by the United States or upon which a guard has been placed by the United States pursuant to the provisions of section 191 of Title 50, without previously obtaining the permission of the captain of the port in which such vessel is located, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(b) This section shall not apply to the personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States or to officers or employees of the United States or of a State or of a political subdivision thereof, while acting in the performance of their duties, who are authorized by law or by rules or regulations to own or possess any such weapon or explosive."
I think I know the answer but just for clarification, the USS Midway or Queen Mary would not fall under this restriction, correct?
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Old 11-16-2016, 8:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WASR10 View Post
I think I know the answer but just for clarification, the USS Midway or Queen Mary would not fall under this restriction, correct?
USS Midway may still fall under Federal property. The Titan Missile Museum south of Tucson has no guns signs, yet the Pima air museum only has signs on the cafeteria (they serve beer). Of course, the AWARG tour is on-base.

Queen Mary is effectively a hotel, I'm pretty sure it's actually grounded and no longer floating.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA is our insurance against their success.
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Old 11-16-2016, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRoberts12345 View Post
I don't ask when I walk into a restaurant or store. I don't ask when I walk into a business that has a "no wepons" sign. I don't see a reason to ask the captain.

You are still in the USA.
There's a difference. In CA "no weapons" signs hold no weight in areas not prohibited by law. In this case there is law saying that you must inform the captain. If the ship you were on was to be boarded by law enforcement for whatever reason and they discover you have a weapon that the captain does not know about then it would be illegal. If you were in a restaurant and the police discover you have a weapon (assuming you have LTC) then it's not illegal.
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Old 11-16-2016, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WASR10 View Post
I think I know the answer but just for clarification, the USS Midway or Queen Mary would not fall under this restriction, correct?
Neither vessel shows up as U.S. Documented. The Queen Mary is effectively decommissioned and permanently moored. I'm not sure of the Midway's status. She is removable from her mooring, but may have been decommissioned as a functional vessel.
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Old 11-16-2016, 10:42 PM
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Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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Old 11-17-2016, 8:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFawkes View Post
I mentioned I'm not going to Mexican waters. Why would no be the answer otherwise? Can you point me towards a law.



A sign saying No Firearms Allowed holds no weight in CA for a LTC holder, does that change on a boat leaving CA port?



I carry concealed everyday, everywhere I am legally allowed to. If you carry all the time, then you're always prepared for pirates and mutinies.
I reached out to the owner/captain of a fishing boat I frequent throughout the year. This is what he said.

" Once outside of 3 miles, you are no longer in CA and we work under federal jurisdiction. Also if the trip did go into Mexico it would be considered smuggling and major prison time and loss of the vessel is a possibility "

That being said I was not inferring that you could not do this on a private boat.
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Old 11-17-2016, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Queen Mary is effectively a hotel, I'm pretty sure it's actually grounded and no longer floating.
Nope, it floats. Goes up and down with the tide.
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Old 11-18-2016, 6:54 AM
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Actually the Queen Mary is classified as a floating building. So it falls under the California Code of Regulations.
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Old 11-19-2016, 9:36 AM
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Even though that is the most likely place you would ever need a CCW gun, I would never carry anywhere south of San Diego as far as fishing. Mexico is so incredibly corrupt, why give them more to find? Good to know about the real law Rick, thanks!
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