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  #1  
Old 02-06-2011, 9:59 AM
JAY BOOGIE
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Default Whats the difference between 1911 and other .45's?

My last thread was concerning reliability of the CZ 97B.

This was brought to my attention as I looked for the perfect "GO TO" gun.

Whats the advantages of a 1911 compared to any other .45 auto or .45 ACP?

Last edited by JAY BOOGIE; 02-06-2011 at 12:09 PM.. Reason: Changed title
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2011, 10:30 AM
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for myself, the most advantages of a 1911 besides reliability, versitility, durability, etc (any gun can claim these and bring up endless debate):

1. all steel frame and slide
2. you can find tons of parts manufactured by tons of companies out there: sights, barrels, grips, grip safety, trigger.....)
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:39 AM
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So, please edit your first post in each of the threads.

Click on 'go advanced'

Go to the smaller box that contains just the text "Advice please" (or, as this one, "Advice please (part 2)". That is what is use as the thread title.

Change "Advice please" to something with a noun or verb that describes ON WHAT you want advice.

The title can be about 10 words long....
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAY BOOGIE View Post
My last thread was concerning reliability of the CZ 97B.

This was brought to my attention as I looked for the perfect "GO TO" gun.

Whats the advantages of a 1911 compared to any other .45 auto or .45 ACP?
Other than it is arguably one of the most widely produced and distributed handgun design in the world (the reasons should speak for themselves) and parts are always available and relatively cheap, the differences are nominal. There are applications where a 1911 wouldn't be ideal, so it always comes down to what you want the firearm for. Looking for a "GO TO" gun (in my mind that = reliability) the 1911 is the only choice.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:29 PM
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it's the hot rod of the pistol world. modifications are limited by your budget. you can start with a base model and go from there, or you can buy factory semi-customs, and personalize to your individual taste.

and it looks awesome
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:32 PM
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A 1911 is holstered on the right hip of The Father.

Anything else is just a 45.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAY BOOGIE View Post
My last thread was concerning reliability of the CZ 97B.

This was brought to my attention as I looked for the perfect "GO TO" gun.

Whats the advantages of a 1911 compared to any other .45 auto or .45 ACP?
I had a CZ-97B for a while and had the CZ competition hammer, trigger job and upgraded sights. That gun never and I literally mean NEVER failed to work properly and was as accurate as some fairly pricey 1911's I have tried.

I put about 2500 hundred rounds through it over the course of 18 months then sold it cause .45 has gotten very pricey.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:40 PM
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1911 > other 45s.
simple as that.
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Old 02-06-2011, 1:04 PM
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$300
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  #10  
Old 02-06-2011, 1:08 PM
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Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
$300
truth there. heh.

also, the 1911 is SA-only, which could be considered a benefit.

.45acp just costs too much to shoot, imho... which is why i'm going to get a 1911 chambered in 9mm. :P
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  #11  
Old 02-06-2011, 1:15 PM
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1911 fits my hand better than all the others, and therefore points better.
'That is what I care about.

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Old 02-06-2011, 1:26 PM
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The only 45 acp is a 1911 to which all others are compared.....
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  #13  
Old 02-06-2011, 1:27 PM
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my main thought on 1911 vs other, is the 1911 is very slim. That and a whole lot of history behind it. That said, I'll probable stick to the 1911 as my 45 of choice till i get outta california
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Old 02-06-2011, 2:02 PM
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Default Traditionally the 1911 .45 auto was the gold standard

Especially for Combat Guns. This trend (for me ) started in the late 60s early 70s. With people like Arman Swenson, Jim Hoag and (PBHN) Jeff Cooper....

Dozens of others made a name for reliable, accurate .45 autos. I can't list them all, but by the 1980s you weren't shait if you didn't own a tricked out 1911. It was as bad as GLOCKS are today.

I own 8 1911s....all in .45 auto. Of course, I reload You must, or spend lots of cash on the ammo...

As a sidebar I was watching Terminator 2 the other day and even in 1991 when it was made, the 1911 was KING. Glock had only been in the Country for 4 or 5 years with their G 17 and the Glock 21 didn't arrive until 1993 ish.

Sarah Conner uses a Detonics 1911 custom gun..here:

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title...cs_Custom_1911

Here's my favorite..a normal blued, well worn Series 70 National Match.
She will feed EMPTY CASES ....lol. She runs 100%.

And she makes a Beoch out of my 1992 full size Glock 21 (.45)


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  #15  
Old 02-06-2011, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAY BOOGIE View Post
Whats the advantages of a 1911 compared to any other .45 auto or .45 ACP?
IMO, none. I prefer a DA/SA. The cocked & locked crowd will be along soon to inform us how important the consistent SA only trigger is at 5 yards...

Of course, I really enjpy my RIA TActical 1911 at the range and would feel well armed with it in any social situation.

Edit: For a target pistol it's hard to beat a good 1911 trigger. Buttah.
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  #16  
Old 02-06-2011, 4:11 PM
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So would a SA base model 1911 that I would upgrade over the years be better than or equal to a more high priced model?
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  #17  
Old 02-06-2011, 4:31 PM
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you get what you pay for.

but then again.... I havnt had any problems with my 38 super ria 1911a1 that I dropped a $45 9mm barrel into, no other mods just the barrel and some metalform mags. Its a great 9mm 1911.
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  #18  
Old 02-06-2011, 5:22 PM
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a 1911 is SAO, no DA hardware to contend with, so lower bore axis.

interesting that probably the 2 most prolific pistols in competition shooting (Glock & 1911) share this trait.
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  #19  
Old 02-06-2011, 5:26 PM
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A 1911 is a 45... the rest are chambered for .45.
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  #20  
Old 02-06-2011, 6:42 PM
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1911 is single action and its barrel link is obsolete compared to todays sliding ramp type tilting barrel lock

the magazine is low capacity

that being said it is a decent gun i have one

but also have a baby eagle and a glock the glock is just so easy to clean

and i like the decocker on the baby eagle
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  #21  
Old 02-06-2011, 7:17 PM
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1911's are endlessly customizable, have soul, and triggers that actually feel good. And they actually feel good in the hand and the slim profile makes them more concealable.
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Old 02-06-2011, 7:28 PM
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IMO the enduring popularity of the 1911 is due in large part to it's excellent ergonomics and (because of it's SAO action) shootability.

Oh, and it's heavy, potent caliber.

Don't disregard that. For decades, when someone said "I got a forty-five" - they almost invariably meant a 1911. In the days when cops mostly carried .38 special revolvers, and crooks used those revolvers (and any other junk guns - usually even less powerful than a .38), packing a .45 meant you were a serious hombre with some serious firepower. It had a mystique about it that I honestly don't think it would have if The Army, back in the turn of the century, deemed the 9mm cartridge good enough and went to war with a 9mm chambered 1911.
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Old 02-06-2011, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyc Wid It View Post
1911's are endlessly customizable, have soul, and triggers that actually feel good. And they actually feel good in the hand and the slim profile makes them more concealable.
What he said!!!
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Originally Posted by 1911Luvr View Post
I beg to differ. The full length dust cover rail makes a world of difference in the "when I run out of bullets I'm going to beat you to death with the pistol" look that causes bad guys to run in fear, and lesser men to feel inadequate. It looks just plain beastly and the extra heft up front does help manage recoil a bit better. Plus, an angel told me that when God called JMB to heaven it was to build him a full rail 1911!
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Old 02-06-2011, 8:20 PM
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It's like having a vehicle with a Chevy small-block!
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Old 02-06-2011, 8:30 PM
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1911 is a specific style of gun. an iconic classic with beautiful lines and attributes.
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Old 02-06-2011, 8:31 PM
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This is the real 45:

Even a 1911 doesn't measure up.
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Old 02-06-2011, 9:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rromeo View Post
A 1911 is holstered on the right hip of The Father.

Anything else is just a 45.
+++
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Old 02-06-2011, 9:41 PM
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The 1911 is a classic design. Like any other design, it has it's good and it's not-so-good points.

One good point is that for years it was the standard issue sidearm of the American military. Thousands upon thousands of people have trained on them. That is a huge user base that are at least familiar with this pistol. Consequently, it became a popular pistol due to that many people being familiar with it, and who felt confidence in it based on their experience with it in the armed services. Due to that popularity, a huge base of aftermarket support sprang up (sights, performance parts, custom grips etc) because there was a mil-spec STANDARD, and if the part fit one 1911 it likely would fit any other mil-spec 1911. This interchangeability further fueled the popularity. Eventually, the popularity became so wide-spread that the situation we have today evolved, where nearly any pistol maker has either a 1911 or a credible competitor to the 1911 in their product portfolio.

Cons against the 1911 - If the pistol is made to loose tolerances, it is reliable but not accurate. If the pistol is manufactured to tight tolerances, it is accurate but not reliable. If the pistol is made to be both accurate and reliable, it will be very very expensive. There may be occasional exceptions to this ("My uncle bud had a 1911 that was a bulletproof reliable tack-driver right out of the made-in-china box") but largely these 3 rules are pretty good indicators. The .45 acp round itself is good if you get a hit on a soft human target. It's not good at penetrating things like helmets that smaller, faster rounds have proven penetration abilities on. Same thing for tires, it may bounce instead of penetrate. Capacity is limited to one or two rounds more than a standard revolver.

Now, there are answers/solutions to most of these "cons". You can get longer magazines (10 rounds) but pay a price in awkwardness. Or get a double stack magazine, but the gun is no longer mil-spec and the grip becomes unmanageably fat for some shooters. You can get them chambered in other rounds from 9mm, to .40 to 10mm or .38 Super... again, not mil-spec, hard to find support for these.

Do I think 1911's are good guns? If they are well-made, sure, absolutely. But I also think that the CZ 97b (own one) the Springfield XD45, and many other pistols chambered in 45 acp are good guns for that round.

I will caution you about the 97b... mine is a great gun - BUT - if you do not have long fingers... LOOOONG fingers... something else may fit your trigger reach better. Can you pick up a basketball with one hand? I have a neighbor (6'3") with very long fingers and my CZ fits his hand terrific. My hands are large (I'm 6'1") but my palms are big and fingers not so long. I can reach the SA trigger mode ok. I cannot comfortably reach the trigger in DA mode, it's just too far, I get the tip of my finger on the trigger, and have to wiggle my hand around to where it's not right in order to get fully on the trigger. I recommend you handle one at a gun store to see if it is right for you. Also, my CZ does not like wide-mouth hollow points. It will feed ball ammo just fine, and narrow hp (remmington golden saber) just fine. I have not tried Hornady Critical Defense nor Pow-R-Ball ammo, but I suspect those would feed OK. My CZ is very accurate. I had an action job (not just a trigger job) done on it but the gentleman is retired now and no longer working on CZ pistols. No one does this work that I am aware of. It's very smooth now, and has a very light trigger. That same work today would run you $400 if you could find anyone to do it right. To find someone capable of doing the same work on a 1911, you would have to throw a roll of quarters in the general direction of the nearest gunsmith. You're bound to hit someone who can do the job.

I think it is hard to go wrong with a good, high-quality 1911. You want to spend between $500-$1000 on a gun if you want a good one but no more than that unless you are looking for something mostly for show or for fun. I'm assuming you don't want a race pistol or a sunday-go-to-meetin' gun. Actually the Rock Island guns are sloppy loose and generally sub-standard finish, but if you want a working gun for around $400 they will knock around in your tool box all day and generally go bang in the general direction of the bad guy when negotiations break down and you have to call in your plan B. I have even heard of a few people who happened to get passable specimens. YMMV.

Last edited by bruss01; 02-06-2011 at 9:50 PM..
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  #29  
Old 02-06-2011, 9:46 PM
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other 45's? what other 45's?
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:57 PM
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my dad has a 97B, i dont really like it. the gun seems front heavy and the mags are very expensive, but it shoots fine. as far as 1911's go i just got my Springfield GI, love the way it feels in my hand and i am having fun buying stuff to make it look pretty, but if i were to be in a gunfight i would take a Glock 21/30 with me.
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:08 PM
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As much as a glock nut i am, i respect all breeds of handguns and weapons. That is why my next handgun in 45 will be a 1911. But I will have to say after that it'll be a Glock 22 and probably a Glock 29
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
The 1911 is a classic design. Like any other design, it has it's good and it's not-so-good points.

One good point is that for years it was the standard issue sidearm of the American military. Thousands upon thousands of people have trained on them. That is a huge user base that are at least familiar with this pistol. Consequently, it became a popular pistol due to that many people being familiar with it, and who felt confidence in it based on their experience with it in the armed services. Due to that popularity, a huge base of aftermarket support sprang up (sights, performance parts, custom grips etc) because there was a mil-spec STANDARD, and if the part fit one 1911 it likely would fit any other mil-spec 1911. This interchangeability further fueled the popularity. Eventually, the popularity became so wide-spread that the situation we have today evolved, where nearly any pistol maker has either a 1911 or a credible competitor to the 1911 in their product portfolio.

Cons against the 1911 - If the pistol is made to loose tolerances, it is reliable but not accurate. If the pistol is manufactured to tight tolerances, it is accurate but not reliable. If the pistol is made to be both accurate and reliable, it will be very very expensive. There may be occasional exceptions to this ("My uncle bud had a 1911 that was a bulletproof reliable tack-driver right out of the made-in-china box") but largely these 3 rules are pretty good indicators. The .45 acp round itself is good if you get a hit on a soft human target. It's not good at penetrating things like helmets that smaller, faster rounds have proven penetration abilities on. Same thing for tires, it may bounce instead of penetrate. Capacity is limited to one or two rounds more than a standard revolver.

Now, there are answers/solutions to most of these "cons". You can get longer magazines (10 rounds) but pay a price in awkwardness. Or get a double stack magazine, but the gun is no longer mil-spec and the grip becomes unmanageably fat for some shooters. You can get them chambered in other rounds from 9mm, to .40 to 10mm or .38 Super... again, not mil-spec, hard to find support for these.

Do I think 1911's are good guns? If they are well-made, sure, absolutely. But I also think that the CZ 97b (own one) the Springfield XD45, and many other pistols chambered in 45 acp are good guns for that round.

I will caution you about the 97b... mine is a great gun - BUT - if you do not have long fingers... LOOOONG fingers... something else may fit your trigger reach better. Can you pick up a basketball with one hand? I have a neighbor (6'3") with very long fingers and my CZ fits his hand terrific. My hands are large (I'm 6'1") but my palms are big and fingers not so long. I can reach the SA trigger mode ok. I cannot comfortably reach the trigger in DA mode, it's just too far, I get the tip of my finger on the trigger, and have to wiggle my hand around to where it's not right in order to get fully on the trigger. I recommend you handle one at a gun store to see if it is right for you. Also, my CZ does not like wide-mouth hollow points. It will feed ball ammo just fine, and narrow hp (remmington golden saber) just fine. I have not tried Hornady Critical Defense nor Pow-R-Ball ammo, but I suspect those would feed OK. My CZ is very accurate. I had an action job (not just a trigger job) done on it but the gentleman is retired now and no longer working on CZ pistols. No one does this work that I am aware of. It's very smooth now, and has a very light trigger. That same work today would run you $400 if you could find anyone to do it right. To find someone capable of doing the same work on a 1911, you would have to throw a roll of quarters in the general direction of the nearest gunsmith. You're bound to hit someone who can do the job.

I think it is hard to go wrong with a good, high-quality 1911. You want to spend between $500-$1000 on a gun if you want a good one but no more than that unless you are looking for something mostly for show or for fun. I'm assuming you don't want a race pistol or a sunday-go-to-meetin' gun. Actually the Rock Island guns are sloppy loose and generally sub-standard finish, but if you want a working gun for around $400 they will knock around in your tool box all day and generally go bang in the general direction of the bad guy when negotiations break down and you have to call in your plan B. I have even heard of a few people who happened to get passable specimens. YMMV.



Great Info!!!
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
One good point is that for years it was the standard issue sidearm of the American military. Thousands upon thousands of people have trained on them. That is a huge user base that are at least familiar with this pistol. Consequently, it became a popular pistol due to that many people being familiar with it...
Yup. That's where I first fired one. While the M9 fit me better I just always had a thing for the .45ACP.
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Old 02-07-2011, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by InGrAM View Post
you get what you pay for.

but then again.... I havnt had any problems with my 38 super ria 1911a1 that I dropped a $45 9mm barrel into, no other mods just the barrel and some metalform mags. Its a great 9mm 1911.
so the RIA 38 super is on the CA roster?

Where did you buy the drop in 9mm barrel?

Thanks
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Old 02-07-2011, 2:02 PM
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1911s still have the best production triggers imo
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Old 02-07-2011, 2:31 PM
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Thanks everyone!

Info was important, as well as much needed.

However, I have decided to go with the Sig 220. My budget won't let me get the 1911 I want. So the Sig will do until then.

I looked at the CZ, and my hands did not mate well the grip. Something strange about the comfort of my pinky finger.

If anyone has anything bad to say about the 220, please speak up. Im dropping my entire tax refund on this guy.

Thanks again!
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Old 02-07-2011, 4:00 PM
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M. D. Van Norman M. D. Van Norman is offline
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The SIG-Sauer P220 is an excellent choice for a single-stack .45-ACP pistol. It cant be customized as thoroughly as the Colt-Browning platform, but tinkering with guns isnt for everyone either.
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  #38  
Old 02-07-2011, 4:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S dot View Post
1911s still have the best production triggers imo
This, for me, would be the only reason I would get one. I mean ... amazing trigger.

This is also why I don't want one, I don't want to ruin all other guns for myself. I've dallied with a friends TRP, I shoot so well with it, I can't shoot it anymore. It's like cheating on all my other pistols, and I don't want to spend $1600+ on a single pistol.
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  #39  
Old 02-07-2011, 4:30 PM
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This is the kind of thread that got me in trouble as a newbie to the pistol world. Reading stuff like this is misleading because the 1911 is literally a religion in the gun world and lead me to buy a 1911 which is imo a horrible choice for a first time gun owner. ESPECIALLY when this gun is to be used as a self defense weapon. This 1911 religion is a bad thing because it doesn't leave much room for objectivity or subjectivity with a novice. That said, IMO, the 1911 is an awesome gun that has lots of history and amazing good looks and feels good in your hand. Neither of these make for the best gun. There is no gun that is more lauded and criticized than the 1911. For every post or conversation I've heard or read that says how amazing and reliable the 1911 is, I hear or read just as many threads or conversations about people who have nothing but jam-o-matic experience with them. It's kinda like Kimber. I personally know 3 people with Jam-o-matics. I also know 2 people who love them. That doesn't mean they won't work for you or you can't get them to work, but it does catch my eye.

That said, IMO, for a newcomer to pistols, the 1911 is the single worst entry gun a person can buy. Why? The trigger and safety. Most people don't realize that while a reliable 1911 is an amazing self defense tool, it is an amazing tool in the hands of someone who trains extensively and exclusively with 1911's. When you draw, you must flip the safety off. Sounds simple, right? Sure is at the range. Although how many videos do I see of people at the range forgetting to flip the safety on a 1911? How many times have I done it at the range myself? Quite a few. Now imagine someone's trying to kill you and you have 1 second to draw and fire to save your life. Wait, you can't imagine it. If you aren't a dedicated 1911 shooter, you will probably forget to flip the safety off. That is unless you practice drawing a 1911 200 times a day like lifting weights so your muscle memory is so burned with 1911 that you'll even draw a Glock the same way.

Okay, you remembered to flip the safety off and you saved your butt. Now what? Ever shoot someone? I haven't. Imagining this is probably like imaging the last encounter. You can't because it'll be more intense than you can imaging. So now you have a cocked hair trigger in your shaking hands ready to fire with little pressure while your heart is beating 180 bps, your hands are really shaking, you might have to sit down, you might celebrate you being alive, you might fall to the ground. Ooops! Forgot to flip the safety BACK on and you bump that hair trigger.

Point is, get a Glock/M&P/XD as your first 45. It is the best thing a novice can do for themselves. Remember that the best gun is not the one that looks the best or feels the best or has a safety other than your noggin. The best gun is the one that shoots the best before, during and after you're under extreme stress.
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Old 02-07-2011, 4:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAY BOOGIE View Post
Thanks everyone!

Info was important, as well as much needed.

However, I have decided to go with the Sig 220. My budget won't let me get the 1911 I want. So the Sig will do until then.

I looked at the CZ, and my hands did not mate well the grip. Something strange about the comfort of my pinky finger.

If anyone has anything bad to say about the 220, please speak up. Im dropping my entire tax refund on this guy.

Thanks again!
You made the best choice honestly. If its not a 1911, Sig is the way to go for a .45 caliber. Great out of box trigger, great DA/SA trigger pull and a decocker that in my opinion is the best on the market.
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