[SemiAutoSam]

http://batf.com/fbi_agents_miffed.txt

FBI Agents 'Miffed' that Gun Owner Contacted Media
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief
November 05, 2002

Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - Prior to the capture of "Beltway Sniper"
suspects John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo, an unconfirmed number of
Maryland gun owners received surprise visits from the FBI as part of the
investigation. One such gun owner had a surprise of his own for the agents
when they arrived at his home.

Jeff Brown of Gaithersburg, Md., was "a little nervous" when he heard the
voicemail message from an FBI agent on the sniper task force who wanted to
"visit" Brown at his home to check a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle Brown
purchased in 1993. Adding to that apprehension was the fact that Brown owns
and drives a full-sized white panel van, the type of vehicle investigators
believed the sniper was driving.

"I expected, actually, to be pulled over and spread-eagle on the street at
some point," Brown told CNSNews.com Monday. "When he called, I knew their
database had had a double hit. A white van and a .223 rifle? I knew they
were
coming."

In a subsequent telephone conversation, Metzger reportedly told Brown that
agents merely wanted to verify the serial number of the rifle and confirm
that it was, in fact, still physically in Brown's possession. The two
scheduled an appointment to accomplish those goals.

But Brown later learned that the agents had tried at least once to make an
unannounced visit, and only called because they were unable to catch him at
home.

"Once I told some of my friends in the pro-gun community what was happening,
they began to relate some stories to me about guys having their guns
confiscated, for so-called 'ballistic fingerprinting,' and not getting their
guns back," Brown explained. "I became alarmed."

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said the attitude
of the federal agents comes as a result of "years of accepting gun control
as
somehow useful for solving crimes."

"The [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms] went to the stores and got
the
lists of gun owners that had something that could fire a .223. But, it
didn't
solve the crime," Pratt noted. "The only reason we find that gun
registration
is 'useful' is for confiscation."

FBI Agents 'Were Not Happy'

Brown's apprehension prompted him to contact an attorney, who instructed him
on preparing for the visit. So, when FBI Special Agent Greg Metzger and his
partner arrived at Brown's home for their scheduled meeting, they were
greeted by Brown and his wife, Mary, along with reporters and photographers
from various media outlets.

As Brown described the situation, the agents were "a little bit miffed."

"They were not happy," he observed. "They just were not interested in being
around any cameras."

The agents asked Brown to step outside the home, away from the television
crew, to talk.

"Can we, uh ... come here," one of the agents said to Brown. Obliging, Brown
stepped away from the door to speak with the agents, but still within view
of
the camera.

Brown began recapping the agreement he had made with Special Agent Metzger.
But when one of the agents realized Brown was wearing a wireless microphone,
he stopped the conversation short.

"Do you have a microphone on?" the agent asked as he reached toward the
microphone clipped to Brown's shirt. Brown backed away and continued
talking,
but the agent interrupted him again.

"Can you do me a favor?" the agent asked. "Can you take the apparatus off
that you have on? I'd like to speak to you privately."

Brown complied, but only after summoning his wife to serve as a witness to
the conversation with the agents. Out of the camera's view, and believing
they could not be heard, the agents challenged Brown about the presence of
the media.

"They were belligerent, at that point, with me. They weren't threatening me
or pushing me around or touching me or anything like that, but their
mannerisms and attitude quickly became offended and belligerent," Brown
recalled. "I was thinking to myself, 'See, this is what I was afraid would
happen if you guys came into my house, especially if I was alone.'"

'Don't You Know People Are Dying?'

Parts of the conversation picked up by the camera's long-range microphone
confirm Brown's account of what happened next.

"Why didn't you give us a chance to do what we said we were going to do
instead of ambushing us with the media? Why didn't you trust us?" one agent
asked.

Brown said it was not so much the words the agents used, as their attitude
and body language that made him uncomfortable.

"There was some lecturing about it," he said recalling one comment that did
unnerve him.

"One thing they said was, 'Don't you know people are dying and we're just
trying to do our job?'" Brown recalled, "Of course, the inference was that I
didn't care that there were people dying and I was trying to interfere with
them doing their job."

During that conversation, the agents reportedly admitted that they had
seized
other rifles, allegedly with permission, to compare them to the ballistic
evidence gathered from the crime scenes.

"They said, from some people, they do 'request' to take the gun with them
and
do 'ballistic fingerprinting,' as they call it," Brown recalled. "I just did
not want to have my gun disappear."

Pratt believes the agents "developed an attitude," because Brown challenged
their attempts to violate his constitutional rights.

"The FBI is trying to put this guy on a guilt trip because he's 'not
cooperating' with the system but it's a totally useless system," Pratt
argued. "They just assume that gun owners [are] all a bunch of suspects just
for being gun owners and they should behave accordingly."

'They Were Doing It On Purpose'

At the request of Special Agent Metzger, Brown instructed the media to stay
outside his home, where they could see what was happening through a plate
glass window. Brown had the unloaded weapon displayed in plain sight for the
inspection.

The agents followed Brown and his wife inside and confirmed the serial
number
on the rifle as they had said they wanted to do. But that was not the end of
the encounter.

"After they checked, they started [questioning Brown again], and that's when
my wife stepped in and told them to leave," Brown said, noting that his wife
formerly worked in law enforcement.

Mary Brown believed the agents were attempting to agitate her husband,
hoping
he would say or do something to justify their confiscation of his rifle.

"I could tell that they were doing it on purpose and I didn't like what they
were doing to you," she told her husband. "So, I decided to just jump right
in."

The agents left the couple's property, as they were ordered to do.

Jeff Brown does not believe the agents' reaction to the presence of the
media, or their "brow-beating" tactics were justified.

"I'm not here to make them feel happy. I have to make sure my rights are not
violated. I wanted to help, but this is not Nazi Germany," he explained. "I
looked [Metzger] right in the eye and said ... 'I don't care whether you're
upset about being ambushed by the media. I felt I needed some witnesses here
with me.'"

Brown, a member of the National Rifle Association and former candidate for
public office in Maryland, was also upset by what he perceived as a lack of
honesty on the part of the FBI.

"[Metzger] wasn't upfront with me, and I didn't have any guilty feelings
about [contacting the media]," Brown said. "They weren't truthful with me.
They didn't tell me all the truth. They only told me the part they wanted to
hear."

A Message to Gun Owners?

Debbie Weierman, a spokeswoman for the FBI, said the bureau would not
respond
to any questions about the encounter, because the probe into the multiple
murders was still in progress.

"We're not going to be able to get into any kind of a dialogue with you
regarding any aspect of our investigation," she said.

Pratt believes the response of the agents to the presence of the media shows
that their main focus was not on finding the "Beltway Sniper," but rather on
sending a message to gun owners.

"They know it's not about crime control because, if they were really
interested in finding the perpetrator they would have kept moving. Obviously
this guy wasn't the guy," Pratt concluded. "What it's really all about is
showing that the feds are in control in a very totalitarian sense of the
word."

[damon1272]

Thanks for the article. Scaaaarryyyy. I saw a good bumper sticker this afternoon that kind of relates, it said " Yes, you can trust the government. Just ask an Indian."

[chris]

good aritcle thank goodness it has not happened here in kali yet?

[PanzerAce]

Its situations like this that make me realize that CYA during incounters with the police/federal agencies is always the best idea.

[tman]

Great article. Looks like they were trying to lay down the guilt trip, while also using intimidation and bully tactics. Sounds a lot like what the Army recruiters are doing these days. It is VERY effective in getting what they want from what I've seen.

[Diabolus]

Originally Posted by PanzerAce

Its situations like this that make me realize that CYA during incounters with the police/federal agencies is always the best idea.

What does CYA mean?

[SemiAutoSam]

Cover Your Rear

This image (posted on Warrior Talk) reminds me of why I want the press around when dealing with law enforcement (it is a bit of a slow download).

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6772/scan0002nj4.jpg

There is something about the agent's stance that worries me that he is enjoying his power a little too much.

The following article has a great picture from Fresno this week where a motorist is has a gun pointed at him while his car is searched. There had been a bank robbery but it worries me that the cops can just stop and search you. His finger is at least off the trigger.

http://www.fresnobee.com/home/local/...13355181c.html

[SemiAutoSam]

It looks like the DEA does not like motorcyclists hmmmm

[jumbopanda]

Originally Posted by ca_brit_05

This image (posted on Warrior Talk) reminds me of why I want the press around when dealing with law enforcement (it is a bit of a slow download).

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6772/scan0002nj4.jpg

There is something about the agent's stance that worries me that he is enjoying his power a little too much.

The following article has a great picture from Fresno this week where a motorist is has a gun pointed at him while his car is searched. There had been a bank robbery but it worries me that the cops can just stop and serach you.

http://www.fresnobee.com/home/local/...13355181c.html

good thing for the DEA that officer was black and the victim was white...otherwise they'd get a surprise visit from their friendly neighborhood Jesse Jackson...

[dwtt]

Originally Posted by ca_brit_05

This image (posted on Warrior Talk) reminds me of why I want the press around when dealing with law enforcement (it is a bit of a slow download).

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/6772/scan0002nj4.jpg

There is something about the agent's stance that worries me that he is enjoying his power a little too much.[/url]

That rider is lucky to have the press publish his picture, it's very helpful in the subsequent lawsuit. In the east coast the police had harassed bikers before at organized rallies and poker runs.

[stag1500]

The government has way too much power. That is scary.

[bwiese]

This is old, old, old news from 2002. Widely discussed in many other web forums, dunno why it was brought up here. now...

Just remember - if the cops come to your door without a warrant, insist on your rights and send 'em away. If they say they can get a warrant, tell 'em they'd've had one if they could and they're welcome to go get one if they can, at which point you would protest but offer no resistance. Let them know they will be videotaped and audiotaped during the process and that your attorney will be coming.

[SemiAutoSam]

BW this is for you maybe you can find another dimension that can use your talents.

Bill they have escaped their captors and are coming for you.


http://www.lifetechnology.org/hyperdimensional.htm

[M. Sage]

Originally Posted by bwiese

This is old, old, old news from 2002. Widely discussed in many other web forums, dunno why it was brought up here. now...

Just remember - if the cops come to your door without a warrant, insist on your rights and send 'em away. If they say they can get a warrant, tell 'em they'd've had one if they could and they're welcome to go get one if they can, at which point you would protest but offer no resistance. Let them know they will be videotaped and audiotaped during the process and that your attorney will be coming.

I've always thought the best answer to "we can GET a warrant" was "good, come back when you do."

That's crazy how they treated him. Did those people wind up getting their rifles back?

And WTF is with them just raiding gun shop records (why does that sound fishy) to find out who's got what kind of rifles? Maybe we need to push for gun store records to only be held 6 months or something, and then require secure destruction. I'd find it a bit more believable that they used their OWN records that theoretically should have been previously destroyed.