[jumbopanda]

so i hear that no new firearms can be added to the roster of those approved for sale in california unless they have a magazine disconnect safety and a loaded chamber indicator. does this also mean that once the handguns currently on the list expire, that they will not be renewable?

[blkA4alb]

Yes that is correct, as long as they don't fall off the list however they won't have to have the new requirements. So its just a matter of the manufactorer renewing them.

[jumbopanda]

but they can be renewed even though they dont meet the new requirements?

[blkA4alb]

Originally Posted by jumbopanda

but they can be renewed even though they dont meet the new requirements?

Yes.........

[ArmedWolf]

haha, if not I think there would be a lot of pissed Manufactures

[PanzerAce]

Originally Posted by ArmedWolf

haha, if not I think there would be a lot of pissed Manufactures

Doubt it. There will just be alot of manufactures that will decide that Cali sales dont justify modifying whatever guns that they already make.

[CALI-gula]

And keep in mind that companies like Smith and Wesson essentially create a new model because of their "dash" numbering system or name changes to semi-autos, to indicate those changes, either internally or cosmetically, both superficial or substantial. So a minor insignificant change could bump a model off the list, as the manufacturer trudges forward with the new model and its changes.

For other models improved or changed, from just about all manufacturers, those older models will unlikely be renewed after stock is out, or they will only keep the most basic model on the list to appease CA gun owners - so the higher-end custom stuff will dissolve from the list. Such as you might be able to get the most very basic Kimber or Smith 1911 3 years from now, but might not be able to get their latest and greatest updated Performance Center or Custom Shop versions. And if they do a major change like ParaOrdnance made to all of their 1911s with their new larger extractor a few years ago, say goodbye to a whole line of pistols from one manufacturer.

And while companies like Glock make changes, but thankfully keep calling it the "Model 22" if they toy with changes that might kick all of the older 3 or 4 generations of their guns off the list, the changes will be significant enough that the DOJ will see it as a model change.

There was plenty of time to fight this bill before it had ever hit Gray Davis' desk, and too many CA gun owners ignored it, or sis not grasp the techincaltiy of it (as was great apathy with SB15 at the time too - either people didn't get it, or thought it was too radical at the time to pass). I am so glad that things have changed enough to garner enough people to have fought AB352. I wish Calguns.net had been around at the time for those other bills.

.

[M. Sage]

Does anybody else have the same problem with these being called "safety features" that I do?

Who relies on a mag disconnect safety or a loaded chamber indicator? Doesn't everybody check, visually at least?

Implying these features make handguns "safer" seems counter-productive to me. Nothing makes any gun safe like education. Evidently, the PRK doesn't like education, though.

[dwtt]

I agree with you, but these "safety" requirements have nothing to do with handgun safety. It was just another way for the gun banners to limit the sales of handguns in CA. Just like how they tried to claim guns are a "health problem" in the early 1990's but that strategy didn't work. They are using the "safety" strategy for all they can.

[slowjonn]

Originally Posted by M. Sage

Implying these features make handguns "safer" seems counter-productive to me.

Don't let facts and truth get in the way of the anti's attempts in Cali!

[jumbopanda]

Originally Posted by M. Sage

Evidently, the PRK doesn't like education, though.

Yup, blame the inanimate object rather than the idiot using it

[Thrillbilly]

Originally Posted by M. Sage

Does anybody else have the same problem with these being called "safety features" that I do?

Who relies on a mag disconnect safety or a loaded chamber indicator? Doesn't everybody check, visually at least?

Implying these features make handguns "safer" seems counter-productive to me. Nothing makes any gun safe like education. Evidently, the PRK doesn't like education, though.

I totally agree.

[ETD1010]

Originally Posted by jumbopanda

Yup, blame the inanimate object rather than the idiot using it

I totally agree. I think saftey is all a part of education and experience. If you talk to any serious gun owner, the first rule is always assume a gun is loaded. Magzine disconnects and loaded chamber indicators can be a nice feature if you are LOOKING for it in a gun, but to have it required for saftey reasons is silly.

[blkA4alb]

I've had this discussion many times. I sure hope they didn't try to market these features to improve child safety. What kind of child who obviously doesn't know enough about guns that we need these devices would know to look for a tiny red dot and say "OH, this is loaded."

[PanzerAce]

Originally Posted by blkA4alb

I've had this discussion many times. I sure hope they didn't try to market these features to improve child safety. What kind of child who obviously doesn't know enough about guns that we need these devices would know to look for a tiny red dot and say "OH, this is loaded."

agreed, if you know enough about guns to know that there is a loaded chamber indicator, then you know enough to rack the slide back and visually check the chamber yourself.

Actually, does any body with a new CA approved handgun with the chamber indicator know if somehow it could be jammed in the unloaded position through regular operation of the gun?

[Inoxmark]

Originally Posted by PanzerAce

... does any body with a new CA approved handgun with the chamber indicator know if somehow it could be jammed in the unloaded position through regular operation of the gun?

No, but I read somewhere that new Ruger MarkIII with that large blocky loaded chamber indicator could FIRE if you slam the left side of the loaded pistol on a hard surface. If true, that's some safety feature...

[artherd]

Even DOJ/CA Legislature's own HSC test standards indicate to visually AND physically check the firing chamber, and not to rely on a CLI.

CLIs are useless at best, and fatal at worst.

[Richie Rich]

My Sig229r has a loaded chamber indicator (sorta). There is a small notch in the slide that you can look into and see the back of the round if one is chambered. Since you are actually looking at the chambered round, it would be hard to have a failure to show that one was in the pipe.

Really unnerved me at first since the older 229 that I had rented at the range didn't have it. It makes it look like the slide isn't all the way forward. Was thinking that my brand new gun was broken out of the box.

Forgot to check if it would fire with the mag out, will try next time I am at the range.. My guess is it will not...

I just hope people don't become reliant on them in leau of pulling the slide back and taking a look to see if Mr Bullet it home..

I plan on just forgetting that the indicator even exists.