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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 02-01-2011, 10:52 AM
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glennsche glennsche is offline
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Default ww1 m16 berthier long rifles

guys,

ww1 is my war. i know everything about it, collect everything from it, including rifles.

i'm absolutely DYING for a good berthier. my requirements are that it has to be the 5rd (not the 3rd mag), and be the full length. i've already got the interwar cut down carbine and i want the full thing so when i stick the bayo on it which i already have it'll be ginormous.

i've been lurking on gunbroker for ages and see a few over and over that have not been sold in over a year. is the market for frenchy stuff just small? any special tips on what to look for with these?

this is more or less what i want, but i want one in better condition:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=213556470
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:45 AM
jeff762 jeff762 is offline
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have you checked this guys out? http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php
they have an entire forum section for french bolt actions and there is a for sale section also. you might find one there for sale or trade.
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:51 PM
vivelacolo vivelacolo is offline
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And there is a lot more where they come from.
RRO
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Old 02-01-2011, 8:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennsche View Post
ww1 is my war. i know everything about it, collect everything from it, including rifles.
Hehe. Care to put your money where your mouth is?

Join the great war historical society (based out of Southern CA)! (if you are not a member already) & start reenacting!

http://www.greatwarhistoricalsociety.com/

Because that's pretty much what happened with me. I'm a huge WWI fanatic myself (and collect rifles & items from that era as well). So I thought why not really get into it.

It's a great way to meet like-minded individuals & participating in our 'mock' battles really gives one a 'feel' of what it was really like back then.

There's nothing quite like hanging out in a trench, wearing a wool uniform, carrying a long-obsoltete rifle

If you have any questions please feel free to shoot me a PM...

as far as Berthier's- I don't own one ( I own a Lebel though). But our resident French expert in the GWHS owns many

I do want to own a Berthier too- and have been passively looking for one too. Good luck on your hunt...

-Palimino

[edit] There was a killer deal on a Berthier on Gunbroker a few months ago. It's only drawback was that it was missing the front barrel band. Otherwise it was pretty decent. Went for $300 shipped IIRC. I would have bid myself but lacked the $$$...
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Old 02-01-2011, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by vivelacolo View Post


And there is a lot more where they come from.
RRO
i salute you sir.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:07 PM
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Some of my American World War I stuff. The helmet and gas mask are named to the same soldier






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Old 02-02-2011, 1:59 AM
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Originally Posted by vivelacolo View Post
[IMG]

And there is a lot more where they come from.
RRO
The dog looks proud of his collection...as well he should be!
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  #8  
Old 02-02-2011, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palimino Stripe View Post
Hehe. Care to put your money where your mouth is?

Join the great war historical society (based out of Southern CA)! (if you are not a member already) & start reenacting!

http://www.greatwarhistoricalsociety.com/

Because that's pretty much what happened with me. I'm a huge WWI fanatic myself (and collect rifles & items from that era as well). So I thought why not really get into it.

It's a great way to meet like-minded individuals & participating in our 'mock' battles really gives one a 'feel' of what it was really like back then.

There's nothing quite like hanging out in a trench, wearing a wool uniform, carrying a long-obsoltete rifle

If you have any questions please feel free to shoot me a PM...

as far as Berthier's- I don't own one ( I own a Lebel though). But our resident French expert in the GWHS owns many

I do want to own a Berthier too- and have been passively looking for one too. Good luck on your hunt...

-Palimino

[edit] There was a killer deal on a Berthier on Gunbroker a few months ago. It's only drawback was that it was missing the front barrel band. Otherwise it was pretty decent. Went for $300 shipped IIRC. I would have bid myself but lacked the $$$...
im looking at this one:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=213250050

its been on GB for over a year. i'm wondering why. yeah, its a bit too much, but i'm wondering...is that "sharpshooter sight" an aftermarket drilling?

i *LOVE* your K und K regiment, that is *so* cool! Seems like noone in the US knows anything about imperial austria anymore, super cool to see that site.

the thing is, and i hate to say this and mean no offense, i kinda dont get "reenacting". i should go out for one and see, but to me it just seems like a buncha dudes playin' dress up Please tell me i'm wrong!

when one reads lyn macdonalds books about what the brits experienced in ww1, or alistair horne's book on verdun, or any other countless account of what the men of that era went thru, a buncha dudes dressing up in uniforms pretending to bayonet one another doesnt seem the way to honor them.

again, please, i realy dont want to offend. i'm sure we'd have loads of fun over a pint or something. but well, when i'm in CA next i should come out and see for myself i guess .
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Old 02-02-2011, 1:31 PM
vivelacolo vivelacolo is offline
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a buncha dudes dressing up in uniforms pretending to bayonet one another doesnt seem the way to honor them.
A very true and honest statement.

Glennsche,
The auction you are listing has been on and on and on for a long time and no taker. First of all this set up has nothing to do with sharpshooters. What it is, is a variation implemented, I believe in 1917, I do not have my documents around, which purpose was to help in night shooting. The rear of the front sight had a dot of a luminescent radium compound, the rear of the rear sight had two dots of that same compound so a shooter could align his sight at night. The result were not what was expected and that modification discontinnued after few months . It is not rare.
The price is outrageous. As you can see I have a lot of Berthier rifles perhaps the greatest amalgamation outside some very big French museums. The most I would pay for a common Berthier rifle in very good shape is $250 $300.00.
Of course I could go a lot higher for the rarer variations but I do not think that it is what interest you at this point.
Usually ,the Mle 16, since you are looking for a five shot, has been few times around the block, essentially in service from 1917/18 to the end of WW2 and sometimes, in some colonies even later. So those rifles are pretty beat up and usually mismatched, but they do tell a story.
If you want a Berthier rifle in pristine condition, it is not a five round configuration, you can look for the Remington version of the 1907/15. Many of those rifles stayed in America and were never used to fight a war, they look like a Berthier just out of the factory, of course they do not have that aura of real veteran rifles that the well used rifles carry with them.
One of those Remington can be acquired for $450 to $550, make sure they have not been sporterized.
Gunbroker, auctionarms, gunshows sometimes gunboards or other forum, they are around and they should not be expensive.
In fact there could be one on gunbroker listed a couple opf days ago that could be interesting.
If you have questions I will be glad to help.
Best regards
Robert Olivier
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Old 02-02-2011, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
a buncha dudes dressing up in uniforms pretending to bayonet one another doesnt seem the way to honor them.
No offense taken. But we don't honor them by 'pretending' to battle; we try to gain understanding of what it was like for them. We've all read the books & collected the items. But it only goes so far. It's easy to sit in a comfy chair & read about an experience, it's quite another actually going through it yourself (to at least a certain degree).

That being said, we (attempt) to honor them by going to various public events & schools and try to teach others about the war. WWI is not nearly as widely known about as say WWII. I think it doesn't honor WWI veterans & soldiers by simply letting the American public forget about the war. Heh, and suppose if we weren't standing there in a uniform with period equipment- no one would listen to us!

True, most of our wives/girlfriends make fun of us & say we're wearing costumes and are a bunch of nerds. But we love 'em anyway

With all of that in mind- we (the GWHS) pride ourselves in being professionals. Some *cough cough* organizations have a few overzealous 'mall-ninja' wanna-be's. Not so here.

If reenacting is not your cup of tea- that's fine- but someday you should come say hi at one of our public events we attend. (Our battles are not open to the public BTW)

-Palimino

P.s. oh and thanks for the compliment on the KuK website. I'm kind of odd- in that I liked WWI because not much is known about it- and I really liked Imperial & Royal Austro-Hungary because even less is known about it! But KuK IR 61 tries to change that (as well as gain perspective of what it was like for the average Austro-Hungarian soldier).
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Last edited by Palimino Stripe; 02-02-2011 at 10:09 PM..
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  #11  
Old 02-03-2011, 10:05 AM
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Default to vivelacolo and palimino

gents,

thank you so much for all the info! you guys are great.

absolutely excellent info from the both of you in your respective areas of knowledge, i really appreciate the time and thought you both put into your replies.

i've decided to pass on that auction even though he counter offered when PMd and came down some.

And good supplementary info on the raison d'etre of the reenactors and stuff, that makes more sense as well.

cheers guys!
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Old 02-03-2011, 1:13 PM
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I don't seem to get why you do not want one of the three round Berthiers.

The one I got was fricking beautiful - Remington - no serial number - never shipped to France type.

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Old 02-04-2011, 9:59 AM
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I don't seem to get why you do not want one of the three round Berthiers.

The one I got was fricking beautiful - Remington - no serial number - never shipped to France type.

monsiuer head de la butt,

sounds wonderful! indeed, your statement makes me consider reevaluating that constraint.

however, i have the interwar carbine version (see below), and frankly, was hoping to get the long rifle version of exactly this for stripper clip simplicity sake. however, between this comment and previous ones, perhaps i should reconsider this stance.

i again thank all who've contributed to this thread, i've learned loads.

basically all i want is what i linked to above, the rifle with the evidently bogus "sharpshooter" sight; i just want a nice ww1 french rifle with a 5rd mag. you'd think with the millions that were made it wouldnt be so freakin' hard.

thanks for commenting, sir

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Old 02-04-2011, 10:24 AM
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Randomly read this thread, was interested in Berthier, looked up Berthier, found this awesome trainer version below. Check out the item about 1/3 down the page "Scarce French Mannlicher Berthier M.1916 single shot trainer" interesting piece there!

http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/Rifles22.html
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  #15  
Old 02-04-2011, 12:22 PM
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i just want this....

is that....

is that...

is that... SO WRONG??

<sobs>
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