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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:12 AM
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Default 30 Remington AR V 300 AAC Blackout

Just started seeing post-SHOT hype on the 300 AAC Blackout.

The 30 Remington AR Cartridge out performs the 300 BLK (or AAC Blackout or Blackout or 7.62x35), and so could also be downloaded to values to match the 300 BLK (Sounds more like a Mercedes product, but...).

Both fit the AR15 platform, use the standard mags, and require a different upper.

What is the hype (what am I missing) over this new cartridge that doesn't seem to do anything different than the already available 30 AR from Remington with factory ammo available? (well, no 220 gr subsonic from Remington, but I am sure someone will make it, or Remington will in a police/military line)
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:25 AM
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technically, 300blk only requires a barrel change, not a complete upper. don't know if the 30 remington uses the standard ar bolt, but the 300blk does. 300blk uses a shortened 223/556 casing and standard 30 cal bullets. again, i don't know much about the 30 remington so can't really comment on that. i've been VERY interested in machining a 30 cal barrel blank to test the 300blk, but can't afford to start handloading right now, and factory ammo is in somewhat short supply as of the last time i checked.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:34 AM
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The 30AR Remington uses a .308 bolt fitted in an AR-15 carrier and a modified barrel extention.

The 30AR Remington is based on the 30 Remington which is a cartridge that they designed to compete with the 30/30 before WWII and the lever action rifle. It never took off but basically is similar to the 30/30.

The 30BLK is based on the .223/5.56 and uses the same BCG. It is supposed to be more reliable in the rifle. I shot a prototype a while ago at a completion and it was pretty cool but really do not know too much about it.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:34 AM
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The 30 AR does require a complete upper - different bolt face/base cartrdige - so that is a difference. But it does use standard .308 DIA bullets.

Can the 300 BLK be loaded UP to 30 AR velocities/pressures?

Just kinda seems like a little wildcat fever spreading.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Krynn View Post
The 30AR Remington uses a .308 bolt fitted in an AR-15 carrier and a modified barrel extention.

The 30AR Remington is based on the 30 Remington which is a cartridge that they designed to compete with the 30/30 before WWII and the lever action rifle. It never took off but basically is similar to the 30/30.

The 30BLK is based on the .223/5.56 and uses the same BCG. It is supposed to be more reliable in the rifle. I shot a prototype a while ago at a completion and it was pretty cool but really do not know too much about it.
The 30 Remington (actually dates way back to 1906) and the 30 Remington AR are two different cartridges.
does make it rather confusing - but doubt you can find the old .30 Rem boxes of ammo anywhere...
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:42 AM
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Freedom Group owns Remington and ACC, it looks like some re-alinement is taking place over the offerings of wildcat cartridges. It is going to be interesting on which way it goes within Freedom Group. I believe both are SAAMI speced so it will be interesting if it goes anywhere or just becomes another 6.8spc vs 6.5 Grendal debate.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:44 AM
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300blk has been compared to 300fireball. all i've seen so far are what's on the website for the most part. don't know if 30 ar pressures are possible. they've got more info over at silencertalk. seems simplicity is one of the biggest advantages since it uses all standard parts besides the barrel.

edit: also just read someone heard at shot that hornady and atk (federal) are working on loads for the 300blk

Last edited by cheenky; 01-28-2011 at 11:50 AM..
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocSkinner View Post
The 30 Remington (actually dates way back to 1906) and the 30 Remington AR are two different cartridges.
does make it rather confusing - but doubt you can find the old .30 Rem boxes of ammo anywhere...
I know they are different. The 30AR Remington is based on the 30 Remington.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:08 PM
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Hmmm, another attempt for a bigger projectile in a .223 case. Dimensions of 7.62x35 remind me of something...what could it be?

I'd neck up a .223 case to 6mmx45 but not 7.62x35. Cutting down the case length by 10mm puts a real hurt on velocity.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:19 PM
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IIRC the 30 Remington AR has a super fat case and thus greatly limits its capacity in a normal 30rd 5.56 mag. And I think it ends up being single stack.

300 BLK, being based on the 5.56 case, I am guessing that it does not hinder mag capacity.

That is something to consider.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Krynn View Post
I know they are different. The 30AR Remington is based on the 30 Remington.
30 Remington - Case length: 2.03" - RIM DIAMETER: 0.421"
30 AR - Case length: 1.53" - RIM DIAMETER: 0.492"

I know you can blow out case sizes a tad in wildcats from the base dimensions, but never heard of "blowing out" the rim size!

The 30AR is based off of the .450 Bushmaster case.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpach View Post
IIRC the 30 Remington AR has a super fat case and thus greatly limits its capacity in a normal 30rd 5.56 mag. And I think it ends up being single stack.

300 BLK, being based on the 5.56 case, I am guessing that it does not hinder mag capacity.

That is something to consider.
That makes sense, and hadn't thought of that one!! Same as the 450 Bushmaster then - fat case severely hurts round count...

So 300 BLK keeps same round count, but with slower velocities. Probably not using it for 600m competitions anyway!
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Old 01-28-2011, 1:30 PM
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Yup. 300blk holds 30rouds n a 30rds mag. Se bullet just neck up/down depending on how you look at it, with a 556 brass.

Like mention before, it's only the barrel that needs changing, which I think "might" spark the millitsry intrest since they don't have to do much to change like the 6.8, 6.5 etc to name a few.
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Old 01-28-2011, 1:48 PM
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Unless NATO as a whole switch's to it there will be no new caliber for general issue. As broke as the EU is I doubt they will want to switch anything.
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Old 01-28-2011, 3:18 PM
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Keep in mind that AAC is owned by Remington. It is a big push to standardize a new cartridge that many use the 300 whisper round. The benefit it to be able to shoot super and sub sonic rounds, hence why AAC is involved since they are a suppressor company.

Like other have mentioned it is easy to implement in existing AR platform rifles because you only need to change the barrel. This keeps the strength of the bolt because you don't need a larger bolt face.

This isn't designed to be a long range round either. The supersonic version has only about 400 yards effective range, but much more energy than a .223 and you can shoot 200gr bullets.

There is still a lot of testing and I am in the middle of building a bolt action gun for this round. Basically because it's fun, but I think this caliber has a lot of potential for a short range round that has a big impact. There are a few threads out there that show what can be done.

http://300aacblackout.com/
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...Number=2325672
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...Number=2194109
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Old 01-28-2011, 6:28 PM
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You are correct and I was wong.

I was reading the Hodgdons 2011 annual manual and it mentioned both the 30 remington Ar and the 30 remington, I got a little mixed up today.

The 30 remington Ar is based on the .450 bushmaster.

It was the 6.8 that is based on the 30 remington.

Sorry.
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Old 01-29-2011, 1:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Krynn View Post
You are correct and I was wong.

I was reading the Hodgdons 2011 annual manual and it mentioned both the 30 remington Ar and the 30 remington, I got a little mixed up today.

The 30 remington Ar is based on the .450 bushmaster.

It was the 6.8 that is based on the 30 remington.

Sorry.
no problem!
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Old 01-29-2011, 4:15 PM
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any other rounds fit an old 30 remington from around 1912? I have one and $35 per 20 rounds is a little steep per plunk.
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Old 01-31-2011, 8:51 AM
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any other rounds fit an old 30 remington from around 1912? I have one and $35 per 20 rounds is a little steep per plunk.
Buy a nice new plinker that uses cheaper ammo!
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