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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 01-27-2011, 2:45 PM
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Default CA ammo shipping Law

Hello Cal Guns people.

I ship a lot of ammo packages to CA and had a customer call in today and go totally nuts today because we did not require a signature. He said it was a violation of CA law to ship ammo there without having it signed for and with a lot of enthusiasm I might add, and said we was inclined to report that to state authorities. He also said that when he saw the UPS driver dropped off the package that he chased him down before he could get in the truck and yelled at him too, then he called UPS to complain.

I had never heard of any CA law requiring signature for ammo. Does anyone know if this guy is just crazy or is there any sort of law there that requires a signature for ammo?

thanks

SG
  #2  
Old 01-27-2011, 2:57 PM
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I've never heard of it either...

And I have never signed for an ammo delivery....
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Old 01-27-2011, 2:58 PM
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If I had to sign for ammo instead of them leaving it at my doorstep I'd always have to go get it at UPS and pick it up.

FUD

Most places have a check box or a box to put shipping notes, so if he wanted to require signature he should've put it in there.
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:00 PM
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Well if you leave a note on your door asking them to not leave a package...well they are more than happy to work with you.
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:01 PM
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Yep, with customers like that who needs enemies?

By the way, looks like you have some good prices on 9mm. I promise not to scream at you
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:01 PM
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I'd ask him to provide a reference to the law he's referring to
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:03 PM
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Oh my.

That sounds as if that customer missed the overturning of AB 962 last week.

Had that law gone into effect on Feb 1 as scheduled, new requirements would have been imposed.

The law did not go into effect.

Now, personally, I would prefer 'signature required' on ammo shipments; that tends to mean that fewer boxes of ammo get left on my porch by the delivery guys. But if you're following Federal law and being sure your buyers are 18+ for rifle ammo and 21+ for handgun ammo, I believe you are doing all that is currently required.
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:05 PM
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He's might thinking of AB962, and may not realize it is for all extents and purposes completely dead.

But now that it is, signature is by no means required. He didn't request it, and thus you didn't make it adult signature required, so it's his fault if he wanted it but neglected to ask for it.
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:07 PM
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You can't sell rifle ammo to people who aren't 18 and handgun ammo to people who aren't 21. If you don't require a person to send you a copy of their ID most shippers ship the item "adult signature required"
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:17 PM
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Don't know about a law but I have never signed for ammo either. How did this person even know the box contained ammo? Was it his ammo or a neighbors ammo? Could be another Nancy P want-a-be or off his meds. The anti's have been exceptionally loud about gun control these past two weeks.
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe View Post
You can't sell rifle ammo to people who aren't 18 and handgun ammo to people who aren't 21. If you don't require a person to send you a copy of their ID most shippers ship the item "adult signature required"
I've noticed only a few online retailers do this. Most state that it is the responsibility of the purchaser to ensure they're complying with all applicable laws and regulations, both federal and state.

Most online retailers that I do business with neither require any sort of signature on delivery nor ID. The only exception is AIM. I order from SGAmmo, Wideners, and others routinely as I appreciate their prices, fast shipping, and customer service and no-hassle policies with respect to signature delivery or ID.

The only reason I didn't walk away from AIM is that it was easy to upload a PDF of my DL on their website. Vendors that require a fax or mail-in copy don't get my business due to the hassle.

I would stay with what you've got SGAmmo... it ain't broke (except according to the screwball that called you) so don't fix it.
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:19 PM
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Im thinking the same thing as the Librarian. Thinking it was someone who is totally confused. even under AB962 however he still could not receive ammo directly unless he was licensed correct?


I have a mailbox at our local UPS store, that is where I have EVERYTHING I order sent to, that way I know someone is signing for it and it isnt just being left on a porch somewhere.

But to the OP. no, nothing illegal about what you did since AB962 was overturned.
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack L View Post
Don't know about a law but I have never signed for ammo either. How did this person even know the box contained ammo? Was it his ammo or a neighbors ammo? Could be another Nancy P want-a-be or off his meds. The anti's have been exceptionally loud about gun control these past two weeks.
The UPS drivers know... there is a ORD-M sticker on it that says "cartridges, small arms".

Before AB962 got thrown out, our UPS driver told me he is getting a ton of it. Literally said that one day his truck had almost 25% of the deliveries had those cute little ORD stickers on them. Nice to know the neighbors are well armed!
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:37 PM
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thanks everyone, I feel better already...SG
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGAmmo View Post
He also said that when he saw the UPS driver dropped off the package that he chased him down before he could get in the truck and yelled at him too.
Was this him?

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Old 01-27-2011, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SGAmmo View Post
thanks everyone, I feel better already...SG
Can we get a Calguns discount for offering you legal advise?
  #17  
Old 01-27-2011, 3:52 PM
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My UPS driver made me sign for the last batch of ammo I bought from Cabalas ?
He usually rings the bell puts the package down and is in the truck before I get to the door. This time he said I need to sign, I said "really?" he said it's because it's ammo. It was the first time I ever remember doing so??
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGAmmo View Post
thanks everyone, I feel better already...SG
I think the guy is stuck somewhere between the now defunct ammo bill and prior experience.

Some vendors ship UPS, some USPS and some FedEx. And each vendor has set up shipping instructions with each shipper. For example, one place I order occasionally from uses FedEX, and although it's not a FedEx rule, the vendor specifies that a signature of the purchaser is required upon delivery. No leaving at the neighbor, no having wifey sign, only the receipient can sign. A real PITA.
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recession View Post
Was this him?

lol

i'm still laughing as i type this. Good one
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Old 01-27-2011, 3:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recession View Post
Can we get a Calguns discount for offering you legal advise?
Yeah... preferably retroactive as I have spent almost $2k at SGAmmo in the last 3 months
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  #21  
Old 01-27-2011, 4:02 PM
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I actually find it quite annoying when companies require a signature for ammo delivery. It's not necessary. Keep doing what you are doing!
  #22  
Old 01-27-2011, 4:17 PM
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I get a lot of ammo delivered by ups , never been asked to sign for anything. some times I find the box at the gate, no problem the gate is 11/2 miles from the street and a half a mile from the neighbor. I'm almost always home when it arrives anyway.
  #23  
Old 01-27-2011, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGAmmo View Post
Hello Cal Guns people.

I ship a lot of ammo packages to CA and had a customer call in today and go totally nuts today because we did not require a signature. He said it was a violation of CA law to ship ammo there without having it signed for and with a lot of enthusiasm I might add, and said we was inclined to report that to state authorities. He also said that when he saw the UPS driver dropped off the package that he chased him down before he could get in the truck and yelled at him too, then he called UPS to complain.

I had never heard of any CA law requiring signature for ammo. Does anyone know if this guy is just crazy or is there any sort of law there that requires a signature for ammo?

thanks

SG
He is a moron. Whats his Calguns name? I hope you put him on your black list.
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Old 01-27-2011, 4:35 PM
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OP, people like the one you complained about would seem to be rare, most Californians appreciate being able to get ammo and supplies cheaper online, out of state if necessary. I appreciate your willingness to support our 2a rights in CA.

ps: tell your customer to post here for an answer to his questions.
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Old 01-27-2011, 4:41 PM
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Flag his account and make sure that you charge him a bit more and ship all his future orders "adult signature required".
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Old 01-27-2011, 4:44 PM
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Anybody entertain the idea of this just being an anti trying to scare an out of state ammo source from shipping here? I'm sure all sorts of people at Brady know about how sheepish places like Cheaper Than Dirt can be about shipping out of country to the nation of California.
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Old 01-27-2011, 4:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGAmmo View Post
Hello Cal Guns people.

I ship a lot of ammo packages to CA and had a customer call in today and go totally nuts today because we did not require a signature. He said it was a violation of CA law to ship ammo there without having it signed for and with a lot of enthusiasm I might add, and said we was inclined to report that to state authorities. He also said that when he saw the UPS driver dropped off the package that he chased him down before he could get in the truck and yelled at him too, then he called UPS to complain.

I had never heard of any CA law requiring signature for ammo. Does anyone know if this guy is just crazy or is there any sort of law there that requires a signature for ammo?

thanks

SG
Sounds to me like you do not need that person as a customer and no law that i know of that requires that.

Also welcome aboard I am one of your customers and was glad to see you were still going to continue to ship ammo other than handgun, even if
AB962 had gone into effect.

Thanks for your great service as always.
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Old 01-27-2011, 5:14 PM
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Hey, SGAmmo, good to see you. I, also am a customer of yours. This sounds like nonsense to me. So far as I know, it is up to the vendors to require a signature or not. I'll catch you on the next order, sir.
  #29  
Old 01-27-2011, 5:30 PM
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Another thing that may have confused the buyer is that it's up to the delivery driver at times if they want to collect a signature or not. I've made repeat purchases from several retailers and am rarely home to greet the driver. Some will hide the package behind a bush, some will leave it in front of the door, some will leave their 'attempted delivery' note. Perhaps his usual driver always required a signature, and got a bit panicked when this latest one didn't. I also look forward to ordering from you soon!
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Old 01-27-2011, 5:49 PM
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I've ordered ammo in bulk quantities many times from Cabelas, BulkAmmo, Ammoman, and 2 or 3 others. I've had it delivered by both UPS and FedEx.

No signature was ever required. They've left it on my door stoop each time without signature.
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Old 01-27-2011, 6:02 PM
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Proof of age is required for ammo deliveries from UPS or FedX in Ca. Adult signature is required by law. If you are obviously over 18, The signature is sometimes waived as a courtesy. The drivers only want to deliver and move on and, like some LEO's, don't know all the law. Be thankful that ammo can be delivered at all. I can't believe someone would chase down a UPS truck to B#tch about it...
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  #32  
Old 01-27-2011, 6:48 PM
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If you order ammo from Sportsmans Guide, they claim (I know it's bogus), that California law requires an adult signature.

It's very unfortunate, but businesses and many individuals inside and outside of this state make up thier own laws, pass rumors, or repeat lies, and it's generally accepted as fact.

I've had a guy on gunbroker refuse to sell me an M16A1 upper to me after I won. He claimed the BCG, the flash suppressor were illegal to own in california PERIOD!
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Old 01-27-2011, 6:52 PM
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This guy is nuts!. I never have to sign and I have bought plent of ammo via the internet.
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Old 01-27-2011, 6:57 PM
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I only order ammo from places that do not require signatures. I'm never home in time for the delivery, they try to deliver 2 more times and then it goes to the main hub where I have to go pick it up at. That whole process usually takes about 4 extra days and it's way out of my way.
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Old 01-27-2011, 6:59 PM
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I have never once....ever...signed for ammo shipped from an online store via UPS.

The person that called you needs their head examined and should never be allowed around firearms ever.

They're out there, far and few....but they are out there......


Quote:
Originally Posted by SGAmmo View Post
Hello Cal Guns people

I ship a lot of ammo packages to CA and had a customer call in today and go totally nuts today because we did not require a signature. He said it was a violation of CA law to ship ammo there without having it signed for and with a lot of enthusiasm I might add, and said we was inclined to report that to state authorities. He also said that when he saw the UPS driver dropped off the package that he chased him down before he could get in the truck and yelled at him too, then he called UPS to complain.

I had never heard of any CA law requiring signature for ammo. Does anyone know if this guy is just crazy or is there any sort of law there that requires a signature for ammo?

thanks

SG
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Old 01-27-2011, 7:23 PM
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Nice prices SG and fair shipping, I think I found me another online dealer.
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Old 01-27-2011, 7:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGAmmo View Post
Hello Cal Guns people.

I ship a lot of ammo packages to CA and had a customer call in today and go totally nuts today because we did not require a signature. He said it was a violation of CA law to ship ammo there without having it signed for and with a lot of enthusiasm I might add, and said we was inclined to report that to state authorities. He also said that when he saw the UPS driver dropped off the package that he chased him down before he could get in the truck and yelled at him too, then he called UPS to complain.

I had never heard of any CA law requiring signature for ammo. Does anyone know if this guy is just crazy or is there any sort of law there that requires a signature for ammo?

thanks

SG
Did his name start with Kevin and end with DeLeon? Sorry, I couldn't resist.
  #38  
Old 01-27-2011, 7:46 PM
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Maybe you could offer it as an additional service that someone could select for $5 or something like that. It would be interesting to see how many people would chose it. That would help folks realize that without selecting it that a signature was not going to be required.

I had a problem with a delivery last week that I'd rather not post, but I did call and complain to FedEx.
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Old 01-27-2011, 8:02 PM
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Forget him and give me the ammo!!!!!
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Old 01-27-2011, 8:53 PM
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all the places i buy from require a one time picture id faxed or e-mailed. not just for ca either. the age requirements are federal. i have a copy in pdf for just such occaisions. some ask for a disclaimer stating it's legal for you to buy. this is in my pdf also.
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