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  #41  
Old 04-29-2014, 2:18 PM
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What defines a parts kit? If I buy a polish ak magazine body, and have it shipped to my home in california with the floor plate, follower, and spring in a different package, would this still be considered a kit? Note that I am not trying to build a new magazine, rather repair an old ak mag that has a dent in the body, and will not allow the follower to pass said dent.
  #42  
Old 04-29-2014, 2:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TheComebacKid View Post
What defines a parts kit? If I buy a polish ak magazine body, and have it shipped to my home in california with the floor plate, follower, and spring in a different package, would this still be considered a kit? Note that I am not trying to build a new magazine, rather repair an old ak mag that has a dent in the body, and will not allow the follower to pass said dent.
Please read the stickies:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=904677

I certainly would not do what you are proposing, but I don't like jail.
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  #43  
Old 04-29-2014, 2:29 PM
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I'm guessing you STILL did not read the link.
So basically my question cannot be answered with certainty?
  #44  
Old 04-29-2014, 2:34 PM
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So basically my question cannot be answered with certainty?
Exactly.
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  #45  
Old 05-09-2014, 7:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCM View Post
For a new CCW permit in Ca. can I use (3) hand guns that I purchased here legally yrs ago that came with standard capacity over 10 round mags?
Have not seen anything on that yet. I really would hate to have to buy new 10 round mags to replace the original factory 12-15 round mags the guns came with. They were purchased and registered here in Ca. The term used to be pre-ban. Not sure what they/we are calling it now.
Thanks
The mags are legal. Acceptability for CCW is up to your county's CCW division.
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  #46  
Old 05-15-2014, 10:59 AM
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Fixed the wiki - now says
Quote:
Yes - BUT you cannot bring them back to California. It is no longer (2014 and forward) legal to import large-capacity magazines as disassembled parts kits.
Thanks for pointing it out; apologies for not fixing it earlier.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

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  #47  
Old 05-19-2014, 6:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MauserMike View Post
This is insane.... every LEO or gun shop you ask has 100% different answers. How can a state uphold laws that they dont even know or understand. how are we supposed to follow the rules when everything is in the gray? isnt legal but its not illegal so that means its legal right???? F- that SH!!!!!T,

so does anyone think they know anything about magazine in california and if you can use them or not without getting peppersprayed and tazed?
Really not that complicated. Read post 1. Read it a couple times if you need to. Use your best judgement, and keep your mouth shut if approached by law enforcement about it. Fact is even actual clear cut violations are 99% unenforceable unless you open your mouth and say something stupid (which is usually anything at all). So if you stay legal to your best understanding, don't volunteer for a finger fornication of everything you own, and don't open your mouth to explain to officer friendly when/how/what you acquired, you'll be fine.

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  #48  
Old 05-26-2014, 2:06 PM
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What would be the legality of ordering normal capacity magazines from an online seller, having them shipped directly to an out-of-state location to be blocked, then shipping/bringing them back to Kalifornia? Would this be legal? And if so, does anyone know of a shop or business that would provide a service like this?
  #49  
Old 05-26-2014, 2:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coleschmidt View Post
What would be the legality of ordering normal capacity magazines from an online seller, having them shipped directly to an out-of-state location to be blocked, then shipping/bringing them back to Kalifornia?

Would this be legal?

And if so, does anyone know of a shop or business that would provide a service like this?
Is it legal to import 10-round magazines? Yes.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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  #50  
Old 06-05-2014, 2:27 PM
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So here is my question; and you will have to forgive what is perhaps my ignorance (I am new to all of this), but I, having read all of the posts in this thread up until this point, including the first post and the wiki, have not seen asked or answered the following question:

Assuming that sometime at least 3 years ago (given the 3 year statute of limitations), perhaps 5 years or maybe 10 years ago but after 2000 (which would make them legal so long as they were possessed in California at the time), an individual imported, manufactured, received, purchased, etc., either intentionally or unintentionally, a "large-capacity magazine", and given that-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
It is perfectly legal - no restrictions at all in the Penal Code - to own and possess and use those "large-capacity magazines" in any gun*(see footnote), at any time, under any circumstances where it is legal to use a gun. Ownership, possession and use of "large-capacity magazines" are not crimes in PC; there is no section under which you could be charged.
Wouldn't all such magazines be now, for all intents and purposes, legal or at least unprosecutable? And by extension any magazine that lacks identifiable date specific markings as to manufacture, assuming you weren't caught red handed in some sort of sting operation (or a magazine belonging to a gun that is itself not at least three years old), be fine as well?

Or perhaps I'm completely misunderstanding how this works..?

Please don't misconsrue this question to be encouraging or condoning the breaking of the law in any way, but take it for what it is, an attempt to more perfectly understand a grievously imperfect law.

Last edited by SNBI; 06-05-2014 at 3:29 PM..
  #51  
Old 06-11-2014, 9:30 PM
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Can you Still sell, trade, give individual parts for example just base plates?
  #52  
Old 06-14-2014, 9:55 AM
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Quick question, but first a scenario. I have a Glock 20 that I bought in '93 came with 2 15 rnd mags. I know I can legally own them and use them to this day. I even purchased 5 more mags, albeit at black market prices, after 1994 but before 2000.

I'm considering buying a Glock 29. It will accept G20 mags. Would it be legal to use the 15 round mags in it if I so chose? I don't see any practical reason for it, just curious.
  #53  
Old 06-14-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cantdance View Post
I'm considering buying a Glock 29. It will accept G20 mags. Would it be legal to use the 15 round mags in it if I so chose?

There is no PC that I'm aware of that would prohibit this. The mags themselves are regulated not the guns you use them in (assuming it doesn't have a BB). Matter of fact Glock mags are only stamped with caliber and capacity not model number, and we're originally designed to be interchangeable with different models anyways.

I don't see how this would be any different then using grandfathered AR mags in a featureless different brand or non AR rifle Sig, IMI, etc...
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  #54  
Old 06-16-2014, 9:32 PM
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Is it legal to have just the covers of a 30 round magazine sent to california with the springs and such removed?
  #55  
Old 06-16-2014, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calimstng66 View Post
Is it legal to have just the covers of a 30 round magazine sent to california with the springs and such removed?
Covers?

Bodies, perhaps?

We don't know what is the minimum to satisfy the definition of an illegal 'conversion kit'.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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  #56  
Old 06-17-2014, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Covers?

Bodies, perhaps?

We don't know what is the minimum to satisfy the definition of an illegal 'conversion kit'.
Parts that are the same for 10s, 15s, 20s, 30s, etc. should be fine. Parts specific to >10 I agree are a grey area. I personally would bring in complete 10/30s or nothing and even then, discretion and silence.
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  #57  
Old 06-17-2014, 5:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calimstng66 View Post
Is it legal to have just the covers of a 30 round magazine sent to california with the springs and such removed?
If by covers we mean + 10 magazine bodys, then this should help:

Section 32311.

"(b) For purposes of this section, a "large capacity magazine conversion kit" is a device or combination of parts of a fully functioning large-capacity magazine, including, but not limited to, the body spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine."

Although poorly stated, a +10 magazine body is "capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine." Importing one could be easily defined by the DOJ/AG/DA as manufacturing a large capacity magazine where none previously existed prior to January 1, 2000. See section 32310 - the original large capacity mag ban law:

"(b) For purposes of this section, "manufacturing" includes both fabricating a magazine and assembling a magazine from a combination of parts, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, to be a fully functioning large-capacity magazine."

There is plenty of room for interpretation in both Sections 32310 and 32311 for the state to make a case.
Importing an unblocked "large capacity" magazine body could open up a legal can of worms.
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  #58  
Old 06-19-2014, 9:15 PM
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Thanks for the info I appreciate it
  #59  
Old 07-01-2014, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imarangemaster View Post
True, that's why when I go to a public range, I use 10s. Save my high caps for the desert, even if legal. For some funny reason, no one blinks at my USGI M1 Carbine with a 15 rounder... They must look like they go together.
People are accustomed enough to limited mags that even the fuddy duddies don't whine about them anymore. But there is always that tool counting your shots to see if it is really just 10...
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Old 07-02-2014, 7:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calimstng66 View Post
Is it legal to have just the covers of a 30 round magazine sent to california with the springs and such removed?
Why bother when you can still legally purchase a 10/30 mag here and online?

FYI- a 10/30 is a 30 round magazine that has been limited to only holding 10 rounds!
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  #61  
Old 07-02-2014, 2:58 PM
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Could dig out an answer, so I'll ask. Sorry if dupe.

Could you send a 10+ magazine to your CA FFL who can LEGALLY receive it, and send him a magazine block that will block down to 10 rounds and have him create a 10 round magazine for you?

I think the sticky question is that if YOU bought the magazine and YOU are no the FFL, even if the magazine will ONLY be received LEGALLY by the licensed FFL ... are you the "importer" since you caused the magazine to be imported into CA? At no time would any non-licensed-to-receive-a-high-capacity-magazine person have the magazine. So straight from out of state to a legally licensed FFL (licensed to receive high caps), then a 10 rounder from him to you?
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  #62  
Old 07-02-2014, 4:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
Could dig out an answer, so I'll ask. Sorry if dupe.

Could you send a 10+ magazine to your CA FFL who can LEGALLY receive it, and send him a magazine block that will block down to 10 rounds and have him create a 10 round magazine for you?

I think the sticky question is that if YOU bought the magazine and YOU are no the FFL, even if the magazine will ONLY be received LEGALLY by the licensed FFL ... are you the "importer" since you caused the magazine to be imported into CA? At no time would any non-licensed-to-receive-a-high-capacity-magazine person have the magazine. So straight from out of state to a legally licensed FFL (licensed to receive high caps), then a 10 rounder from him to you?
I don't believe anyone will sell/ship hi-cap mags to anyone in California, FFL or not.

I think you could buy mag blocks ahead of time, then travel to AZ or NV buy 30 rounders and convert them prior to returning to CA. but only if you were going to that other state for another reason, otherwise your better off ordering 10/30's online! ...and I doubt you'd save any significant amount of cash!
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  #63  
Old 07-03-2014, 9:07 AM
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There is a hi-cap permit separate from the CA-FFL that a dealer has to have. There are still in state dealers doing in house conversions, and there are still out of state dealers shipping 10/30's.

Other option as mentioned is pre-order limiters, and add an errand to your next vacation out of state. The nuances are tedious, but I'd argue that anything from permanently modifying (ie, glue that is as strong or stronger than the material, or riveting), to part swapping (swap floor plate for integrated limiter and ditch the floor plates so that you are not returning with anything that could be assembled into a >10 round magazine so neither kit nor permanent modification clauses are triggered) covers the letter of the law, and your silence avoids "imperial entanglements" to begin with.
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Old 07-03-2014, 9:19 AM
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Originally Posted by inbox485 View Post
There is a hi-cap permit separate from the CA-FFL that a dealer has to have. There are still in state dealers doing in house conversions, and there are still out of state dealers shipping 10/30's.
Hmmmm... I didn't know that! But I've only seen prepackaged 10/30's for sale locally, and see them online all the time.
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  #65  
Old 07-17-2014, 9:13 AM
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I qualified with my 15 round Glock 22 I purchased here legally in 1994. And is now one of the three on my CCW.

As far as the exact purchase date for the law, I am not sure? Was it 1996? 1999? 2001? That would be helpfull to post if someone here knows the actual date. There were so many laws thrown around back then it is easy to get it wrong. Some are still valid while others may not be.
  #66  
Old 08-20-2014, 10:56 PM
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This thread is primarily concerned with State laws.

However, in 2014, there are two local laws worth knowing about.

Sunnyvale and San Francisco each have their own large-capacity magazine ban.

Sunnyvale Municipal Code section 9.44.050 bans the possession and use of common, standard-capacity “ammunition feeding devices” or “magazines” capable of holding more than ten rounds. The Ordinance took effect on December 6, 2013, ten (10) days after the Sunnyvale City Council declared the vote.

The ordinance is being challenged; see the thread on Fyock v Sunnyvale, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=867249

On April 7, 2014, the San Francisco Ordinance took effect. It, too, bans possession of large-capacity magazines.

This ordinance, too, is being challenged (SFVPOA v. SAN FRANCISCO) ; see the thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=917138

Until a resolution in favor of the plaintiffs may be secured, carry of large-capacity magazines in each of San Francisco and Sunnyvale is illegal.

Please direct questions to the threads linked.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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  #67  
Old 08-19-2016, 1:54 PM
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Default Effective July 1, 2017, 'large-capacity magazines' are illegal

New law passed in 2016 changes the rules:

SB 1446

Quote:
(b) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing July 1, 2017, any person in this state who possesses any large-capacity magazine,

regardless of the date the magazine was acquired,

is guilty of an infraction

punishable by a fine not to exceed one hundred dollars ($100) upon the first offense,
by a fine not to exceed two hundred fifty dollars ($250) upon the second offense,
and by a fine not to exceed five hundred dollars ($500) upon the third or subsequent offense.

(c) A person who, prior to July 1, 2017, legally possesses a large-capacity magazine shall dispose of that magazine by any of the following means:
(1) Remove the large-capacity magazine from the state.
(2) Prior to July 1, 2017, sell the large-capacity magazine to a licensed firearms dealer.
(3) Destroy the large-capacity magazine.
(4) Surrender the large-capacity magazine to a law enforcement agency for destruction.

(d) For purposes of this section, “manufacturing” includes both
fabricating a magazine
and
assembling a magazine from a combination of parts, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, to be a fully functioning large-capacity magazine.

(e) The provisions of this section are cumulative and shall not be construed as restricting the application of any other law. However, an act or omission punishable in different ways by different provisions of this code shall not be punished under more than one provision.
and one usable exception for the commoners
Quote:
(f) A person lawfully in possession of a firearm that the person obtained prior to January 1, 2000,

if no magazine that holds 10 or fewer rounds of ammunition is compatible with that firearm

and the person possesses the large-capacity magazine solely for use with that firearm.
ETA - Blocked magazines are legal to buy, sell, own and use, if the capacity is 10 or fewer and the block-method is 'permanent'.

That was in several of the prior posts, but not as an explicit statement.

No, it's still the case that no one really knows what 'permanent' might mean.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Last edited by Librarian; 05-18-2017 at 11:31 PM..
  #68  
Old 08-29-2017, 4:32 PM
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First post updated: City of LA got rid of the city's magazine ban effective 1 July 2017.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


  #69  
Old 09-22-2018, 8:20 PM
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16 more posts deleted; almost all relied on pre-2017 law on possession for accuracy - they were fine when posted, but out of date in 2018.

And maybe I'll get to revise this yet again to restore 'possession' as legal, pace the nuisance language.
__________________
No one will really understand politics until they understand that politicians are not trying to solve our problems. They are trying to solve their own problems - of which getting elected and re-elected are number one and number two. Whatever is number three is far behind.
- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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