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#41
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See http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes.xhtml and select Penal Code for the official state site. Annoyingly, this version of the legislature's code repository does not allow permalinks. Yes, the absence of such an exemption there is the reason it does not apply to magazines. Rather, old 12020(b)(7) is now PC 17705, an exception to PC 16590 The wiki has a 'translation' document, old numbers to new, here.
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[Carol Ann voice]The Legislature is baaa-ack .... [/Carol Ann voice] There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. ![]() Last edited by Librarian; 02-01-2014 at 10:06 AM.. |
#42
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Does this mean that up until 2012, CAL. PEN. CODE § 12020 was still in force, meaning that it was legal up through 2012 to buy, sell or transfer a firearm with a high capacity magazine as long as the firearm qualified as a curio/relic? Again, I really appreciate the help.
EDIT: I checked out PC 16590 which states, As used in this part, “generally prohibited weapon” means any of the following: Subdivision (l) of PC 16590states, A large-capacity magazine, as prohibited by Section 32310.. In turn, as you pointed out, PC 17705 is the replacement for PC 12020 (b) 7, and it states the following. 17705 (a) The provisions listed in Section 16590 do not apply to any firearm or ammunition that is a curio or relic as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations and that is in the possession of a person permitted to possess the items under Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. This seems to state that the designation of a firearm as a "generally prohibited weapon" as described in all of the subdivisions of section 16590 (PC 16590) do not apply if the firearm is a curio/relic. This would then mean that subdivision (I) of PC 16590 (large-capacity magazine) would not apply to curio/relic firearms. So, even though PC 16590 has replaced 12020(b)(7), it is stating exactly the same thing as 12020(b)(7). Last edited by mosinitis; 02-01-2014 at 11:21 AM.. |
#43
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A 17705 curio and relic is exempt from the 'generally prohibited weapon' category - but other than that designation in 16590, I don't see where 'generally prohibited weapon' gets used in PC. That both large capacity magazines and C&R guns are listed there does not connect the two via 'magazine'.
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[Carol Ann voice]The Legislature is baaa-ack .... [/Carol Ann voice] There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. ![]() |
#44
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Please read the sticky here - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=904677
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[Carol Ann voice]The Legislature is baaa-ack .... [/Carol Ann voice] There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. ![]() |
#45
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- executed before it crosses into CA OR - accomplished by an FFL with the correct permit (LC Mag) before delivery to the consumer then, yes.
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[Carol Ann voice]The Legislature is baaa-ack .... [/Carol Ann voice] There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. ![]() |
#46
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First post, item 4 Quote:
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[Carol Ann voice]The Legislature is baaa-ack .... [/Carol Ann voice] There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. ![]() |
#47
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No, your eyes are not deceiving you - a couple hundred posts are gone.
Those were principally discussing the formerly legal behaviors with parts kits; since 2014, possession and continued use to repair existing LCMs (or other magazines), or to convert to 10-round mags, is about all that remains.
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[Carol Ann voice]The Legislature is baaa-ack .... [/Carol Ann voice] There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. ![]() |
#48
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Up for rent... |
#49
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http://www.magazineblocks.com/magent...d-and-xdm.html |
#50
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As far as the law goes, how can I prove that I received it blocked? Thanks |
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As long as it's permanently blocked, you are good. You don't need to prove anything, though. If it makes you feel better have him write you a receipt. Burden of proof is on the state to prove you received it unblocked.
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#52
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What defines a parts kit? If I buy a polish ak magazine body, and have it shipped to my home in california with the floor plate, follower, and spring in a different package, would this still be considered a kit? Note that I am not trying to build a new magazine, rather repair an old ak mag that has a dent in the body, and will not allow the follower to pass said dent.
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#53
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=904677 I certainly would not do what you are proposing, but I don't like jail.
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My posts may contain general information related to the law, however, THEY ARE NOT LEGAL ADVICE AND I AM NOT A LAWYER. I recommend you consult a lawyer if you want legal advice. No attorney-client or confidential relationship exists or will be formed between myself and any other person on the basis of these posts. Pronouns I may use (such as "you" and "your") do NOT refer to any particular person under any circumstance. |
#55
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Exactly.
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My posts may contain general information related to the law, however, THEY ARE NOT LEGAL ADVICE AND I AM NOT A LAWYER. I recommend you consult a lawyer if you want legal advice. No attorney-client or confidential relationship exists or will be formed between myself and any other person on the basis of these posts. Pronouns I may use (such as "you" and "your") do NOT refer to any particular person under any circumstance. |
#56
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Up for rent... |
#57
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Fixed the wiki - now says
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[Carol Ann voice]The Legislature is baaa-ack .... [/Carol Ann voice] There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. ![]() |
#58
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Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
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#59
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What would be the legality of ordering normal capacity magazines from an online seller, having them shipped directly to an out-of-state location to be blocked, then shipping/bringing them back to Kalifornia? Would this be legal? And if so, does anyone know of a shop or business that would provide a service like this?
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#60
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[Carol Ann voice]The Legislature is baaa-ack .... [/Carol Ann voice] There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. ![]() |
#61
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So here is my question; and you will have to forgive what is perhaps my ignorance (I am new to all of this), but I, having read all of the posts in this thread up until this point, including the first post and the wiki, have not seen asked or answered the following question:
Assuming that sometime at least 3 years ago (given the 3 year statute of limitations), perhaps 5 years or maybe 10 years ago but after 2000 (which would make them legal so long as they were possessed in California at the time), an individual imported, manufactured, received, purchased, etc., either intentionally or unintentionally, a "large-capacity magazine", and given that- Quote:
Or perhaps I'm completely misunderstanding how this works..? Please don't misconsrue this question to be encouraging or condoning the breaking of the law in any way, but take it for what it is, an attempt to more perfectly understand a grievously imperfect law. Last edited by SNBI; 06-05-2014 at 3:29 PM.. |
#63
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Quick question, but first a scenario. I have a Glock 20 that I bought in '93 came with 2 15 rnd mags. I know I can legally own them and use them to this day. I even purchased 5 more mags, albeit at black market prices, after 1994 but before 2000.
I'm considering buying a Glock 29. It will accept G20 mags. Would it be legal to use the 15 round mags in it if I so chose? I don't see any practical reason for it, just curious. |
#64
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There is no PC that I'm aware of that would prohibit this. The mags themselves are regulated not the guns you use them in (assuming it doesn't have a BB). Matter of fact Glock mags are only stamped with caliber and capacity not model number, and we're originally designed to be interchangeable with different models anyways. I don't see how this would be any different then using grandfathered AR mags in a featureless different brand or non AR rifle Sig, IMI, etc... ![]()
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"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him?" Thomas Jefferson NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member |
#65
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[Carol Ann voice]The Legislature is baaa-ack .... [/Carol Ann voice] There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. ![]() Last edited by Librarian; 05-18-2017 at 11:27 PM.. |
#68
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Bodies, perhaps? We don't know what is the minimum to satisfy the definition of an illegal 'conversion kit'.
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[Carol Ann voice]The Legislature is baaa-ack .... [/Carol Ann voice] There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners. The details only count after the Governor signs the bills. Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. ![]() |
#69
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Parts that are the same for 10s, 15s, 20s, 30s, etc. should be fine. Parts specific to >10 I agree are a grey area. I personally would bring in complete 10/30s or nothing and even then, discretion and silence.
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#70
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Section 32311. "(b) For purposes of this section, a "large capacity magazine conversion kit" is a device or combination of parts of a fully functioning large-capacity magazine, including, but not limited to, the body spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine." Although poorly stated, a +10 magazine body is "capable of converting an ammunition feeding device into a large-capacity magazine." Importing one could be easily defined by the DOJ/AG/DA as manufacturing a large capacity magazine where none previously existed prior to January 1, 2000. See section 32310 - the original large capacity mag ban law: "(b) For purposes of this section, "manufacturing" includes both fabricating a magazine and assembling a magazine from a combination of parts, including, but not limited to, the body, spring, follower, and floor plate or end plate, to be a fully functioning large-capacity magazine." There is plenty of room for interpretation in both Sections 32310 and 32311 for the state to make a case. Importing an unblocked "large capacity" magazine body could open up a legal can of worms.
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#72
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When I refer to my high capacity magazines that I possessed in California prior to 1-1-2000, people on other (non-Calguns) forums keep quoting the law that didn't pass banning high capacity mags, even if previously grandfathered in. My understanding is that that provision did not pass, because it hinged on another law that the Governor vetoed.
My understanding is that I can keep and use the mags I actually had in California prior to 1-1-2000 (in featureless weapons). all actually go back to the 1970s/1980s/1990s when I was LEO. |
#73
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First post covers your question. The provision you mention didn't pass and isn't law. But due to FUD, legal conduct and prudent conduct don't always intersect. I don't use LCMs around common areas on ranges because of how many idiots there are that not only don't know the law, but are just itching to rat out a fellow gun owner.
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#74
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#75
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People are accustomed enough to limited mags that even the fuddy duddies don't whine about them anymore. But there is always that tool counting your shots to see if it is really just 10...
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#76
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FYI- a 10/30 is a 30 round magazine that has been limited to only holding 10 rounds!
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#77
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Could dig out an answer, so I'll ask. Sorry if dupe.
Could you send a 10+ magazine to your CA FFL who can LEGALLY receive it, and send him a magazine block that will block down to 10 rounds and have him create a 10 round magazine for you? I think the sticky question is that if YOU bought the magazine and YOU are no the FFL, even if the magazine will ONLY be received LEGALLY by the licensed FFL ... are you the "importer" since you caused the magazine to be imported into CA? At no time would any non-licensed-to-receive-a-high-capacity-magazine person have the magazine. So straight from out of state to a legally licensed FFL (licensed to receive high caps), then a 10 rounder from him to you?
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#78
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I think you could buy mag blocks ahead of time, then travel to AZ or NV buy 30 rounders and convert them prior to returning to CA. but only if you were going to that other state for another reason, otherwise your better off ordering 10/30's online! ...and I doubt you'd save any significant amount of cash!
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#79
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There is a hi-cap permit separate from the CA-FFL that a dealer has to have. There are still in state dealers doing in house conversions, and there are still out of state dealers shipping 10/30's.
Other option as mentioned is pre-order limiters, and add an errand to your next vacation out of state. The nuances are tedious, but I'd argue that anything from permanently modifying (ie, glue that is as strong or stronger than the material, or riveting), to part swapping (swap floor plate for integrated limiter and ditch the floor plates so that you are not returning with anything that could be assembled into a >10 round magazine so neither kit nor permanent modification clauses are triggered) covers the letter of the law, and your silence avoids "imperial entanglements" to begin with.
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#80
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Hmmmm... I didn't know that! But I've only seen prepackaged 10/30's for sale locally, and see them online all the time.
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