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  #201  
Old 11-18-2011, 3:22 PM
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Even more productive is to check your local community chapter, show up at an event or two and meet some people to find a way to get involved and volunteer with CalGuns Foundation's efforts to fight BS like this here in California. Also, consider taking the Pistolero Challenge (link in my signature), CGF doesn't print money to pay for the litigation on these cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
so now the STATE is ripping us off. this is bull$h1t. this is another case of a state regulatory agency overstepping the law so they can bolster the state's coffers. this makes me mad.

where are the attornies here? this has GOT to be illegal or unconstitutional or agains tsome interstate free trade laws?

the FFL that transfers here in CA di not sell the gun nor did they accept money for it. so next time I order tires from the tire rack and take them to get mounted at the tire store will the tire store collect the tax.

I am ready to join the TEA party now. Taxed Enough ALready !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #202  
Old 11-18-2011, 3:55 PM
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no - not an attorney -thats why I asked where they are.

IMO the transfer between me and the seller out of state is when they recieve my money in THIER state and place my itme that I now won in the mailbox in THIER state. the tranfer that heppens in CAL is only due to the federal interstate transfer laws and the 10 day wait. the CA dealer is a THIRD party merely handing me my handgun that I already paid for several weeks before.

I guess the State can now tax us for anything we buy over the internet upon reciept. they might as well have UPS and FEDEx collect the tax when they bring it to your door.
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  #203  
Old 11-18-2011, 4:05 PM
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The fact that the CA FFL has to deal with does change things. The state wants the money and the FFL is an easy target, it is just the way it is.
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  #204  
Old 11-18-2011, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
, it is just the way it is.
we the people need to stop taking it "just the way it is" and take back our state. its just plain wrong that a government agency makes up its own laws. the legislature should be doing this and not leave it up to bureaucrats.
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  #205  
Old 11-19-2011, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
we the people need to stop taking it "just the way it is" and take back our state. its just plain wrong that a government agency makes up its own laws. the legislature should be doing this and not leave it up to bureaucrats.
Then stop complaining to and about FFLs, who can't do anything other than follow the law, and do something about it.

Please show me proof that a government agency makes up its own laws. This is one area in which I have an issue. People make all these claims because they don't like something, but have no proof that it is actually the case. In some cases, the legislature creates laws which allow the agency to make rules and policy, which means that the agency is not making up the law, but following it.

None of this is new either, but suddenly the laws are being enforced in a wider effort and people act like it is new.
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  #206  
Old 11-19-2011, 1:24 PM
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the legislature creates laws which allow the agency to make rules and policy

this is what I mean - I am just ranting. unfortunatley the legislature leaves too much leeway to the agencies. I have seen it with AQMD developing thier own policies and citing businesses for it. I sat on a trail in Fed court involvoing the import of airplanes parts. the key to the prosecution was a federal policy. a few of us on the jury were smart enough to figure this out and it was deadlocked. yet the government was rying to send someone to prison based on a policy. after the DA asked us why we werent convined and we mentione the policy. he said, oh yeah, the judge would not allow the actual policy in as evidence but the prosecuted anyways, it was a hung jury.
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  #207  
Old 11-19-2011, 9:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
no - not an attorney -thats why I asked where they are.

IMO the transfer between me and the seller out of state is when they recieve my money in THIER state and place my itme that I now won in the mailbox in THIER state. the tranfer that heppens in CAL is only due to the federal interstate transfer laws and the 10 day wait. the CA dealer is a THIRD party merely handing me my handgun that I already paid for several weeks before.

I guess the State can now tax us for anything we buy over the internet upon reciept. they might as well have UPS and FEDEx collect the tax when they bring it to your door.
You are supposed to report internet purchases... and UPS/Fedex etc. collect fees when delivering from overseas.
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  #208  
Old 11-20-2011, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cyc Wid It View Post
You are supposed to report internet purchases... and UPS/Fedex etc. collect fees when delivering from overseas.
yes on your tax forms. but not to an intermediate agent.
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  #209  
Old 11-20-2011, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
yes on your tax forms. but not to an intermediate agent.
Yes, but the FFL is required to collect the sales tax. So are you suggesting that the FFL should not do what they are required to do?

Also, it is important to understand that paying for an item does not mean that you legally own it. A vehicle is an easy example since if you don't fill out the forms (which varies depending who you are since dealers are different), you don't really own the vehicle even if you paid for it. You can prove, with the paperwork, that you have money invested in the vehicle, but you would not be able to report the vehicle stolen as you are not the registered owner. There are certain requirements for the transfer of a firearm.
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  #210  
Old 11-20-2011, 5:39 PM
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Can the HK P7M13 be brought in as SSE if conversion kit is available? and mag send in as parts kit. Thanks
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  #211  
Old 11-20-2011, 6:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seainc View Post
Can the HK P7M13 be brought in as SSE if conversion kit is available? and mag send in as parts kit. Thanks
Anything that's not an AW can be exempted...
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  #212  
Old 11-20-2011, 7:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyc Wid It View Post
As before, any updates/additions/corrections/suggestions are welcome. I am not an employee nor am I affiliated with any FFL in any capacity other than customer. I will check this thread fairly regularly, or you can PM me.
This mini database is broken into sections, please use control+F with "Section X" to jump to the pertinent section (as of now, this seems to be the easiest way to navigate a long post):

Section 1- legal
Section 2- plain English explanation of the process
Section 3- 07 FFL's who are performing this process, and the capacity in which they are doing the conversions
Section 4- FFL's who are willing to transfer these items and their location/information
Section 5- out of state vendors who will NOT ship off-roster items to CA
FAQ in next post

Section 1: Legal

12133. (a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity
with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets
any of the following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or
relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of
Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and
barrel are assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and
barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for
importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions
of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18
of the United States Code.
(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six
inches and that has an overall length of at least 101/2 inches
when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

**note: anything not explicitly prohibited by the law is legal


Section 2: Explanation

- This conversion MUST be done by an 07 FFL, or can be done by a private party (unlikely for them to have the parts) prior to shipping.
*update* An 07 FFL is now no longer required for this process. If you can find an 01 FFL with the knowledge/willingness to do these conversions, you can. I will continue to update the list of shops who will perform this service.
- Depending on availability and specific shop policies, you may order from an FFL, transfer from Gunbroker, etc.
- This reversible conversion generally entails a replacement barrel of greater length and a mag lock (not revolvers). There are no permanent modifications to the gun.
- Keep in mind that certain guns, due to the nature of demand and or design, will be prohibitively expensive or not readily available to be converted.
- Either complete DROS at that 07 FFL or have it shipped to an FFL who is willing to accept guns in this format. Note, this may require a deposit on the parts from the 07FFL.
- Take possession of the gun after DROS.
- Return the gun to its original configuration (note, for guns with the magazine outside of the grip, a bullet button must be used, and you cannot use "normal capacity" magazines).


if you're interested in an explanation provided by a certified legal expert then read more here



Section 3: 07 FFL's and other shops doing this work

NorCal

Shop:
Tracy Rifle and Pistol
2726 Naglee Road
Tracy, CA 95304-7309
(209) 833-9100
Hours:
Mon-Sat 10 am - 7pm
Capacity: AR/AK/Mac 10, LCP, Glock Gen 4, Sig, HK45, HK P30, Kahr p380, 1911 .40/.45, xDm
Rate: contact the shop

Shop:
Wild Bill's Old West Trading Co.
10490 East Stockton Blvd, Ste 150
Elk Grove, CA 95624
(916) 686-7699
Hours: contact shop
Capacity: Gen 4 Glocks, LCP
Rate: contact shop

Bay Area

Shop:
Valkyrie Arms
1751 Houret Ct
Milpitas, CA 95035
(408) 957-0600
Hours:
Wed-Fri 5:30 pm - 10 pm
Sat 10 am - 8 pm
Sun 10 am - 6 pm
Capacity: AR/AK/Mac10, 1911 9mm/40/45, HK45, HK p30, Glock Gen 4, xDm, LCP, Sig, etc.
Rate: cost included for firearms purchased through Valkyrie Arms (MSRP), $50.00 for firearms not purchased through Valkyrie Arms
Shipping: yes


Central

Shop:
Breco Enterprises
1508 Tollhouse Road, Suite A
Clovis, CA 93611
(559) 322-1710
Hours: contact shop
Capacity: AR/AK/Draco
Rate: contact shop

Shop:
Cencal Guns
Visalia, CA
(559) 827-5131
Hours: contact shop
Capacity: contact shop
Rate: contact shop

Shop:
Spencer's Firearms
14402 Hwy 41
Madera, CA 93636
(559) 822-4369
Hours:
Tue-Fri 10am - 7pm
Sat 10am - 6pm
Capacity: 1911, Hi-Power, Glock Gen 4
Rate: contact shop

Shop:
PRK
5530 East Lamona Avenue
Fresno, CA 93727-2277
(559) 283-8666
Hours:
Tues-Thurs 10am - 5pm
Fri 10am - 6pm
Sat 10am - 4pm
Capacity: AR/AK/Mac 10, LCP, xDm, Glock Gen 4, 1911's. etc.
Rate: contact shop

SoCal

Shop:
Direct Action Solutions
722 Genevieve Street, Suite G
Solana Beach, CA 92075
(858) 436-7088
Hours:
Tues-Sat 10am - 6pm
Capacity: HK45, FNP-45, AR pistols, Draco pistols, 1911's
Rate: contact shop

Shop:
Get A Gun
12622 Knights Bridge Place
Bakersfield, CA 93312
(661) 978-6450
Hours: contact shop
Capacity: AR/AK pistols, LCP
Rate: contact shop

Shop:
Lock & Load Gunsmithing
1507 East Chestnut Avenue
Lompoc, CA 93436-4901
(805) 735-1500
Hours: contact the shop
Capacity: customer supplied conversion parts
Rate: contact the shop


Out of State

Shop:
New Frontier Armory
150 East Centennial Parkway
Suite 110
North Las Vegas, NV 89084-1337
(702) 479-1470
Hours: M, W, Th, F, Sa, Su 10am - 6pm
Capacity: contact shop
Rate: contact shop
Shipping: yes

Shop:
Table Rock Arms
4570 Table Rock Rd
Medford, OR 97502
(541) 702-6216
Hours: contact shop
Capacity: 1911, P30, Glock, xDm, FNP45, etc.
Rate: cost included for items ordered from Table Rock Arms (MSRP), $100 for firearms not purchased through Table Rock Arms
Shipping: yes
Deposit if shipped: cost of parts if not returned within 25 days



Section 4: Shops that are willing to accept transfers in this form

NorCal

California Handgun Exchange (Cottonwood)
Golden Bear Arms (El Dorado Hills)
Norse Armory (Woodland)
Placer Tactical (Lincoln)
Robert Marine (Eureka)
Roberts Gunsmithing and Police Supply (Folsom)

Bay Area

Eddy's Shooting Sports (Mountain View)
Kevin Smith (Martinez)
Republic of Northern Calif Armory (Oakley)
Rob Blank (Milpitas)
Santa Cruz Armory (Santa Cruz)

Central

JK Supply Co (Ione)
Mad River Arms (Riverbank)
Tenpercent Firearms (Taft)

SoCal

Bright Spot Pawn (Riverside)
EBR Works (Thousand Oaks)
Fort Courage Armory (Simi Valley)
Gusslers (Santee)
High Impact Tactical (Upland)
Insight Shooting Range (Cerritos)
MGM Tactical (Bakersfield)
OC Armory (Laguna Hills)
Parallax Tactical (San Diego)
Pennington Firearms (Wildomar)
Professional Armament Services (Anaheim)
Riflegear (Fountain Valley)
Straightline Tactical (Anaheim)


Section 5: Out of state vendors who will not ship off roster guns to CA

STI
Hi Please add me to list in Section 4 for SoCal
SWI Firearms (Santa Ana) http://www.swi-firearms.com
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  #213  
Old 11-20-2011, 9:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seainc View Post
Can the HK P7M13 be brought in as SSE if conversion kit is available? and mag send in as parts kit. Thanks
This might be a little more challenging over a conventional semi auto pistol. This gun has a fixed barrel similar to my P7M8 shown below.





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  #214  
Old 11-20-2011, 9:34 PM
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Yeah squeeze cockers are among the problematic ones due to design.
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  #215  
Old 11-20-2011, 10:15 PM
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Not sure if it's already in here, but Table Rock does M&Ps as well for SSE
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  #216  
Old 11-21-2011, 9:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emgee00 View Post
This might be a little more challenging over a conventional semi auto pistol. This gun has a fixed barrel similar to my P7M8 shown below.
Bummer then I'll get a HK45 or P30 instead. Thanks
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  #217  
Old 11-21-2011, 10:50 AM
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Anyone know of a 07-FFL in so. cal (Los Angeles County, Orange County, and San Bernardino County) willing to accept off roster gun and do the modifications necessary for SSE?
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  #218  
Old 11-21-2011, 1:24 PM
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OC Armory. http://www.ocarmory.com/


Quote:
Originally Posted by neomedic View Post
Anyone know of a 07-FFL in so. cal (Los Angeles County, Orange County, and San Bernardino County) willing to accept off roster gun and do the modifications necessary for SSE?
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  #219  
Old 11-21-2011, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by seainc View Post
Bummer then I'll get a HK45 or P30 instead. Thanks
The P7M8 can and has been done.
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  #220  
Old 11-25-2011, 1:36 AM
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Neomedic- I highly recommend oc armory. Got my hk p30 there. Mike and Patrick are awesome. I will probably get my next two or three guns from oc armory. I have a beretta u22 neos in mind...
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  #221  
Old 11-27-2011, 12:30 PM
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Question about buying an off roster frame and slide.

I want a caspian and I am in Cali. I have a single shot conversion for a 1911 and am wondering with buying a frame to do the SSE would it have to be a complete firing pistol or could it just be a frame with a single shot top end leaving me to complete the build with the fire control group?

Thanks in advance.
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  #222  
Old 11-27-2011, 1:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endofcomment View Post
Question about buying an off roster frame and slide.

I want a caspian and I am in Cali. I have a single shot conversion for a 1911 and am wondering with buying a frame to do the SSE would it have to be a complete firing pistol or could it just be a frame with a single shot top end leaving me to complete the build with the fire control group?

Thanks in advance.
it needs to be a complete functioning pistol.
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  #223  
Old 11-27-2011, 2:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ke6guj View Post
it needs to be a complete functioning pistol.
Thanks for the help and sorry of its a repeat.
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  #224  
Old 11-27-2011, 3:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endofcomment View Post
Question about buying an off roster frame and slide.

I want a caspian and I am in Cali. I have a single shot conversion for a 1911 and am wondering with buying a frame to do the SSE would it have to be a complete firing pistol or could it just be a frame with a single shot top end leaving me to complete the build with the fire control group?

Thanks in advance.
I've tried to go this route as well its cheaper to buy a frame and build it to your specs versus buying a whole gun and modifying it from there. But is the only way... Unless you have a seller that has one in the state, is the only way to buy a frame ... Why do you think cheaply priced frame only last a minute or 2 in the private sales forum...
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  #225  
Old 11-27-2011, 5:23 PM
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I have a few options. My brother lives out of state and my dad lives in state so an intrafamily transfer is available. Also I have the necessary parts to complete a pistol that came off my RIA so the fit should be sloppy enough to not require altering the frame.
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  #226  
Old 11-27-2011, 6:09 PM
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Intrafamilial transfer is probably the best and easiest way to get frames if your FFL understands how they work. Remember it will have to go through your dad first. Depending on your end goal/smith, you could have your smith build up the frame first into a completed pistol and then exempt the final product. Of course if you wanted to build it yourself/at a later date that's not viable.
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  #227  
Old 11-27-2011, 7:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyc Wid It View Post
Intrafamilial transfer is probably the best and easiest way to get frames if your FFL understands how they work. Remember it will have to go through your dad first. Depending on your end goal/smith, you could have your smith build up the frame first into a completed pistol and then exempt the final product. Of course if you wanted to build it yourself/at a later date that's not viable.
How would this work if the one ( your brother a non California Resident ) is out of state with the frame and your dad is here in California and is a resisdent... It would be intera-family transfer but the non resident wouldnt that be an issue ??? I always thought your brother would have to come here to do the paper work with you @ the FFL ( which could be a hassle)...
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  #228  
Old 11-27-2011, 7:57 PM
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Brother to father, father to you. Intrafamilial transfers are roster exempt and can occur between non-residents through an FFL.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...Family_Members
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  #229  
Old 11-27-2011, 10:16 PM
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Ok now just to convince my brother to play along... This might end up costing me a lot...
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  #230  
Old 12-06-2011, 11:07 AM
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So I tried a search but not sure what terms to look for. Where can I find a machine shop that will make the barrel/mag block for me? Or, where can I source the items to outright purchase? I need a 1911 setup, and a Sig P220 Setup?

Help or suggestions are appreciated!
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  #231  
Old 12-06-2011, 2:15 PM
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So I tried a search but not sure what terms to look for. Where can I find a machine shop that will make the barrel/mag block for me? Or, where can I source the items to outright purchase? I need a 1911 setup, and a Sig P220 Setup?

Help or suggestions are appreciated!
I have parts for the p220.

Ryan
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  #232  
Old 12-07-2011, 5:25 PM
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Does anyone make a single shot conversion for the beretta 96a1?

Ryan: any chance on you making one for the 96a1/92a1?
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  #233  
Old 12-07-2011, 9:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romeo26 View Post
Does anyone make a single shot conversion for the beretta 96a1?

Ryan: any chance on you making one for the 96a1/92a1?
I don't have the parts at this time. Send me an email to the address on my website as I still might be able to help you out with this.

Ryan
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  #234  
Old 12-08-2011, 1:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLW View Post
I don't have the parts at this time. Send me an email to the address on my website as I still might be able to help you out with this.

Ryan
thanks for the heads up Ryan!
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  #235  
Old 12-09-2011, 4:21 PM
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Another one in Jail thanx to Ryan @ www.tablerockarms.com

I have my wifey's xmas present @ straight line tactical ...

Thanx again Ryan for help me out with my STI Escort
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  #236  
Old 12-11-2011, 7:07 PM
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ryan is the man i have not dealt with him yet for SSE but wish i did, very helpful in PMS
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  #237  
Old 12-15-2011, 1:37 PM
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Ok i might have missed this somewhere and sorry if I did. But can I private party from out of state ship to an FFL 07 who then converts a handgun to SSE then DROS it to the private party buying the handgun?
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  #238  
Old 12-15-2011, 6:24 PM
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Yes.
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  #239  
Old 12-31-2011, 1:51 PM
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I just went through the faq, and I'm not sure this particular question has been answered. Is it possible to have a seller ship a gun that has been SSE-modded on their end and transfer it without needing the receiving FFL to perform any additional work?
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  #240  
Old 12-31-2011, 2:24 PM
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Yes, that is how it is normally done.
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