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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 01-10-2011, 5:38 PM
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Default ArchAngel stock for M1A

Looks like more stock options for the M1A shooters....



And it's only $299.


~dpc
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2011, 5:40 PM
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edit: nvm

Interesting. Looks like a ripoff of the JAE.
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2011, 5:53 PM
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Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post
edit: nvm

Interesting. Looks like a ripoff of the JAE.
what i was thinking
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2011, 5:55 PM
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yeah so its a plastic JAE at half the cost?
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Old 01-10-2011, 6:06 PM
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Yeah, definitely a JAE ripoff, but look at the grip... That looks lower than the top of the trigger to me. So you get a copy of someone else's hard work AND you need a fixed 10 round magazine. NICE.

Last edited by NoExpert; 01-10-2011 at 6:10 PM..
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Old 01-10-2011, 6:07 PM
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Nice price.
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Old 01-10-2011, 6:23 PM
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Yup, sure looks like a ripoff of the JAE-100 stock to me.



JAE Enterprises should be informed (and now they have been).
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2011, 6:24 PM
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I got to handle one back in September, me personally I wouldn't buy one, the finish looked nice enough but just not my cup of tea.
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Old 01-10-2011, 6:29 PM
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from what I have found online it is made by promag
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Old 01-10-2011, 9:44 PM
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Looks nicer than a JAE at half the cost. If it does the same thing, what's the problem? LOL!
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2011, 10:03 PM
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It DOESN'T do the same thing. That's the point.
The JAE Stock completely stabilizes your rifle in a very expensively made aluminum bedding system. This is a drop in plastic stock. It just rips off the major design cues of the JAE so people who want one that looks like it but don't care about performance (or the morality of buying a rip off) can get it cheap.

Here is the real deal --



The angle around the cheek piece, the palm shelf, the thumbwheel, location of the flush cups, the contour around the mag well -- even at a quick glance these are all directly ripped off to make people think they are getting a JAE stock -- We went over this before, but if you can't see how this is WRONG -- if Promag wanted to compete with JAE, they would have come up with an entirely NEW design, and if it was better or cheaper, people would buy it.

Also, as pointed out, the pistol grip on the Promag appears as if it is not compliant for CA and the stock telescopes, so that'a another baddie.

Last edited by X-NewYawker; 01-10-2011 at 10:06 PM..
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:06 PM
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God, that JAE looks good. AND makes your groups smaller and gives you rails to mount anything you want AND allows =you to use a scope without a lame strap on cheek piece.

AND on sale for the SHOT show.
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:07 PM
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It took the JAE people TEN YEARS or so to perfect this stock, and someone can buy one, make a mold off of it and sell a cheap knock off. This is the stuff about Chinese goods that makes us crazy.
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noonanda View Post
from what I have found online it is made by promag
Yuck, I don't see why promag would move into the market of making stocks when they can't even figure out how to make a magazine.
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  #15  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:35 AM
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Old thread but does anyone know if it California legal?
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:39 AM
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Old thread but does anyone know if it California legal?
Legal if you use a mag lock.
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:55 AM
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JAE went through the work and submitted their stock to the CA DOJ to get the approval and it has their blessing. The knock off does not appear to have the same grip configuration so I don't think it is CA legal by a long shot...
Kevin
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  #18  
Old 09-13-2011, 12:46 PM
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JAE went through the work and submitted their stock to the CA DOJ to get the approval and it has their blessing. The knock off does not appear to have the same grip configuration so I don't think it is CA legal by a long shot...
Kevin
It would be legal with a mag lock.
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  #19  
Old 09-13-2011, 2:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Sicarius View Post
JAE went through the work and submitted their stock to the CA DOJ to get the approval and it has their blessing. The knock off does not appear to have the same grip configuration so I don't think it is CA legal by a long shot...
Kevin
Would be legal for all the M1a RAWs in the State.
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  #20  
Old 09-13-2011, 2:55 PM
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Originally Posted by slomofo View Post
Yuck, I don't see why promag would move into the market of making stocks when they can't even figure out how to make a magazine.
They did a good job with the 10/22 target stock, and there extended mag release is better then a couple others out there : )
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  #21  
Old 09-13-2011, 8:44 PM
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Originally Posted by X-NewYawker View Post
It took the JAE people TEN YEARS or so to perfect this stock, and someone can buy one, make a mold off of it and sell a cheap knock off. This is the stuff about Chinese goods that makes us crazy.
strong racism brah

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Old 09-13-2011, 8:46 PM
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It might be racism but it is also correct.
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  #23  
Old 09-13-2011, 8:51 PM
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I purchased an archangel stock. I'm having my wife, who has been sculpting as a hobby for years, mold/add an insert that would raise the grip high enough to solve the legal issue. Can't give up detachable mags. No way. She bought me a socom ii two years ago and I had it sitting in the corner after being frustrated with the socom ii ergonomics. It was a present from her. I can't sell it or trade it. So, I bought this stock to improve the cheek weld. After taking it to the range I can say I am totally happy with my purchase. It feels and looks sexy in this stock. The accuracy improved, but I'm not sure if it was due to the stock or changing the socom front post to a scout national match. I changed them out at the same time.
I'll be working on the stock with my wife this weekend. I'll let you calgunners know how it goes if anyone's interested.
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  #24  
Old 09-13-2011, 9:02 PM
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Straight out of the Ca Doj website.

Pistol Grip, conspicuously protruding - A grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand
(between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while
firing.

With my hand wrapped around the stock the web of my trigger hand is 1/2" above the exposed portion of the trigger. Maybe those with real small hands would have an assault weapon and in mine not.
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Old 09-13-2011, 9:27 PM
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Exactly! I agree. The web of my hand is above the top of the exposed trigger when holding and firing using the archangel grip. Yes, I can place the web of my hand lower than the trigger, but that would be unnatural to hold it that low. I have big hands also. But I see the point where it states "allow" to hold it lower that makes it illegal. That's why I'm making an insert. Just to be safe.
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Last edited by ItchyTrigger; 09-13-2011 at 9:31 PM..
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Old 09-13-2011, 9:36 PM
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I could allow the use of my rifle to be done without a stock at all. Grasp it by the mag and just wiggle my finger in the trigger guard for the ultimate in bump firing. It definitely wouldn't be comfy or smart but could be possible "allow".
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper3142 View Post
It might be racism but it is also correct.
does anyone use reading comprehension anymore?

The stock is a copy. The stock is made by promag. Promag is proudly made in America, therefore, HURR DURR CHINA CHICOM COPY BAD FOR AMURRICCAN JERBS DERP DERP

I'm not even chinese but this attitude held by some calgun members is embarrassing
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Last edited by jonni; 09-14-2011 at 12:10 AM..
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  #28  
Old 09-14-2011, 12:31 PM
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Hello this is Mike Ballard from Archangel. I'm the Director of R&D here. While ProMag is our parent company, and I do help with development of some of the newer ProMag items, everything that gets an Archangel logo comes out of my department, and all aspects of it's construction, materials, and design are specified by me.

You can see me showing off some of the Archangel products here.

http://www.youtube.com/archangeldevelopment

I have been in the shooting industry for over 20 years. I've designed products for Hogue, Knoxx/Blackhawk and others. I'm a competitive shooter, and every design I have ever produced has been done with the shooter in mind. In fact, every product I've designed is done so in the same way I would want to have it if I were going to be buying it myself. The last stock I designed for Knoxx before I left there was the Axiom for both the bolt guns and the Ruger 10/22. It won the 2008 NRA Golden Bullseye award for product accessory of the year.

The M1A Precision stock was 100% designed by me, and is manufactured in USA. The material used to mold the stock is 100% USA as well. The polymer is a Dupont Zytel based blend that is impact modified, infused with carbon fiber fill, and has been developed through extensive destructive testing to be extremely light weight, super durable, and thermally/dimensionally stable. Though I am biased being the designer of the stock, I find it to be the most comfortable, accurate, and lightweight stock for the M1A that I've ever shot.

For the people who keep saying that I simply knocked off the JAE stock...

I must say, I like the JAE stock. I like a gooseneck style buttstock. I like adjustability. It's a solid platform, and there will be people who find the JAE the stock for them and their particular use. But there is a lot that I don't like about their design too. This is where I have departed from the JAE design fully and completely. When I was given the go ahead for a new M1A stock, I was also given the ok to do whatever I wanted. First off, I didn't like the weight of the JAE. It was FAR to heavy. I didn't like that you had to remove the cheek riser to get to your iron sights. I certainly didn't like the $1800 price tag. I don't like the thermally unstable nature of aluminum. I don't like the fact that you need tools to remove the action from the stock in the field. I didn't like the feel of the grip in my hand. I didn't like that the length of pull must be adjusted with tools with the removal of or addition of plates. The patented "tension" adjustment is difficult to adjust for accuracy, and took me a long time to get it dialed into sub MOA accuracy. It needed to be readjusted when the action was removed from the stock. I didn't like that there was no storage area anywhere on the stock.

The Archangel M1A Precision stock was computer designed to use limited material where strength wasn't needed, and extra material where it would be required to keep the stock rigid and tough. The AAM1A stock has achieved 3 POUNDS of weight reduction from our friendly competitor. The grip area has been designed to be much more ergonomic and place the pad of your finger (or at least mine) right where it should be on the trigger. In fact, if you look carefully at the side profile of the stock, you will notice that it's COMPLETELY different. From the shape of the grip, the off hand hook under the cheek adjuster, and the included rail cover for the forend that puts an ergonomic palm rest right where it's comfortable. There is grip storage that can house a broken case extractor and a bore snake. The cheek riser can adjust quickly to iron sight height should you use a scope with a see through mount, rings, or a quick release lever. The length of pull can be adjusted by click so you can adjust for different shooters at the range easily. There are no tools required to remove the action in the field. There is a molded in 6 o'clock rail to be utilized for vertical grips, bi-pods, lights, or designators. It's got molded in QD sling swivel attachments on both sides, and it also features conventional sling swivel studs. The stock has been designed to automatically tension fit the action, we are getting sub MOA accuracy with stock barrels, NM sights, and Black Hills ammo.... And it has an MSRP of only $299.

As far as the web of hand thing goes, if I hang my hand off the side of a traditional riflestock grip area, I can get the web of my hand below where the trigger exits the stock and can still fire it... Does this make all riflestocks have a "conspicuous pistol grip"? I don't think the M1A Precision would be considered a conspicuous pistol grip, because it does not protrude like a pistol, and you can't grip it from the bottom... When you place your hand on the grip, the web of your hand is clearly higher than where the trigger exits the stock. It's a gooseneck not a pistol grip! There is also the "collapseable stock" issue as well. But considering that the M1A precision is 1/2" longer length of pull than the original stock in it's shortest adjustment, it's hardly a "colapseable stock" But I'm no lawyer, and we have not had a ruling from anyone of any authority yet. The moddled bridge piece mentioned in a post above and pinning the length of pull (or a bullet button BLECH!) is the safest bet until we know more. I will keep you posted.


Best Regards,

Mike Ballard
Director of Research & Development
Archangel Manufacturing
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Old 09-14-2011, 1:23 PM
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Well that should shut some people up....
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Old 09-14-2011, 2:26 PM
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From my understanding, having detachable mags with a folding or telescoping stock is illegal. Is a stock with click adjustable lop considered a telescoping stock? Or is it just being adjustable period, that makes it illegal with detachables. Is it necessary to have the lop fixed?
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Old 09-14-2011, 3:23 PM
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Who cares^^^^^

Im wondering where all the people talking smack are? THis was getting juicy...then the owner came in and owned them. lol.
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Old 09-14-2011, 3:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchangelDevelopment View Post
As far as the web of hand thing goes, if I hang my hand off the side of a traditional riflestock grip area, I can get the web of my hand below where the trigger exits the stock and can still fire it... Does this make all riflestocks have a "conspicuous pistol grip"? I don't think the M1A Precision would be considered a conspicuous pistol grip, because it does not protrude like a pistol, and you can't grip it from the bottom... When you place your hand on the grip, the web of your hand is clearly higher than where the trigger exits the stock. It's a gooseneck not a pistol grip! There is also the "collapseable stock" issue as well. But considering that the M1A precision is 1/2" longer length of pull than the original stock in it's shortest adjustment, it's hardly a "colapseable stock" But I'm no lawyer, and we have not had a ruling from anyone of any authority yet. The moddled bridge piece mentioned in a post above and pinning the length of pull (or a bullet button BLECH!) is the safest bet until we know more. I will keep you posted.


Best Regards,

Mike Ballard
Director of Research & Development
Archangel Manufacturing
I have the Archangel stock as well (picked up from a local Turners) and love it. This puts my mind a little bit more at ease, but I will also be looking into some kind of grip molding "just in case."
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Old 09-14-2011, 3:50 PM
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I might have to check one out now.....8-)
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Old 09-14-2011, 3:53 PM
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I just ordered one! looks sweet and JAE is 6 months behind!
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Old 09-14-2011, 6:08 PM
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Sighted in my scope today and was pleased with the final results. Will be taking it to a 300yd range this weekend.

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Old 09-14-2011, 6:19 PM
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Sighted in my scope today and was pleased with the final results. Will be taking it to a 300yd range this weekend.

If you don't work on Monday morning or Friday mornings go to Pala and test that baby out.

http://ncsapala.com/
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Old 09-14-2011, 6:21 PM
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I recently got a membership to South Bay Rod and Gun Club
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Old 09-14-2011, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchangelDevelopment View Post
Hello this is Mike Ballard from Archangel.
Wow, didn't see that coming! Right on!
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:05 PM
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FWIW,

Archangel review on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlblJ...eature=related
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:23 PM
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Sniper3142 Sniper3142 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchangelDevelopment View Post
Hello this is Mike Ballard from Archangel...
A couple of things.

Congratulations coming forward in this thread.

It sounds like you are saying your ArchAngel stock is better than the JAE. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't.

But one thing it is NOT is original.

Only a fool or a blind person would fail to see that your stock is a copy of the JAE, in appearance if not in construction. I'm curious as to why you'd copy the appearance of a stock with so many "flaws".

You mention with pride that this stock is American made. American products (in my mind) stand for many things. Quality, Pride in craftsmanship, Reliability, and Originality. Guess which one your stock is probably lacking.

Regarding use of this stock on a featureless build...

Have you submitted it to the CADOJ or received anything in writing from any California agency stating its legality in that configuration, like the folks at JAE did?

I remember the JAE stock when it was just a prototype sitting on the counter at ARM U.S.A. The people behind it put a LOT of hard work and effort into making it the excellent product it is today.

They say that imitation is the highest form of flattery. If that is true, then the good folks over at JAE should feel honored.
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Last edited by Sniper3142; 09-14-2011 at 10:25 PM..
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