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  #1  
Old 01-05-2011, 9:57 PM
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Default AB-962 Businesses who have cut off California

With the February 2011 implementation of AB962 all sellers of handgun ammunition will be required to follow new regulations, these will prohibit the mail/catalog/internet ordering of handgun ammunition. This post is intended to keep track of the policies of vendors so that we can easily determine which companies have cut us off completely, or only cut off the handgun ammunition as required by the new law. The list will be updated as more companies announce their policies. Make your own judgments about where you wish to spend your money.

For a list of companies who will ship to California please see: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=378054

Will not ship reloading components to California:
Dillon (Bullets (projectiles))
Palmetto State Armory
Cheaper Than Dirt


Will not ship any ammunition to California
Cheaper Than Dirt
Palmetto State Armory
Dillon
MidwayUSA


Will not ship handgun ammunition to California (meets the law but does not un-necessarily restrict other products)
Cabela's
Glen's Outdoors
SGAMMO

WILL SHIP TO CALIFORNIA!!
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Last edited by Rock6.3; 01-06-2011 at 8:22 AM.. Reason: update and clarify
  #2  
Old 01-05-2011, 10:22 PM
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Add Cheaper Than Dirt to the reloading components list, according to their sales rep they will cease shipping any reloading components to California as well. Not sure if this is the universal case or just the person i talked to.
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:35 PM
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More like which businesses got cut off by da beel
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:40 PM
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cabelas new catalog says they wont ship ammo after the 21st of Jan.
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veggie View Post
cabelas new catalog says they wont ship ammo after the 21st of Jan.
Ammo, or Handgun Ammo? The scan I saw specified Handgun Ammo. What does your say?
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:06 PM
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Looked at mine. it says "handgun ammo", but on the reverse side, I saw 7.62x39 and .223 both listed under "Act Now, order must be placed by blah blah..."
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:15 PM
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What about places that honor C&R + COE?
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:25 PM
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I can't believe Dillon won't ship components???
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:34 PM
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Dillon? W. T. F?
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  #10  
Old 01-05-2011, 11:41 PM
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This is in another thread - but I wanted to post here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=379941

Called Dillon and had a good chat with one of the help line guys. Dillon will not ship any reloading components nor ammunition to California until all of the nuances regarding AB 962 are understood. He said vendors are nervous that due to the litigious reputation California has; they will not take any chances. My remark to that was if Dillon was sued by the State Attorney General of CA - there would be a ground swell of support for Dillon and hopefully common sense will prevail regarding AB 962. There you go. The rest of the country is of the opinion this is yet another litigious quagmire created by the State of Califoria. Instead of dealing with criminals correcty; laws are made to turn citizens into criminals.

Something I forgot as well - it was also mentioned that if CA Attny Gen sued an out-of-state company, there is fear the Fed will get involved and allegedly the belief is the Fed has a lot of funds to burn through to fight the issue - and that is what really has vendors scared.
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  #11  
Old 01-06-2011, 1:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwest View Post
This is in another thread - but I wanted to post here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=379941

Called Dillon and had a good chat with one of the help line guys. Dillon will not ship any reloading components nor ammunition to California until all of the nuances regarding AB 962 are understood. He said vendors are nervous that due to the litigious reputation California has; they will not take any chances. My remark to that was if Dillon was sued by the State Attorney General of CA - there would be a ground swell of support for Dillon and hopefully common sense will prevail regarding AB 962. There you go. The rest of the country is of the opinion this is yet another litigious quagmire created by the State of Califoria. Instead of dealing with criminals correcty; laws are made to turn citizens into criminals.

Something I forgot as well - it was also mentioned that if CA Attny Gen sued an out-of-state company, there is fear the Fed will get involved and allegedly the belief is the Fed has a lot of funds to burn through to fight the issue - and that is what really has vendors scared.
I can see a small company not wanted to play with fire, but a large company like Dillon or Cabela's can surely help make an example of the state. Not to mention, they are all protected with Insurance policies....
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Old 01-06-2011, 6:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
What about places that will or will not honor C&R + COE?
Post the information and I will update the top post.

(text in red was added by me)
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  #13  
Old 01-06-2011, 6:43 AM
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I thought CTD was supporting us in this fight? Was going to place an order next Friday lumped in with other people to save on shipping.

Guess I'll go through another vendor now. No hard feelings given how crappy CA is to deal with.
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Old 01-06-2011, 6:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAGunner View Post
Looked at mine. it says "handgun ammo", but on the reverse side, I saw 7.62x39 and .223 both listed under "Act Now, order must be placed by blah blah..."
I saw this too, they are saying order .223 and 7.62x39 before AB962 takes place so I called to clarify. The person I spoke to said they don't know what ammo will ship after Jan. 21st.

Basically it sounded like because of the vague nature of the law they won't ship anything other than shotgun ammo.
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Old 01-06-2011, 7:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwest View Post
This is in another thread - but I wanted to post here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=379941

Called Dillon and had a good chat with one of the help line guys. Dillon will not ship any reloading components nor ammunition to California until all of the nuances regarding AB 962 are understood. He said vendors are nervous that due to the litigious reputation California has; they will not take any chances. My remark to that was if Dillon was sued by the State Attorney General of CA - there would be a ground swell of support for Dillon and hopefully common sense will prevail regarding AB 962. There you go. The rest of the country is of the opinion this is yet another litigious quagmire created by the State of Califoria. Instead of dealing with criminals correcty; laws are made to turn citizens into criminals.

Something I forgot as well - it was also mentioned that if CA Attny Gen sued an out-of-state company, there is fear the Fed will get involved and allegedly the belief is the Fed has a lot of funds to burn through to fight the issue - and that is what really has vendors scared.
According to Dillon at 8:05 am PST today Dillon will no longer ship the following after Jan 31, 2011

Loaded ammunition
Bullets (projectiles)
Magazines
Speed loaders
Clips to hold ammo.

They WILL continue to ship

Primers
Brass
Reloading machines and accessories
Anything else not mentioned in "Will not ship"

Last edited by Desert Dude; 01-06-2011 at 7:08 AM.. Reason: spelling
  #16  
Old 01-06-2011, 7:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voiceofreason View Post
I thought CTD was supporting us in this fight? Was going to place an order next Friday lumped in with other people to save on shipping.

Guess I'll go through another vendor now. No hard feelings given how crappy CA is to deal with.
That's what they wanted people to believe by the thread they started earlier (forget if it's this area or another), but it's purely lip service and an attempt to soothe feathers and continue to reap in money from CA while letting CA shooters hang out to dry.

I am going to ink out my name and other identifying info their catalogs, marking 'return to sender', and dropping them in a mailbox. Let them pay postage both ways and not get another dime from me.

Cabela's, CTD have made the list. Ironically both catalogs came this week. Wher'e my sharpie?
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Old 01-06-2011, 7:21 AM
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Add Glen's Outdoors online store for handgun ammo.
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Old 01-06-2011, 7:30 AM
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Keep 'em coming, list is updated
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Old 01-06-2011, 7:34 AM
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Default C&R and COE

Quote:
Originally Posted by aermotor View Post
What about places that honor C&R + COE?
Your answer is here in a thread down in the Ammo section. Short answer is lots of places will ship rifle AND handgun ammo to folks here who have both a C&R and COE on file with them. I'll be steering ALL my business to these retailers.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=378054
  #20  
Old 01-06-2011, 7:38 AM
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How about another thread about those who WILL continue to ship to CA?
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  #21  
Old 01-06-2011, 7:52 AM
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I wonder if the damages are legally "ripe" yet? I mean we have companies telling us they will not ship ammo so that seems like damages right?
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Old 01-06-2011, 7:52 AM
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Default Ammo

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Originally Posted by NoJoke View Post
How about another thread about those who WILL continue to ship to CA?
See my post above. There is a thread down in the Ammo section where they are tracking this.
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Old 01-06-2011, 7:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Dude View Post
According to Dillon at 8:05 am PST today Dillon will no longer ship the following after Jan 31, 2011

Loaded ammunition
Bullets (projectiles)
Magazines
Speed loaders
Clips to hold ammo.

They WILL continue to ship

Primers
Brass
Reloading machines and accessories
Anything else not mentioned in "Will not ship"


WTF is Dillion thinking. Bullets (projectiles), magazines, speed loaders, and clips to hold ammo is not what is prohibited. This pertains to Penal Code 12316 which states, "Sale of ammunition or reloaded ammunition to a minor; defense; possession of ammunition by persons prohibited from possessing a firearm and school grounds. This Penal Code is already in the books. It was not added in AB 962. It looks like the vendors are going overboard.

I talked to Montana Gold yesterday and there reply was they know about the law and they are still shipping into California.
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Old 01-06-2011, 7:58 AM
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I'm starting to get the feeling Cabelas is using this as a marketing ploy to get a good sale together. But in Cabelas defense, they do have outlet stores here in CA that could be effected by snubbing their nose at CA law, but out of state vendors do not have that excuse.

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Old 01-06-2011, 8:03 AM
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Top post in this thread has been updated to include a link to the Calguns discussion about companies who WILL ship to California.
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Old 01-06-2011, 8:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabagley View Post
Dillon? W. T. F?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SikDMAX View Post
I can't believe Dillon won't ship components???

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwest View Post
This is in another thread - but I wanted to post here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=379941

Called Dillon and had a good chat with one of the help line guys. Dillon will not ship any reloading components nor ammunition to California until all of the nuances regarding AB 962 are understood. He said vendors are nervous that due to the litigious reputation California has; they will not take any chances. My remark to that was if Dillon was sued by the State Attorney General of CA - there would be a ground swell of support for Dillon and hopefully common sense will prevail regarding AB 962. There you go. The rest of the country is of the opinion this is yet another litigious quagmire created by the State of Califoria. Instead of dealing with criminals correcty; laws are made to turn citizens into criminals.

Something I forgot as well - it was also mentioned that if CA Attny Gen sued an out-of-state company, there is fear the Fed will get involved and allegedly the belief is the Fed has a lot of funds to burn through to fight the issue - and that is what really has vendors scared.
If Dillion REALLY has any concern about the Feds getting involved (I personally don't see where the Feds have the resources or the jurisdiction to do that) keep in mind that Dillon Aero makes WAY more money from the Feds than Dillion Precision does from us. I could totally understand corporate management not wanting to tickle the tiger if they had any concerns about that.
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Old 01-06-2011, 8:12 AM
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Look at how well scare tactics work! Who will be the one to clarify what is handgun ammo? and when? I think more companies will open the doors once this is clarified.
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Old 01-06-2011, 8:18 AM
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I dont know where the good guys are posted but these are cool I emailed several and so far these are shipping to calif.( all but handgun of course)

SGAMMO will ship all but handgun ammo
AMMUNITIONTOGO will ship all but handgun ammo
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Last edited by biker777; 01-06-2011 at 8:21 AM..
  #29  
Old 01-06-2011, 8:23 AM
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Just dropped $1200 to sgammo during xmas time as a gift to myself.

guess i will just have to drive to NV and AZ shows to buy ammo and what not. but it might be good to start reloading. if you can get components.

F*CK this state, its time to get out i think
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Old 01-06-2011, 8:34 AM
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palmetto state replied to a email i sent:

Quote:
We are aware of the exemptions, and will work with those people. The position we are taking is not necessarily a permanent one. Once California lists exactly what they deem as handgun vs rifle ammunition, we can then change our policy.



Thank you,
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Old 01-06-2011, 8:41 AM
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ammoman won't ship after 21st pending legal consultation. C&R or not.

J&G is good to go with C&R + COE
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Old 01-06-2011, 8:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
ammoman won't ship after 21st pending legal consultation. C&R or not.
Pistol or Rifle?
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Old 01-06-2011, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANDREWMENDEZ View Post
I can see a small company not wanted to play with fire, but a large company like Dillon or Cabela's can surely help make an example of the state. Not to mention, they are all protected with Insurance policies....
I'm not sure that an insurance policy would help them if the PRK decided to make an example of the company. Most insurance policies cover accidental actions, not willful actions.

As an example, my medical malpractice covers me on defense costs and payments to the limit of the policy, but if I willfully injure a patient it leaves me hanging out to dry.

As an example check "Tony Shiu" from Danville. He was a local doc who was sexually abusing patients, and even made America's Most Wanted for doing so. His malpractice carry doesn't have to assist in his malpractice cases for his actions. He's on his own.
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Old 01-06-2011, 9:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHIEFone View Post
Just dropped $1200 to sgammo during xmas time as a gift to myself.

guess i will just have to drive to NV and AZ shows to buy ammo and what not. but it might be good to start reloading. if you can get components.

F*CK this state, its time to get out i think
Will gun shows have a problem complying with 962? I thought that the issue was going to be that internet sales meant difficulty proving that the person buying and the person receiving were who they purported to be?

A gun show transaction is still a face to face sale. It shouldn't be that difficult to get a fingerprint scanner and record book for these transactions. I'd assume that CA gun shows might be good to go after Feb?
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
Will gun shows have a problem complying with 962? I thought that the issue was going to be that internet sales meant difficulty proving that the person buying and the person receiving were who they purported to be?

A gun show transaction is still a face to face sale. It shouldn't be that difficult to get a fingerprint scanner and record book for these transactions. I'd assume that CA gun shows might be good to go after Feb?
I am sure gun shows in CA will have issues since its a CA only law as i understand it. So a drive out of state for ammo purchases should be fine.

i personally wont be making ammo purchases with the new law and finger print. i dont need the FUDS knocking on my door cause some caliber i bought was used in a crime! its BS law i think designed to eventually wipe out gun and ammo sales in CA. IMO
  #36  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:33 AM
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I thought the "right people" were going to make this (AB 962) go away. What changed?
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtDinosaur View Post
I thought the "right people" were going to make this (AB 962) go away. What changed?
Well?
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:00 AM
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Midway is on the other list as willing to ship rifle ammo but this thread states no ammo???
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyStorm82 View Post
Midway is on the other list as willing to ship rifle ammo but this thread states no ammo???
Looks like midway's position needs to be clarified
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infamous209 View Post
Look at how well scare tactics work! Who will be the one to clarify what is handgun ammo? and when? I think more companies will open the doors once this is clarified.
The Attorney General, Kamala Harris.

Why do I suspect the California Assiciation of Firearms Retailers is/was behind AB962 all the way?????
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