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Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

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  #1  
Old 01-02-2011, 1:44 PM
mnh327 mnh327 is offline
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Default Calling all Phoenix HP22a owners

My understanding is that you're never supposed to dry-fire a rimfire gun.

The 22a doesn't lock the slide back after the last round is fired.. doesn't that mean that unless you count your shots, you end up dry-firing with every mag?
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Old 01-02-2011, 2:15 PM
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In the name of absolute piece of mind I think making sure your rimfire is unloaded trumphs firing pin wear. I think, but am not certain, rimfire mfgs refer to dry firing more in the sense of frivolous dry firing.
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Old 01-02-2011, 4:30 PM
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How much is a firing pin replacement? Two dollars? Three dollars? Five dollars? Ten dollars? I would rather pull the trigger 11 times for every time I shoot a ten round magazine and have the last trigger pull go "click" than have an accidental discharge.
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Old 01-02-2011, 4:52 PM
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Ok..

Let's get off the accidental discharge trail.

I'm posting to see if that's indeed how it works with this pistol, that's all. And to see if there are workarounds, or how many 10-round mags before the firing pin needs changing.

Based on the design, I'm surprised nothing turned up in the reviews regarding requiring frequent firing pin exchange.
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Old 01-02-2011, 4:54 PM
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Check and see if the FP is somehow given a block of some sort to prevent damage. I do believe that the 10/22 has an FP block and can be dry fired because of it.

Also, a primary concern is scratching the chamber, not just firing pin damage.
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Old 01-02-2011, 5:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnh327 View Post
My understanding is that you're never supposed to dry-fire a rimfire gun.
Absolutely not. There are a few, a very few, that it could damage, but it's fine to dry fire the vast majority of them.

I have over ten 22's and I dry fire all of them except my P22.
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  #7  
Old 01-02-2011, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by XDRoX View Post
Absolutely not. There are a few, a very few, that it could damage, but it's fine to dry fire the vast majority of them.

I have over ten 22's and I dry fire all of them except my P22.
How do you know which are ok? Will it say in the manual?

It's funny how you get such varying opinions with regards to this stuff. I've had a gun shop tell me you're not supposed to take apart a ruger mark III. He actually laughed at the idea, brought his body over, and they both had a good laugh that someone would do that.
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Old 01-02-2011, 5:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDRoX View Post
Absolutely not. There are a few, a very few, that it could damage, but it's fine to dry fire the vast majority of them.

I have over ten 22's and I dry fire all of them except my P22.
I thought dry firing the P22 with the safety on was ok... do you just choose not to? Sorry, guess it's a thread jack. But yes, xdrox hit it on the dot for the most part.
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Old 01-02-2011, 6:10 PM
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I don't see any firing pin block on mine. It just sits there free floating. I have dry fired my HP22A so many times just fooling around with the slide rack after I opened it up and modded the internals to get rid of the stupid California safeties that came with the pistol which rendered the gun practically worthless.

Anyway, I don't concern myself with the cost of the firing pin because a) the gun is so affordable anyway, I got mine with 2 barrels for like 150 bucks and b) Phoenix Arms will gladly repair or replace your pistol for free for life!

I love mine. Never a FTF or FTE in the last 750 rounds with a mix of ammo. Like I said, it was the infernal safeties that turn off most people on this pistol but once you defeat them, the pistol acts and behaves like any other SA pistol.

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  #10  
Old 01-03-2011, 5:18 PM
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OMG - you're right about those safeties! Actually makes the gun less safe, because you don't know what the heck is going on.

I read the book, and states specifically do not dry fire this gun.

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Originally Posted by joeyant View Post
I don't see any firing pin block on mine. It just sits there free floating. I have dry fired my HP22A so many times just fooling around with the slide rack after I opened it up and modded the internals to get rid of the stupid California safeties that came with the pistol which rendered the gun practically worthless.
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  #11  
Old 01-03-2011, 5:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackandblood View Post
In the name of absolute piece of mind I think making sure your rimfire is unloaded trumphs firing pin wear. I think, but am not certain, rimfire mfgs refer to dry firing more in the sense of frivolous dry firing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyant View Post
How much is a firing pin replacement? Two dollars? Three dollars? Five dollars? Ten dollars? I would rather pull the trigger 11 times for every time I shoot a ten round magazine and have the last trigger pull go "click" than have an accidental discharge.
^
WTF kind of retard doesn't check the chamber before setting the gun down after firing?

Unless I'm doing some rapid fire/drills I usually count my rounds down range so I don't drop the hammer on an empty chamber.

Because rimfire guns have an offset firing pin, the FP will strike the edge of the chamber when empty. It will start to peen the chamber and cause a burr to form. I've got a 60+ year old High Standard that clearly shows this happening. There are tools out there to ream or swage the chamber out to eliminate this, but I haven't found this necessary on any of my firearms. Theoretically dry firing may also damage the firing pin, but I've never seen it happen. If it does, Phoenix will take care of it.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. By the time something like that might happen, you'll have received your money's worth from the gun 10 fold.
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Old 01-03-2011, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnh327 View Post
How do you know which are ok? Will it say in the manual?

It's funny how you get such varying opinions with regards to this stuff. I've had a gun shop tell me you're not supposed to take apart a ruger mark III. He actually laughed at the idea, brought his body over, and they both had a good laugh that someone would do that.
I don't know if it would say in the manual or not. Once I have taken a gun apart and see how it works I decide if I should dry fire it or not. That and years of reading online forums. So unfortunately I don't know if your gun can be safely dry fired, but I'd bet it could, especially if the slide doesn't stay back after the last round. No way do they expect people to count.

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Originally Posted by Whatisthis? View Post
I thought dry firing the P22 with the safety on was ok... do you just choose not to? Sorry, guess it's a thread jack. But yes, xdrox hit it on the dot for the most part.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I do dry fire it with the safety on. Although I have seen pictures of a P22 safety breaking because of dry firing. I don't worry about it though.

With all my guns I'm not 100% sure that damage is not being done, but I will argue that the damage is so minimal, we'll be long dead before dry firing does any damage that needs repairing.

Life's too short to worry about dry firing IMO
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2011, 9:23 PM
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Are CCI Mini Mags ok to use in the hp22a?
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Old 01-04-2011, 10:04 PM
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I've used mini mags in mine and they functioned flawlessly. Besides, if you are the original owner there's a lifetime warranty on it if something goes awry.
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2011, 11:28 PM
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oh boy did he ever look authoritative calling other people retards. that took alot of guts there jeffM...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffM View Post
^
WTF kind of retard doesn't check the chamber before setting the gun down after firing?

Unless I'm doing some rapid fire/drills I usually count my rounds down range so I don't drop the hammer on an empty chamber.

Because rimfire guns have an offset firing pin, the FP will strike the edge of the chamber when empty. It will start to peen the chamber and cause a burr to form. I've got a 60+ year old High Standard that clearly shows this happening. There are tools out there to ream or swage the chamber out to eliminate this, but I haven't found this necessary on any of my firearms. Theoretically dry firing may also damage the firing pin, but I've never seen it happen. If it does, Phoenix will take care of it.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. By the time something like that might happen, you'll have received your money's worth from the gun 10 fold.
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Old 01-05-2011, 1:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyant View Post
I don't see any firing pin block on mine. It just sits there free floating. I have dry fired my HP22A so many times just fooling around with the slide rack after I opened it up and modded the internals to get rid of the stupid California safeties that came with the pistol which rendered the gun practically worthless.

Anyway, I don't concern myself with the cost of the firing pin because a) the gun is so affordable anyway, I got mine with 2 barrels for like 150 bucks and b) Phoenix Arms will gladly repair or replace your pistol for free for life!

I love mine. Never a FTF or FTE in the last 750 rounds with a mix of ammo. Like I said, it was the infernal safeties that turn off most people on this pistol but once you defeat them, the pistol acts and behaves like any other SA pistol.

i just got my hp-22a for xmas, except m,ine is black. i would like to know how to disable some of those crappy safeties, can anybody give me a link or at least instructions on how to do it?
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Old 01-05-2011, 2:04 AM
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I got mine new in 1998 great little gun I havve put a few thousand rds thru it with very little problems only thing I found is it dont like sub sonic ammo but other than that it igreat. I just found a youtube video a ffew months ago and learned how to fix the safties now I love it even more. I do wish the slide locked back but it dont so I almost always dry fire the last round never been a problem yet. I am not worried about it because I think I got my $80 out of it by now. LOL
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Old 01-05-2011, 3:21 AM
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Phoenix Arms is a great company. They really stand behind their product and warranty. I miss my HP22 which I sold to finance something else. Honestly, I preferred Phoenix over the much more expensive Walther. Among 22lr handguns, Phoenix, Ruger 22/45, and Browning Buckmark should be on top of the list. My only complaint, like most others, is TOO MANY safeties!!!

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Old 01-05-2011, 10:26 AM
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Go here for more info and for info on disabling the "safety" mechanisms:

http://www.bryco-jennings-jimenezarm...34b53568d62a02

The danger to your gun from dry-firing is peening the chamber as mentioned above. You can put an expended cartridge in to prevent this and dry-fire until the empty cartridge needs replacing. The worst case scenario from a peended chamber is a case blow-out in the area peened away by the firing pin during dry-firing.
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Old 01-05-2011, 3:24 PM
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To the OP, if you are really worried about dry firing your Phoenix, get some Aguila ammo, the one that is primer fired (no powder), and just load the first round in your mags with one of these. The round will fire but it will not cycle the action. There's a video on you tube of a guy doing this.
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Old 01-05-2011, 8:44 PM
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Thanks, I saw that video, and that's what got me thinking..

Is it possible that the design is so flawed, as to do something harmful to the gun with every mag?

Those Aquila rounds are not cheap, and should not be necessary.

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To the OP, if you are really worried about dry firing your Phoenix, get some Aguila ammo, the one that is primer fired (no powder), and just load the first round in your mags with one of these. The round will fire but it will not cycle the action. There's a video on you tube of a guy doing this.
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Old 01-05-2011, 8:51 PM
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http://www.azoomsnapcaps.com/training-rounds.php

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  #23  
Old 01-06-2011, 8:37 PM
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Just doesn't seem that this would be the answer.

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[url]
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Old 01-06-2011, 8:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffM View Post
^
WTF kind of retard doesn't check the chamber before setting the gun down after firing?
Unless I'm doing some rapid fire/drills I usually count my rounds down range so I don't drop the hammer on an empty chamber.

Because rimfire guns have an offset firing pin, the FP will strike the edge of the chamber when empty. It will start to peen the chamber and cause a burr to form. I've got a 60+ year old High Standard that clearly shows this happening. There are tools out there to ream or swage the chamber out to eliminate this, but I haven't found this necessary on any of my firearms. Theoretically dry firing may also damage the firing pin, but I've never seen it happen. If it does, Phoenix will take care of it.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. By the time something like that might happen, you'll have received your money's worth from the gun 10 fold.
Dude, I always check the chamber before setting it down after firing. If you don't believe me, check the picture of my HP22A above. Since the HP22 does not have a bolt open feature after the last round is fired, I do it manually after ejecting the magazine. Doing so was not possible with all the California redundant safeties inherent in the gun, which in my opinion actually rendered the pistol more unsafe because it did not behave like a normal automatic pistol.
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Old 01-06-2011, 8:55 PM
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Default zoom snap caps are not for dry firing

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Originally Posted by ivanimal View Post

These blue snap caps were designed to teach loading and unloading but they did not recommend actually firing on them, especially on a rimfire pistol where the pin hits the edge of the snap cap instead of the center again and again.

I bought these snap caps to teach my wife how to load/unload her Airlite 22LR revolver.

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  #26  
Old 01-06-2011, 8:57 PM
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I agree, this gun, as delivered, is like 'WTF??' were they thinking? It doesn't operate like anything else, and is actually unsafe. Luckily there is a quick fix. See youtube for the quick mod. Haven't done it yet myself, figured I should try it first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyant View Post
I do it manually after ejecting the magazine. Doing so was not possible with all the California redundant safeties inherent in the gun, which in my opinion actually rendered the pistol more unsafe because it did not behave like a normal automatic pistol.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:43 PM
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http://www.pachmayr.com/plastic-caps.php



Quote:
Ideal for training, working firearm action and dry firing.

Snap Caps allow safe dry firing while protecting firing pin, sear and trigger. Excellent for firearms safety and storage. Dry Fire Dummy Rounds are made of tough plastic exterior with solid brass base.
They make them for th 22 as well

http://images1.opticsplanet.com/180-...caps-03200.png

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Old 01-07-2011, 10:45 PM
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my HP22A holds open after the last round.......
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Old 01-09-2011, 7:54 AM
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I mean, it's supposed to, right?

But from what I've read here and seen in videos, it does not.

Maybe yours is a unique specimen? Haven't tried mine, but I'll update when I do.

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my HP22A holds open after the last round.......
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Old 02-10-2012, 7:52 AM
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i believe that the hp22 was not designed to hold open on the last shot. but its possible that your gun has had a hold open kit installed. just read about that being available a few days ago. lol... but dont ask me where...

im in the search right now for a new hp22, actually 2, one for me and one for my little lady. (she is a little afraid of guns, but does well with 22's. i have severe arthritis so really dont want bigger right now.) its been about 40 years or a little more since i have fired a gun of any kind. (gave 'em up for the first wife, geesh what a mess that turned out to be! lol...) but with the sad state of affairs of the world these days, and who knows what our country will be like by the end of this next administration, i figured its about time to get back into firearms and getting a concealed carry permit. (i live in Ohio btw) i do like the hp22, i recently held one and it fit well and looked great. the owner said he's put about 2,000 rds of bulk federal thru it without one hiccup, except for a few times he didnt have the mag seated all the way. just thought i would drop by and say hello!
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Old 02-12-2012, 7:10 AM
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I feel like a dummy but I can't recall what my 22a does
On the last shot. I probably only have 60 rounds that I put through it.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:17 PM
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I remember reading about a kit, I think it was a replacement follower for the magazines, that acts like a last round hold open. I remember them being pricey for what they were, something like $14 a piece. I guess if you really care about not damaging a $130 gun that much, especially when it has a lifetime warranty, it might be worth the investment. You could always experiment and find a subsonic load that won't cycle and load that as the last round in each magazine, so you won't be able to dry fire it(since the gun has a SA only trigger if the slide doesn't cycle it won't reset the hammer, so you won't be able to dry fire it).

My GF has one of these guns, she likes it, but isn't crazy about it, she hates the fact that there is no last round hold open and she thinks its kind of sad that she was able to be more accurate with my XD9SC at 15 yards than she is with her HP22. We are going to order the 5" barrel kit for it to see what kind of improvement we can get out of it, but more than likely if it doesn't make it any better it will be showing up in the market place very soon.
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Old 02-12-2012, 2:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishPirate View Post
my HP22A holds open after the last round.......
weird, mine doesn't.
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Old 02-12-2012, 2:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mnh327 View Post
Are CCI Mini Mags ok to use in the hp22a?
Used them many times before, no issues.
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Old 02-12-2012, 2:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elee62652 View Post
i believe that the hp22 was not designed to hold open on the last shot. but its possible that your gun has had a hold open kit installed. just read about that being available a few days ago. lol... but dont ask me where...

im in the search right now for a new hp22, actually 2, one for me and one for my little lady. (she is a little afraid of guns, but does well with 22's. i have severe arthritis so really dont want bigger right now.) its been about 40 years or a little more since i have fired a gun of any kind. (gave 'em up for the first wife, geesh what a mess that turned out to be! lol...) but with the sad state of affairs of the world these days, and who knows what our country will be like by the end of this next administration, i figured its about time to get back into firearms and getting a concealed carry permit. (i live in Ohio btw) i do like the hp22, i recently held one and it fit well and looked great. the owner said he's put about 2,000 rds of bulk federal thru it without one hiccup, except for a few times he didnt have the mag seated all the way. just thought i would drop by and say hello!
Howdy to you in OH. Great way to jump in, glad to hear from you.
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Old 02-12-2012, 7:05 PM
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Anybody knows where to find one in NorCal/bay area?
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Old 02-21-2012, 9:07 AM
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I would agree with the idea to use Aguila Super Quiet Colibri's, they dont contain powder only fired by the primer. They make a really funny noise, letting you know that you have fired the last shot.

They do not come with a last round bolt hold open.

Advice for HP22a owners DO NOT fire high velocity ammo. I have read in reviews that it is fine to use, just dont use super velocity. THIS IS NOT TRUE. I put 750 rounds through mine all high velocity, hammer ended up breaking.

Luckily I took it to the factory (in ontario), and they gave me a new one, plus two free mags.

Also to get around the safeties. You can do it with no mods. Just remove the mag, Put it back in until it stops, about halfway in, and then you can move the safety freely, allowing you to rack the slide with no mag.
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  #38  
Old 02-21-2012, 8:50 PM
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chiz chiz is offline
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Imade this video years ago showing how to remove the magazine disconnect

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Old 05-31-2012, 9:49 AM
Ezzieq Ezzieq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drifter2be View Post
I remember reading about a kit, I think it was a replacement follower for the magazines, that acts like a last round hold open. I remember them being pricey for what they were, something like $14 a piece. I guess if you really care about not damaging a $130 gun that much, especially when it has a lifetime warranty, it might be worth the investment. You could always experiment and find a subsonic load that won't cycle and load that as the last round in each magazine, so you won't be able to dry fire it(since the gun has a SA only trigger if the slide doesn't cycle it won't reset the hammer, so you won't be able to dry fire it).

My GF has one of these guns, she likes it, but isn't crazy about it, she hates the fact that there is no last round hold open and she thinks its kind of sad that she was able to be more accurate with my XD9SC at 15 yards than she is with her HP22. We are going to order the 5" barrel kit for it to see what kind of improvement we can get out of it, but more than likely if it doesn't make it any better it will be showing up in the market place very soon.
A STOCK hp22a will not hold open.

There are Last Round Hold Open Kits available, two different ones, but they are special order. As far as I can tell only 1 company makes them. They sell them on ebay. Sellers name is topstar76. If you contact him personally he will send a link to order without having to do the ebay bid.

One is a Magazine Follower Replacement Kit which allows you to keep 10 rnd capacity. Runs about $20 + shipping per magazine, or you can bid on ebay and get it cheaper maybe.

Second is a insert in the magazine that has similar size a 22 round which stays in the magazine and takes up the room of one round. This reduces your capacity to 9 rnds. Runs about $8.50 + shipping or try bidding.

I just bought a few of the second kind, haven't tried them out yet, should get them this week. I will update with what I think.
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Old 07-12-2012, 1:26 PM
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Not sure if Phoenix still has these available, but I hope so:

http://phoenixparts.mypressonline.com/hp22aloc.html

Im picking my HP 22a up in a week so I'd like to figure this out as well, or I'll hopefully remember to get some snap caps.
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