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  #1  
Old 12-27-2010, 10:15 AM
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Default Ship ammo to Ca no more

I placed a order for some ammo at CTD and she told me as of Dec 31 they will no longer be shipping to Ca
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  #2  
Old 12-27-2010, 10:28 AM
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No way, are you serious???????
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  #3  
Old 12-27-2010, 10:28 AM
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so it begins.
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  #4  
Old 12-27-2010, 10:30 AM
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It was just a matter of time before this happened. This is already the 3rd or 4th thread too....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP3 View Post
so it begins.
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  #5  
Old 12-27-2010, 10:32 AM
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Tons of posts on this in months past...fingerprinting at the dealer with all handgun ammo....no on line sales at all....purchase records kept on all sales...all ammo behind the counter and away from the shoppers...welcome to reality starting 2/1/11
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  #6  
Old 12-27-2010, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sfonelson View Post
No way, are you serious???????
Totaly. no BS .. call around and see for yourself

And I was ordering .308
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  #7  
Old 12-27-2010, 8:54 PM
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Geezzhhuusss...
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Old 12-27-2010, 9:02 PM
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I don't blame them one bit. The clowns that got AB 962 through were elected by the people of California, and thus the people of California are responsible. Consider that some nutcase overreaching prosecutor could decide, "HEY, THOMPSON CENTER MAKES A HANDGUN THAT SHOOTS 308 WINCHESTER! THEREFORE, THAT'S HANDGUN AMMO!" Next thing you know, the executive team of CTD is now getting cuffed and extradited to California to stand criminal trial.

Why aren't you people reloading yet?? Haven't you gotten the memo? It's time to get started NOW!
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  #9  
Old 12-27-2010, 9:23 PM
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I'm really going to do all I can this year to relocate to a free state.
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2010, 6:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy T View Post
I don't blame them one bit. The clowns that got AB 962 through were elected by the people of California, and thus the people of California are responsible. Consider that some nutcase overreaching prosecutor could decide, "HEY, THOMPSON CENTER MAKES A HANDGUN THAT SHOOTS 308 WINCHESTER! THEREFORE, THAT'S HANDGUN AMMO!" Next thing you know, the executive team of CTD is now getting cuffed and extradited to California to stand criminal trial.

Why aren't you people reloading yet?? Haven't you gotten the memo? It's time to get started NOW!

I'm already ticked off with AB 962, lets just hope that these "clowns" that authored the bill does not come up with another bill that attacks the reloaders of this once glorious state.
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  #11  
Old 12-28-2010, 6:56 AM
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I keep asking myself why do I stay here and keep taking this abuse. At some point this madness has to end.
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  #12  
Old 12-28-2010, 7:03 AM
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Welcome to the pain.

Just think, this is only the beginning.

Can we really blame online sales places and other States for not wanting to hassle with all our restrictive, unconstitutional, and petty gun and ammunition laws?

We can only hope, and work politically to remove this law, and until then, hope these places will take the time, spend monies for legal advise, and they actually get good legal advise, for doing business here.
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  #13  
Old 12-28-2010, 8:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotnMore View Post
Welcome to the pain.

Just think, this is only the beginning.

Can we really blame online sales places and other States for not wanting to hassle with all our restrictive, unconstitutional, and petty gun and ammunition laws?

We can only hope, and work politically to remove this law, and until then, hope these places will take the time, spend monies for legal advise, and they actually get good legal advise, for doing business here.
Question response: No, of course not.

Statement: Some businesses have already indicated their course of action. I don't see them spending any money for something that they have already made up their mind about.
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  #14  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:31 AM
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Was the only legal challenge to AB 962 dismissed?
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  #15  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotnMore View Post
Welcome to the pain.

Just think, this is only the beginning.

Can we really blame online sales places and other States for not wanting to hassle with all our restrictive, unconstitutional, and petty gun and ammunition laws?

We can only hope, and work politically to remove this law, and until then, hope these places will take the time, spend monies for legal advise, and they actually get good legal advise, for doing business here.
What I dont understand is, if the laws are unconstitutional, how are they able to enact them and not have them summarily struck down before ever seeing the light of day? Is there not a lawyer involved in the process of writing the laws that can stop things and say "Hey, this is unconstitutional we cannot pass this"
Forgive my ignorance, its an honest question, I originally came from Canada, so I am still learning the ins and outs of how laws are created and passed here.

Especially bullsh*t ones like AB962

Last edited by SupportGeek; 12-28-2010 at 10:33 AM.. Reason: added last line
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  #16  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dandechino View Post
Was the only legal challenge to AB 962 dismissed?
One was, IIRC there are 2 more, one will be heard in January, I think its Michael and associates that is quarterbacking that one. Everything Ive read indicates they are VERY competent, and have an excellent shot at tearing 962 down
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  #17  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:36 AM
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Yay for the democrats!
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  #18  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:36 AM
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I just got a call from Sportsman's Guide today for some backordered ammo that will no longer be shipped to me. I stated I have an exemption via a C&R 03 and CA DOJ issued Certificate of Eligibility. The rep. said it was a corporate decision to not ship ANY ammunition to California and that they were not aware of any exemptions. (I guess the rank & file LEO's won't be mail ordering any hunting ammo any time soon from Sportsman's).

So, there you go, CA has achieved it's goal.

I did ask the SG rep for the corporate office number so I could at least speak to a higher up and educate them about the nuances of the law (however crappy they are...).

651-451-3030, press "0" for the Operator and ask to speak to someone in corporate...

When I get some time, I'll call, just to see what they have to say.
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  #19  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beemaze View Post
I just got a call from Sportsman's Guide today for some backordered ammo that will no longer be shipped to me. I stated I have an exemption via a C&R 03 and CA DOJ issued Certificate of Eligibility. The rep. said it was a corporate decision to not ship ANY ammunition to California and that they were not aware of any exemptions. (I guess the rank & file LEO's won't be mail ordering any hunting ammo any time soon from Sportsman's).

So, there you go, CA has achieved it's goal.

I did ask the SG rep for the corporate office number so I could at least speak to a higher up and educate them about the nuances of the law (however crappy they are...).

651-451-3030, press "0" for the Operator and ask to speak to someone in corporate...

When I get some time, I'll call, just to see what they have to say.
I'm glad Cabelas isn't like that yet, my ammo is currently on a UPS truck driving through Indiana at the moment.
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  #20  
Old 12-28-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helpful_Cub View Post
I'm glad Cabelas isn't like that yet, my ammo is currently on a UPS truck driving through Indiana at the moment.
You didn't get the fear email from cabelas telling Komifornians to stock up and that they would stop shipping on jan 21st?
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  #21  
Old 12-28-2010, 5:43 PM
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Default I've been stocking up

I've been stocking up on handgun and rifle ammo for the past 6 months. I have enough to last me at least 2 years. When I go to the Really Big Gun Show in Reno twice a year, I will also stop at Scheels or Cabelas if I don't find what I want at the show.

Screw California and its f****d up laws. My money will be spent out of state. No sales tax revenue for California on my purchases. These idiots have been chasing businesses out of the state with their punitive tax regulations and anti-business stances on just about everything. Tax revenues are way down. You would think that all of the tax and spend politicians would realize that their actions are seriously depleting their source of revenue for the state. Now they are running out of other people's money to spend.
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  #22  
Old 12-29-2010, 9:06 AM
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Why is Sacramento doing this? Greed is usually the reason behind idiocy - so, who in Sacramento gains with this law going into effect?
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  #23  
Old 12-29-2010, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwest View Post
Why is Sacramento doing this? Greed is usually the reason behind idiocy - so, who in Sacramento gains with this law going into effect?
Win, win for Republik of Kali, lose, lose for us. Previously, they had already cut down noticeably on the amount of handguns sold in this not so sunny state, now they are cutting down on our availability of ammo, and end results of both have already, as in the case of handguns, raised costs / values, and the same will happen to ammo costs / values.
Someday in the not so distant future, we will registering our slingshots and crossbows and paying annual taxes.
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  #24  
Old 12-29-2010, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupportGeek View Post
What I dont understand is, if the laws are unconstitutional, how are they able to enact them and not have them summarily struck down before ever seeing the light of day? Is there not a lawyer involved in the process of writing the laws that can stop things and say "Hey, this is unconstitutional we cannot pass this"
Forgive my ignorance, its an honest question, I originally came from Canada, so I am still learning the ins and outs of how laws are created and passed here.

Especially bullsh*t ones like AB962
It's because all the Democrats voted in lock-step with this, as is usual for both the major political parties in this country. What amazes me is that SchwarzeTRAITOR actually signed it into law. How he could do that is beyond me; he should've vetoed it.

See, it's a power trip. The elected officials understand human psychology very well. They know that if they send the SWAT team in large numbers with guns drawn, the vast majority of people will give up for fear of being shot and/or beaten to a bloody pulp. That's what happened in New Orleans just after Hurricane Katrina with the illegal gun grab. SWAT-like teams went from house to house, breaking down doors, pointing their locked-and-loaded AR-15's at law-abiding citizens, and confiscating their guns. One grandmother got tackled by these jackbooted thugs (this was caught on film). This was totally illegal and exactly as it happens in police states.

However....

I understand there was one New Orleans neighborhood which didn't have its homes invaded like that. Turns out the residents were armed to the teeth and had been forewarned about this ongoing gun grab. They set up and pointed right at the jackboot thugs when they arrived. The jackboot thugs saw all that firepower with their name on it and were told, "don't try that here, fellas". The jackboots thought better about it and left peacefully. Funny how that worked, ain't it?

I repeat: it's a power trip. When you think you control most or all of the guns, you think you can literally get away with murder. And that's what California is turning into (can we say "Julian Alexander", folks?).
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  #25  
Old 12-29-2010, 2:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '09CTS-V&'87Turbo-T View Post
Statement: Some businesses have already indicated their course of action. I don't see them spending any money for something that they have already made up their mind about.
oh, but they are spending money on it, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...hlight=cheaper
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  #26  
Old 12-29-2010, 3:17 PM
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OK, thanks for the correction, I was not aware of that. However, bottom line of this is I think that it will be a very long uphill battle with the final decision going to uphold the new bill. I saw a letter from Cabellas posted on at least one of the gun forums, if not this one, that I believed Cabellas stated that they are stopping all internet California shipments, pistol and handgun.
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Old 12-30-2010, 1:07 PM
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Default What about Mags

I thought i had read somewhere that magazines are counted as ammo....if so does this affect buying magazines online....mags can get expensive depending on the weapon you own. i will buy rebuild kits and assemble them if they are cheaper providing that they are not hi-cap
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Old 12-30-2010, 2:19 PM
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I thought i had read somewhere that magazines are counted as ammo....if so does this affect buying magazines online....mags can get expensive depending on the weapon you own. i will buy rebuild kits and assemble them if they are cheaper providing that they are not hi-cap
Please provide a valid source for your information.
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Old 12-30-2010, 4:15 PM
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I thought i had read somewhere that magazines are counted as ammo....if so does this affect buying magazines online....mags can get expensive depending on the weapon you own. i will buy rebuild kits and assemble them if they are cheaper providing that they are not hi-cap
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Originally Posted by Chief-7700 View Post
Please provide a valid source for your information.
he said he thought he read it somewhere and was asking for confirmation.

anyways, this appears to be where most people seem to think that AB962 deals with magazines.

Quote:
SEC. 5. Section 12316 of the Penal Code is amended to read:
12316. (a) (1) Any person, corporation, or dealer who does any of
the following shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for
a term not to exceed six months, or by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the imprisonment and fine:
(A) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition to a person under
18 years of age.
(B) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition designed and
intended for use in a handgun to a person under 21 years of age. As
used in this subparagraph, "ammunition" means handgun ammunition as
defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12323. Where ammunition or
reloaded ammunition may be used in both a rifle and a handgun, it may
be sold to a person who is at least 18 years of age, but less than
21 years of age, if the vendor reasonably believes that the
ammunition is being acquired for use in a rifle and not a handgun.
(C) Supplies, delivers, or gives possession of any ammunition to
any minor who he or she knows, or using reasonable care should know,
is prohibited from possessing that ammunition at that time pursuant
to Section 12101.
(2) Proof that a person, corporation, or dealer, or his or her
agent or employee, demanded, was shown, and acted in reasonable
reliance upon, bona fide evidence of majority and identity shall be a
defense to any criminal prosecution under this subdivision. As used
in this subdivision, "bona fide evidence of majority and identity"
means a document issued by a federal, state, county, or municipal
government, or subdivision or agency thereof, including, but not
limited to, a motor vehicle operator's license, California state
identification card, identification card issued to a member of the
Armed Forces, or other form of identification that bears the name,
date of birth, description, and picture of the person.
(b) (1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm
under Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103
of the Welfare and Institutions Code shall own, possess, or have
under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded
ammunition.
(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include
blanks.

(3) A violation of paragraph (1) of this subdivision is punishable
by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year or in the
state prison, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000),
or by both the fine and imprisonment.
(4) A person who is not prohibited by paragraph (1) from owning,
possessing, or having under his or her custody or control, any
ammunition or reloaded ammunition, but who is enjoined from engaging
in activity pursuant to an injunction issued pursuant to Section 3479
of the Civil Code against that person as a member of a criminal
street gang, as defined in Section 186.22, may not own, possess, or
have under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded
ammunition.
(5) A violation of paragraph (4) of this subdivision is a
misdemeanor.
(c) Unless it is with the written permission of the school
district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school
authority, no person shall carry ammunition or reloaded ammunition
onto school grounds, except sworn law enforcement officers acting
within the scope of their duties or persons exempted under
subparagraph (A) of paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) of Section
12027. This subdivision shall not apply to a duly appointed peace
officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of
Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or
the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in
California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in
making an arrest or preserving the peace while he or she is actually
engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of
this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance
of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the
firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of
Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, who is
engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in
subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.
A violation of this subdivision is punishable by imprisonment in a
county jail for a term not to exceed six months, a fine not to exceed
one thousand dollars ($1,000), or both the imprisonment and fine.
(d) (1) A violation of paragraph (1) or (4) of subdivision (b) is
justifiable where all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person found the ammunition or reloaded ammunition or took
the ammunition or reloaded ammunition from a person who was
committing a crime against him or her.
(B) The person possessed the ammunition or reloaded ammunition no
longer than was necessary to deliver or transport the ammunition or
reloaded ammunition to a law enforcement agency for that agency's
disposition according to law.
(C) The person is prohibited from possessing any ammunition or
reloaded ammunition solely because that person is prohibited from
owning or possessing a firearm only by virtue of Section 12021 or
ammunition or reloaded ammunition because of paragraph (4) of
subdivision (b).
(2) Upon the trial for violating paragraph (1) or (4) of
subdivision (b), the trier of fact shall determine whether the
defendant is subject to the exemption created by this subdivision.
(3) The defendant has the burden of proving by a preponderance of
the evidence that he or she is subject to the exemption provided by
this subdivision.
they see that bolded section in the amended 12316 and assume that it is new, that it is part of AB962. Nope, that is existing law and, that definition of "ammunition" only applies to 12316(b), not to the "mail order" ban of "handgun ammo" that is in 12061.
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Old 12-30-2010, 7:29 PM
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It refers specifically to "prohibited persons". That's the differentiator. That's why law-abiding handloaders will still be able to order bullets via mail order and make their own ammunition with it.

However, the language, "or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence" could be taken by some overzealous prosecutor to mean a roll of dimes. Crazy? Not really. There are many old tales from back in the day about shotshells being loaded with dimes or dime-sized objects. The same is true of marbles, or steel shot. I can actually envision a prosecutor trumping up 12316 charges on a felon who has done his time and is now working in, say, bead-blasting or any other non-firearm usage of steel, ceramic, or even lead shot. Remember, we're talkin' about California here, home of traitors like Kevin de Leon and Dianne "I Have A Carry Permit But You Can't" Feinstein.
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Last edited by Cowboy T; 12-30-2010 at 7:53 PM.. Reason: Section 12316 addition
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Old 01-03-2011, 7:18 AM
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It refers specifically to "prohibited persons". That's the differentiator. That's why law-abiding handloaders will still be able to order bullets via mail order and make their own ammunition with it.
Cool Beans, so I can still buy bulk bullets and reload them???
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Old 01-03-2011, 6:48 PM
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Yep, as long as you're not a "prohibited person", you're good to go.

And that's why I keep saying, "why isn't every shooter in California getting set up to reload?" Something like a Lee Classic Turret Press is not that expensive!
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Old 01-03-2011, 9:11 PM
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Yep, as long as you're not a "prohibited person", you're good to go.

And that's why I keep saying, "why isn't every shooter in California getting set up to reload?" Something like a Lee Classic Turret Press is not that expensive!
not into reloading so i dont have a clue about it.is it easy to find once fired brass and all the rest for 7.62x39?
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:06 PM
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Not for 7.62x39 and most other Com-block cartridges, but you definitely *can* find 7.62x39 brass/Boxer *ammo*, which you can reload. Cabela's often has sales on MFS ammo in 7.62x39 (box of 20 for $6.99).

As for bullets, you typically need .311" projectiles if you're shooting through an AK-47, SKS, or Mosin-Nagant. I haven't tried to buy .311" jacketed bullets, as I will cast my own projectiles. But I do recall them being available. In a pinch, .308" jacketed will "do", but likely won't give you the same precision in Com-block firearms.
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy T View Post
Yep, as long as you're not a "prohibited person", you're good to go.

And that's why I keep saying, "why isn't every shooter in California getting set up to reload?" Something like a Lee Classic Turret Press is not that expensive!
I'd like to, but even though the roommates are fine with the SKS in the house, I doubt their goodwill would extend to gunpowder...

Though, I have considered the Lee hand press thing, that needs no bench/is handheld. Hell, I only have 60 casings anyway, no need for a massive operation. But still, I don't think we should be forced to acclimate to the state. Hell, I thought our government was "for" the people, not "against them."

Oh well.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:23 AM
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I'd like to, but even though the roommates are fine with the SKS in the house, I doubt their goodwill would extend to gunpowder...

Though, I have considered the Lee hand press thing, that needs no bench/is handheld. Hell, I only have 60 casings anyway, no need for a massive operation. But still, I don't think we should be forced to acclimate to the state. Hell, I thought our government was "for" the people, not "against them."

Oh well.
Then get the Lee "Handloader" the $25 kit that uses a hammer. That will do your 60 cases with minimum cost/effort.
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Old 01-04-2011, 1:04 PM
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Good idea, Lead Waster, and Ergo would only need maybe a lb of powder for that and a few hundred primers. He could do it in his bedroom totally unobtrusively. Here's a video of Richard Lee himself using that Lee Loader ("Handloader") kit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEl9wZyabc

Granted, it neck-sizes only, but if I had only 60 cases, I'd be doing slightly downloaded loads anyway to preserve my brass as long as possible. Doesn't really need to cycle the action (you can do that manually), because marksmanship is #1 anyway.
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Old 01-04-2011, 1:30 PM
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Ammo man saays get your order in by the 21th.
Why are they doing this? Besides hating gun owners they will now get sales tax on all ammo sales. I am sure thaat was a big factor.
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Old 01-05-2011, 9:19 PM
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Thankfully CMP is still sending ammo to CA, just ordered 400 rds.
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Old 01-05-2011, 9:40 PM
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Ammo man saays get your order in by the 21th.
Why are they doing this? Besides hating gun owners they will now get sales tax on all ammo sales. I am sure thaat was a big factor.
I was also thinking it had something to do with money like $ales tax. But does ammo really make up that much of out of state online purchases? I would be willing to bet that Californians spend more money at amazon.com in a week then people buying online ammo do all year.
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