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Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

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  #1  
Old 12-26-2010, 9:38 PM
trg-s338 trg-s338 is offline
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Default Wolf primers seated too deep? Dillon 650

Trying my hand at reloading after lurking on this forum for a long time. Took me a couple of years to accumulate the necessary equipment and components. Spent hours setting the Dillon 650 XL for 223 reloading, all Dillon non-Carbide dies and the machine ordered for 223. Got it almost dialed in but the Wolf primers I use in mixed brass reloading seem to be seated too deep, roughly 0.005" to my best reading with a depth micrometer. Much deeper than some factory ammo I compare it to. I've read that the primer cup has to "bottom out" without crushing or deforming the primer to have proper reliable ignition. Is this deep primer something I have to be concerned about? I have not shot any yet as I am in the setup stage at this point but the 6 dummy rounds I have loaded so far look decent except for the primer depth.

On a second issue, I am having to load to a COL of 2.238 to fit into magazines I have to prevent bullet tip drag in the mag, which I suspect may cause unreliable feeds if not enough clearance is allowed for. I am using Hornady 55 gr. FMJ-BT ball in this batch. I've read someones COL for AR 15 loading at 2.450 but that seems too long for my mags. I just want comments on this and what you load to on the COL.

Thanks for any input, and thanks for all the knowledge I've picked up over the years.

Manny
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2010, 9:51 PM
bruce381 bruce381 is offline
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Unless you really put all your weight on the handle its hard top crush a primer
on the 650 since it is on the upstroke.

I use only winchester but the wolf maybe slighly shorter as long as it bottoms out and you get the fell for that you are OK.
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Old 12-27-2010, 5:39 PM
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Southpaw45 Southpaw45 is offline
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If the primer seems to be seating a little deep, thats ok. As long as the primers dont have a flat crushed look to them and nobody took to much material out of the primer pocket when squaring them up or overly aggressive primer pocket cleaning was done. Using mixed brands of brass, you will find some have deeper pockets than others. I would want them a little low than to high anyways. That anvil needs to take a set in the primer to function properly. I used Wolf 223 and CCI SR primers and they both seem to set just a shade under the pocket. I just measured my .223 reloads and the C.O.L is 2.250 with a 55gr bullet. They function fine in my G.I mags with room to spare.....
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Old 12-27-2010, 5:46 PM
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One other thing about your C.O.L. Are you getting malfunctions because you suspect your bullet tips are dragging? What kind of mags are you using? Some mags are just plain JUNK. I like to slap the mags in the palm of my hand to seat the loaded rounds to the back of the mag before inserting...
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Old 12-27-2010, 6:44 PM
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GeoffLinder GeoffLinder is offline
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All proper patterned AR mags will allow reliable feeding with COAL up to 2.250 to 2.255, even 2.260-2.265 will function in most mags bullet tip type depending.

2.235ish is just fine for 55gr ball. Factory stuff usually goes about 2.220-2.225 depending on bullet profile. I load all my 55gr stuff at right around 2.235". SMK69's get 2.245 and SMK77's get 2.250 and they all rapid fire fine just fine from lot's of various USGI and Thermold mags.

Primers are fine seated below case head, IF they have been properly seated, firmly, but gently with just the right feel.

As previously mentioned, if you smash them you will see that they are no longer rounded at the edges and may even be dented or smeared.

Remember, proper primer ignition requires a primer to already be seated fully as far as it will go in the primer pocket, no matter how deep the primer head is compared to case head. Firing pins will do the job just fine here as long as you are doing the job just fine when you seat them

Last edited by GeoffLinder; 12-27-2010 at 6:49 PM..
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Old 12-27-2010, 6:58 PM
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GeoffLinder GeoffLinder is offline
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Oh, a tip on AR mags. Any good USGI mag body is fine if the feed lip dims are good, there are no cracks or chips in the feed lips and they drop free when you press eject button.

Throw the followers that were in the mags away and replace with MagPul anti-dive followers.

If you really wanna' do it up with your mags, call Beven at Grams Engineering and ask him to provide you with some of his replacement magazine springs, he is a MagPul dealer too so might as well one-stop-shop. Might as well replace those old flat metal basepads with the MagPul stuff too :-)

At this point all that is left to do to insure solid mag functioning on an AR is to make sure your mags all fit properly. They should snap in easily when empty under a closed bolt and even when full should snick in place under a closed bolt without slamming. Just a slightly firm push should always get the job done or your mag catch needs to be stoned down.

If you have to hit your mags on the bottom to keep them from dropping out, you need to stone off the top of your mag catch a few thousandths until loaded mags fit without hammering. This needs to be a nice easy snap in place fit without a lot of pressure exerted.

This directly contributes to reliability by reducing the pressure the top rounds in loaded mags exert as drag on the underside of the bolt carrier, thereby maintaining bolt carrier speed

BTW, you can find specs for feed lip gaps HERE about halfway down the page.

Last edited by GeoffLinder; 12-27-2010 at 7:06 PM..
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Old 12-28-2010, 5:24 AM
trg-s338 trg-s338 is offline
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Thank you for your responses, gentlemen. I guess I just won't worry about it anymore. I will have to further investigate on the mag length. I'll have to check out a friends Magpul mags for another reference on the COL that it would take. A COL of 2.5 sure would be nice.

Manny
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Old 12-28-2010, 5:32 AM
Sheldon Sheldon is offline
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The 2.450" OAL is probably heavier weight bullets loaded to touch the lands on the barrel and won't fit in any mag. They are a single feed direct into the chamber proposition. It is long range ammo loaded out for maximum performance.
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Old 12-28-2010, 5:53 AM
trg-s338 trg-s338 is offline
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I just read somewhere that Wolf small rifle primers have been found to be 0.002" shorter than most American made small rifle primers. That makes me feel better.
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