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  #1  
Old 12-15-2010, 6:06 AM
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Default Chiappa Rhino CA exemption

I'm talking to Valkyrie Arms about the possibility of getting the Chiappa Rhino in California on a single shot conversion/reversion. They say that, if there are enough buyers, they might be willing to absorb the cost of the conversion. This presumes there are no unforeseen mechanical complications.

For those of you who don't already know, the Chiappa Rhino is a revolver that fires from the lower cylinder - much like the Mateba. With a low bore axis the muzzle flip is minimal - even with .357 in a snub. It's also pretty cool looking. Since they're presently off-roster the only hope of getting one in the state is with a single shot conversion/exemption.







I'm trying to gauge interest right now so that I can give Valkyrie a sense of the potential market.

I just want to know if you're seriously interested. If so I'd like to know if you're serious enough to drop a down payment on one. I'm not asking for money right now ... just gauging interest.
I'll be the first on record to say I definitely will buy one.

Thank you
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Last edited by dascoyne; 12-15-2010 at 7:00 AM..
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Old 12-15-2010, 6:54 AM
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Why don't they just submit it for testing? Seems like that would be easier than building a single shot version. For that matter they could covert the Rhino to single action and include or make available double action parts.
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Old 12-15-2010, 7:08 AM
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Making it SAO would defeat the purpose of that defensive-built weapon. I wouldn't even want one in SAO. I would go DAO or SA/DA only but otherwise the point of it is kind of dumb.
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Old 12-15-2010, 7:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombadillo View Post
Making it SAO would defeat the purpose of that defensive-built weapon. I wouldn't even want one in SAO. I would go DAO or SA/DA only but otherwise the point of it is kind of dumb.
You miss the point. A single action conversion would allow legal transfer in CA. After which it can be legally converted back to it's original form.

The only problem is that, in small numbers, it's generally not cost effective to go through the trouble.
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  #5  
Old 12-15-2010, 7:33 AM
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This is one gun I've been interested in the most. Its too bad Valk Arms is up north.
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Old 12-15-2010, 7:36 AM
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How much is it?
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Old 12-15-2010, 7:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOEKILLA View Post
How much is it?
I'd be curious about price as well. As it stands, I think they run around the $600 range in other states. I can imagine Valk Arms would have to add a little more to the price to make any kind of profit.
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Old 12-15-2010, 7:47 AM
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That is one ugly looking futuristic space gun....
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2010, 7:54 AM
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The engineering is sound. Was wondering how long it would take for someone to lower the height of the barrel axis even further. The results speak for themselves. In theory, on a revolver you could engineer the cylinder and barrel to be mid-point in front of the grip. It would be a strange firearm. I would buy one, it's size makes it a solid CCW choice, in a nice cal too. Though I am moving out of state soon and that would take me off the list of buyers for a single shot conversion, etc.

Last edited by meaty-btz; 12-15-2010 at 7:56 AM..
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Old 12-15-2010, 8:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dascoyne View Post
You miss the point. A single action conversion would allow legal transfer in CA. After which it can be legally converted back to it's original form.

The only problem is that, in small numbers, it's generally not cost effective to go through the trouble.
No, I didn't miss the point, but changing something fundamentally about the gun outside of doing a single shot could really screw things up. I wouldn't trust anybody doing a single action only conversion on something like that. I'm just paranoid about defensive guns and keeping them really at factory settings though. Single shot may work but that could be interesting on a revolver.
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Old 12-15-2010, 8:25 AM
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Also, reading from range reports on this gun from other forums.. the recoil (lack of) is amazing especially when compared to guns of similar sizes shooting hot ammo.
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2010, 8:31 AM
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Remember there are two key 12133PC exemptions to DROSing non-Rostered handguns - the single-shot pistol exemption and the single-action revolver exemption. Remember that these exemptions come with additional dimensional compliance constraints regarding minimum barrel length and min. overall length (which differ between the two separate entities).

It is not that likely this Chiappa could be gracefully/cost-effectively be converted to a single-shot pistol without significant expen$ive work. (5-of-6 chambers blocked in a nonrotating cylinder, extending the barrel length without screwing up finish, etc.).

However, single-action revolver status may well be achievable by removing the DA sear, if the action internals is similar to S&W or Taurus revolvers. (Reliable reports have it that some Colt revolvers incl. Pythons can be so modified as well.) Remember that single-action revolver status just means that the cocking action and the firing action are decoupled, and require two separate, independent user actions - it has nothing to do with whether or not the gun "looks like a cowboy wheelgun".

Quote:
Originally Posted by bombadillo
No, I didn't miss the point, but changing something fundamentally about the gun
outside of doing a single shot could really screw things up. I wouldn't trust anybody doing a single
action only conversion on something like that. I'm just paranoid about defensive guns and keeping
them really at factory settings though. Single shot may work but that could be interesting on a revolver.
Your concerns are misplaced. Typical single-action revolver conversion involves mere removal of one internal action part (typically the "DA sear"), whose removal decouples cocking and firing actions. After the gun is DROSed, the 10 day wait period passes and the owner takes possession, he can install the relevant part again. The big risk is hamfisted marking up of gun's appearance - either thru screw heads being damaged by poor quality (non-hollow ground) screwdrivers, or the sideplate edge being marred.
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Last edited by bwiese; 12-15-2010 at 8:35 AM..
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2010, 8:33 AM
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Find out a ballpark figure for the single shot revolvers and let us know, I think that would help people decide if they are in or out. If it is going to be $700+ IDK if people would go for that or not.
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Old 12-15-2010, 8:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombadillo View Post
No, I didn't miss the point, but changing something fundamentally about the gun outside of doing a single shot could really screw things up. I wouldn't trust anybody doing a single action only conversion on something like that. I'm just paranoid about defensive guns and keeping them really at factory settings though. Single shot may work but that could be interesting on a revolver.
Converting a DA/SA revolver to SAO is really very easy and much less involved that a single shot conversion.

S&W used to offer their M-14 in either DA/SA or SAO, it was only a difference of the hammer...granted converting it back to DA/SA would require fitting the hammer and trigger (or having one pre-fitted).

The problem in this case is that I don't think the Rhino would qualify under the SAO exemption due to it's size...I believe there is a minimum length
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  #15  
Old 12-15-2010, 8:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Remember there are two key 12133PC exemptions to DROSing non-Rostered handguns - the single-shot pistol exemption and the single-action revolver exemption. Remember that these exemptions come with additional dimensional compliance constraints regarding minimum barrel length and min. overall length (which differ between the two separate entities).

It is not that likely this Chiappa could be gracefully/cost-effectively be converted to a single-shot pistol without significant expen$ive work. (5-of-6 chambers blocked in a nonrotating cylinder, extending the barrel length without screwing up finish, etc.).

However, single-action revolver status may well be achievable by removing the DA sear, if the action internals is similar to S&W or Taurus revolvers. (Reliable reports have it that some Colt revolvers incl. Pythons can be so modified as well.) Remember that single-action revolver status just means that the cocking action and the firing action are decoupled, and require two separate, independent user actions - it has nothing to do with whether or not the gun "looks like a cowboy wheelgun".
That's a very interesting proposition - one that I will certainly discuss with Tim at Valkyrie. The only problem is that we don't have a unit in hand to figure this out. I wouldn't think the barrel length issue would be a big deal.
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  #16  
Old 12-15-2010, 8:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mmepiphany View Post
Converting a DA/SA revolver to SAO is really very easy and much less involved that a single shot conversion.

S&W used to offer their M-14 in either DA/SA or SAO, it was only a difference of the hammer...granted converting it back to DA/SA would require fitting the hammer and trigger (or having one pre-fitted).

The problem in this case is that I don't think the Rhino would qualify under the SAO exemption due to it's size...I believe there is a minimum length
off the top of my head since I was looking at single action exemptions I believe it is a min 3" barrel and something like 7" OAL
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Old 12-15-2010, 8:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Z_ View Post
Find out a ballpark figure for the single shot revolvers and let us know, I think that would help people decide if they are in or out. If it is going to be $700+ IDK if people would go for that or not.
Exactly what I thought too. I can't imagine it being as cheap as simply "single shotting" a semi. This seems to require more actual work with the gun's internals vs fixing a magazine and replacing a barrel.

I really hope Chiappa just enters it for testing and gets it on CA roster. I've read some representative stating it will be entered for testing (guess which is why they had a handling showcase in San Diego), but that might just be either hearsay or a sales rep garnering interest. Would like more reliable sources to clarify (I've personally sent em an email and haven't gotten a reply).
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Old 12-15-2010, 8:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bombadillo View Post
No, I didn't miss the point, but changing something fundamentally about the gun outside of doing a single shot could really screw things up. I wouldn't trust anybody doing a single action only conversion on something like that. I'm just paranoid about defensive guns and keeping them really at factory settings though. Single shot may work but that could be interesting on a revolver.

You wouldn't be re-inventing the gun just removing the double action sear through DROS, once done install sear and the gun is back to factory specs. Single shot exemption on this revolver would be a hell of a lot of work. Also Valk Arms has an 07FFL I would certainly hope they would know how to remove and install parts.
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Old 12-15-2010, 9:26 AM
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Default Just for general interest..

I called the Manufacture in Dayton Ohio. They are busy as can be getting stuff out for the holidays. *(and the Production department isn't answering the phone) I did get someone.

I briefly explained the Roster Situation here in LaLa Land and they were well aware of it. I also asked if it would be possible to make the weapon single action only for the purpose of importing into California......and later, a gunsmith could install parts to make the weapon normal again....no answer; but I am supposed to call after the holidays to talk to "Ron" the President.

I wonder if that is one way to get around the roster....maybe we will find out.

Worth a shot...(Pun Intended )

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Old 12-15-2010, 9:37 AM
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Somewhere around the house I have an article about the gun that, if I remember correctly, discusses how different the internals are on this piece compared to typical revolver design. Not sure if it would affect the conversion -- but it might.
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:07 AM
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It would be harder to get the barrel length up to 3" as the barrel in inside the lower frame
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:21 AM
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Sorry, it's 7 1/2 OAL

"12133. (a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity
with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets
any of the following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or
relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of
Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and
barrel are assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and
barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for
importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions
of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18
of the United States Code. "

Currently if you can make it a SAO you need 1" on the barrel which would bring it to 3" and the correct OAL of 7.5"

What is weird is on their website
http://chiappafirearms.com/product/725

It shows

Reference Description Caliber No. Shots Barrel Length Total Length Action Weight
CF340-078 (US) Rhino 200DS .357Mag 6 2" - 5 cm 6,5" - 16,4 cm Single & Double 1,54 Lbs - 700 gr
CF340-086 (US) Rhino 200D .357Mag 6 2" - 5 cm 6,5" - 16,4 cm Single 1,54 Lbs - 700 gr

So it shows the 200D is a SAO? but when you google it, it shows up as DAO

Last edited by _Z_; 12-15-2010 at 10:27 AM..
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:57 AM
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7-1/2" OAL isn't hard to do with ugly "custom" plywood grips shaped like an L...
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Old 12-15-2010, 1:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner Nerd View Post
7-1/2" OAL isn't hard to do with ugly "custom" plywood grips shaped like an L...
Yup but you gotta worry about the barrel so you are getting an extra inch on the barrel so it's all good.
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Old 12-15-2010, 1:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Z_ View Post
Yup but you gotta worry about the barrel so you are getting an extra inch on the barrel so it's all good.
http://chiappafirearms.com/products/75
They do come in more sizes than just 2". The 4" and 6" model also looks like it has a removable barrel/front sight assembly. I wouldn't be surprised if you could somehow attach a barrel extension on the 2" model at the front sight pins hanging over the muzzle. It's ugly, but if it works, then it works. They'd have to examine one in person to see if it's even feasible.
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Old 12-15-2010, 1:14 PM
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I'm interested, but I have read that the trigger pull is very heavy (in DA mode). Would want to know more about that before I "bite the bullet" .
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Old 12-15-2010, 1:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner Nerd View Post
http://chiappafirearms.com/products/75
They do come in more sizes than just 2". The 4" and 6" model also looks like it has a removable barrel/front sight assembly. I wouldn't be surprised if you could somehow attach a barrel extension on the 2" model at the front sight pins hanging over the muzzle. It's ugly, but if it works, then it works. They'd have to examine one in person to see if it's even feasible.
I just assumed we were talking about the snub nose one but you are right there are different barrel lengths.

Maybe some kind of el cheapo compensator will work?
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Old 12-15-2010, 3:00 PM
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I'm interested, but I have read that the trigger pull is very heavy (in DA mode). Would want to know more about that before I "bite the bullet" .
I heard about the heavy DA pull, too. Some say it's not that bad. In any case I read that Chiappa plans to release an 8-10lb DA drop in trigger mod.
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:21 PM
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There are 3 snubs on gunbroker right now for about $700
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:39 PM
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Is there any reason Chiappa can't add it to the roster?
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:52 PM
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Is there any reason Chiappa can't add it to the roster?
as long ast it would pass the drop tests, only the costs to test them, and the yearly fee to list them.
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:56 PM
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as long ast it would pass the drop tests, only the costs to test them, and the yearly fee to list them.
Wanna start up a collection? I'll toss in $20 bucks if it gets these on the list.
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:03 AM
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I'd buy 1 or 2 if the price is right.
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jidokenju View Post
Wanna start up a collection? I'll toss in $20 bucks if it gets these on the list.
You also have to take account the 1 or 2 you have to send in for testing too I believe. So that's an extra $1500 plus whatever fees.
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Old 12-16-2010, 4:22 AM
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Actually they need 3 units of each configuration (e.g. Barrel length) for testing.
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  #36  
Old 12-16-2010, 5:06 AM
jidokenju jidokenju is offline
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While I was mostly joking, is it possible for a third party to submit the firearm or does the manufacturer itself need to submit it? I wonder if there would be a way to make money by getting pre-orders and then submitting the gun for testing.
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  #37  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:24 AM
TangoCharlie TangoCharlie is offline
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http://grantcunningham.com/blog_file...b060c-764.html

Good info on the Rhino inner workings...
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  #38  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:26 AM
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gorenut gorenut is offline
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Well.. all this might not be necessary. Just got an email back from them:
Quote:
Dear "gorenut",

Thank you for your interest in Chiappa Firearms! Yes, we have submitted our Rhino to CA DOJ, we anticipate a response in 4-6 months, apparently the process is a little lengthy.

Thanks again!
From: gthielen@omnispear.com on behalf of "gorenut"
My email was sent to them straight on Chiappa's site.

Last edited by gorenut; 12-16-2010 at 10:30 AM..
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  #39  
Old 12-16-2010, 12:28 PM
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cntrolsguy cntrolsguy is online now
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Good info gorenut, Nice going.
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  #40  
Old 12-16-2010, 5:07 PM
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dascoyne dascoyne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorenut View Post
Well.. all this might not be necessary. Just got an email back from them:


My email was sent to them straight on Chiappa's site.
Thanks Gorenut! You made my day/week/month!
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2010 Black GT Premium. 3.73 gears. Factory Track Pack.
Saleen VI.5 supercharger (500 hp kit). Chicane stb. JLT Oil Seperators. C&L CAI. JDM Tuned.
J&M Billet LCA's. J&M adjustable panhard bar. BMR relocation brackets. Steeda Sport Springs. Koni STR.T's. J&M caster camber plates.
19" 2011 Ford GT500 SVTPP wheels. Nitto INVO 255/35/19, 285/35/19.
Factory Spoiler Delete. Electronics Package. Security Package. HID.
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