Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Curio & Relic/Black Powder
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-14-2006, 3:09 PM
chickenfried's Avatar
chickenfried chickenfried is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a Chevelle, down by the river
Posts: 7,149
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default Enfield 2A .308

Anybody have any experience with these rifles?

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/New_Rifles_.html
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by victor1echo View Post
Hollywood is satan!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-14-2006, 3:56 PM
TonyNorCal's Avatar
TonyNorCal TonyNorCal is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,438
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

A few problems exist with these...

1.) They have 12 round mags which aren't legal to import.

2.) They're not safe to fire .308 commercial ammo in (even in small doses). And, they are likely at the edge of what's safe for 7.62 Nato. I had a long talk with Dennis Kroh about this (owner of Empire Arms, definetly knows his stuff and is a straight shooter).

Here's what he said...

When these first arrived on our shores they sold 20. Out of the 20, 16 developed excessive headspace issues (some after firing only a box or two of commercial .308. So, 16 became wall hangers. He is also aware of one catastrophic failure that caused a serious injury (luckily not from a rifle he sold, but at a local range). Now, to their credit AIM does say use only 7.62 NATO ammo. However, Dennis feels that even this is pushing the limit for these rifles. Contrary to what some say these were not made out of any special steel.

Even if you already have mags I would pass on these. Sometimes one's safety is worth more than a 169 dollar rifle.

3.) One more thing...these being less than 50 years of age...require an FFL 1.


From a post Dennis made...

Actually we neither buy nor sell Ishapore Enfields chambered in 7.62 NATO.
We had done so when they were first imported, but over HALF of the ones we bought and sold during that period ended up with headspace problems that relegated them to "wallhanger" status after firing as little as one box of commercial .308 Winchester ammo in them.

The first sign of trouble was that the extractor broke off and the owners wanted to know where they could obtain a replacement extractor.

Further inspection of their rifle found that the headspace of every one of the suspect rifles (though they had been previously checked by us before selling them) had been stretched beyond FIELD limits and were no longer safe to fire (it was the extreme bulging of the base of the case that caused the ejector to break).

I have personally seen one person (thank GOD he didn't buy it from us) at a local range, get severely injured in the groin after his Model 2A1 Ishapore Enfield had a intense gas-rupture and "let go" when firing it, blowing the loaded magazine under high-pressure out of the rifle and landing between his legs.

This "accident" required major hospitalization and surgery to repair his grievious and painful injury. This guy was so CLEVER that even after the extractor broke-off of his Ishapore Model 2A1 rifle (hello. . . serious WARNING SIGN there. . . ) he continued to shoot it at the range while simply knocking out the empty case after every shot by running a cleaning-rod down the barrel rather than attempt to purchase another extractor!

Little wonder that his wife forbid him from owning even a single firearm after that experience (we ended up buying every gun he owned or will ever own from her).

Nahhh. . . we won't find or sell you one of these rifles. . . we like you too much!


------------------
Denny Kroh, owner, EMPIRE ARMS
email: kroh@empirearms.com
website: http://www.empirearms.com

Last edited by TonyNorCal; 07-14-2006 at 4:04 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-14-2006, 3:58 PM
grammaton76's Avatar
grammaton76 grammaton76 is offline
Super Moderator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 9,540
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyNorCal
A few problems exist with these...

1.) They have 12 round mags which aren't legal to import.

2.) They're not safe to fire .308 commercial ammo in (even in small doses). And, they are likely at the edge of what's safe for 7.62 Nato. I had a long talk with Dennis Kroh about this (owner of Empire Arms, definetly knows his stuff and is a straight shooter).
So, what you're saying is, that this is the only rifle in the world which PREFERS the under-powered Indian surplus ammo?
__________________
Primary author of gunwiki.net - 'like' it on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Gunwiki/242578512591 to see whenever new content gets added!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-14-2006, 9:15 PM
Kestryll's Avatar
Kestryll Kestryll is offline
Head Janitor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Occupied Reseda, PRK
Posts: 20,017
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Read this, it debunks a fair bit of the myth about Ishapore Enfields.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/oddshot2/index.asp
__________________
NRA Patron Life Member / CRPA Life Member / SAF Life Member
Calguns.net an incorported entity - President.
The Calguns Shooting Sports Assoc. - Vice President.
DONATE TO NRA-ILA, CGSSA, AND CRPAF NOW!
Opinions posted in this account are my own and unless specifically stated as such are not the approved position of Calguns.net, CGSSA or CGF.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-14-2006, 9:24 PM
TonyNorCal's Avatar
TonyNorCal TonyNorCal is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,438
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

I'll go with Dennis Kroh's expertise over the guy at Surplus Rifle....but shoot as you will...it's your life and limb.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-14-2006, 9:52 PM
ivanimal's Avatar
ivanimal ivanimal is offline
Janitors assistant
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: East Bay
Posts: 13,759
iTrader: 176 / 100%
Blog Entries: 2
Default

I own an Ishipore Enfield. It is the same feel as my 303 made in Australia. The only difference is the baked enamel finish. You have to be really careful as to what you use as a cleaner. The good thing is that you dont have to worry about using corrosive ammo if you buy modern NATO ammo. I paid 300 for mine at a gun show in the 90's. I have not taken it out in years as it sits in my moms safe in SF. I say buy it or regret it.
__________________
"I would kill for a Nobel peace prize." Steven Wright"
Board Member CGSSA Donate now!
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-15-2006, 5:29 PM
Pthfndr's Avatar
Pthfndr Pthfndr is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns. Near Tahoe
Posts: 3,690
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyNorCal
I'll go with Dennis Kroh's expertise over the guy at Surplus Rifle
Why do you believe one to be more credible than the other?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-15-2006, 5:37 PM
JPglee1's Avatar
JPglee1 JPglee1 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Victorville, high dez, SoCal
Posts: 3,032
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grammaton76
So, what you're saying is, that this is the only rifle in the world which PREFERS the under-powered Indian surplus ammo?

Or WOLF with its massive 2400FPS haha


J
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-16-2006, 12:22 AM
Boomer1961 Boomer1961 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 788
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pthfndr
Why do you believe one to be more credible than the other?
Because the dang thing shot back and almost killed the fella. Did you read the feedback. Either true or not, just the risk is to great to take the chance.

This is Indian, and they have never really gotten on track with their military industrial capability.

They are hindered by the usual massive corruption seen in third world nations, the cottage industry type of production where standards of excellence are hit or miss, plus their military by circumstance has a much lower standard for acceptance, and so on and so on.

Remember these are the same folks where their air force pilots die by the scores each year in accidents, where they are far more are killed by these accidents than in all the wars including the war of independence. In 2003 alone they had nearly 100 crashes. Their MIG 21 pilots have mutinied on several occasions because they did not wish to die during training. More than half their MIG 21 series aircraft have been lost in accidents (thats hundreds and hundreds) and they are usually fatal. Their aeronautic industry just does not have the capability to perform the maintenance or manufacture spare parts or the ability to produce a better aircraft. The MIG 21 losses can be compared to the US thunderchief losses during the Vietnam War where over half the aircraft of this type that were produced were shot down, except no one is shooting at the Indian MIG's when they burst into flames in mid air. This has been considered an acceptable risk by India in order to have a high performance jet fighter plane, Do you doubt they would not do the same for a locally made rifle for the police for the lower caste.

The same goes for their small arms, their military vehicles, their missiles and planes also having a similar history to the MIG's.

I just hope with McDonald's doing a trial Beta testing of having these folks in India taking our drive through order and typing it on their computer and having it go on through the INTERNET to go on the TelePrompTer for the illegal Mexican Cook and underage high school drop out cashier does not get screwed up like the Indian Military Industrial Complex does with the stuff they make for the Indian Military.

I read in the paper that the McDonald's in Brentwood CA is one of these McDonald's where you will be talking to a fella in India to take your order. Funny thing is their English will probably be better than the illegal Mexican who took your order before......the world just keeps getting smaller and smaller.


Now then....
The ad says....
"...Their engineers made design enhancements to the No1Mk3 Enfield by utilizing superior 1960's technology in steel manufacturing and tooling when compared with the turn of the century processes used to make the .303cal. Enfields. ......"

Funny thing is India has never been known, especially back in the 1960's, for superior steel manufacture and tooling. We know that was the Japanese and Germans since WWII that have made these great strides in steel manufacture (and maybe a few others like Russia). India has become knowns for cheap inexpensive recycled steel now a days but back then.....they were not even known for that. No doubt inferior steels may well have been used on weapons made for their military, and possibly includes at least some of these firearms.

Now the same folks that buy a cheap and dangerous surplus weapon to have for a every day shooter are the same folks that buy a VULCAN attempted replica firearm. Maybe that VULCAN owner is Indian (ooops! I should not insult the Indians by saying such a thing as associating them with VULCAN. I am sure ALL the firearms made in India are of better quality than a VULCAN).

The add also says...
".... They were shot little and ...."

Well most military surplus arms run the gamut from new, to arsenal reworks, to great condition, to shooter grade. I think it telling that you do not see any of these in shooter grade, maybe because they never lasted that long. Maybe before they make it to shooter grade they blow up or just fall apart. Maybe they were under orders to not shoot this thing unless they absolutely had to and the risk of not shooting was greater than the risk of shooting.

Now to own a piece of historical importance, a nice conversation piece, a little piece of India, or for the few who are true shooting enthusiast and understand how to safely shoot such a weapon (having the time, patience, training, and money to buy/load appropriate cartridges) I can understand. Lord knows I have several such firearms that I can not go out and shoot day after day and would be risking my life to do so. Sometimes owning a dangerous weapon like that Japanese WWII pistol that goes off when you bump the side of the safety while holstering it is 90% the fun of owning such a weapon just to be able to show it off and complain about it.

This one may well be worth buying just because of the controversy and the heated discussions that it can generate and also seeing how many folks step back a hundred feet when you shoot it at the range versus how many folks saying "I am not afraid, let me shoot it, all that INTERNET yakking about this is just a bunch of hogwash...." It will surely get the tongues of many wagging at the range.

There is nothing wrong by going with the reputation or folk lore about a firearm. You are playing with your life and is it really worth a $169 rifle just because you have an itch to own it due to the nice looking ad and great price. If so I have a Ford Pinto with a full tank of gas to sell ya.


I would not be surprised by the way the Indian arms industry is that some of these maybe great shooters while others have a multitude of problems like that head spacing deal as they do not have the system controls in their manufacturing processes that we have in the West. They have come a long ways in the last two decades but back in the 1960's I know they had their problems.

If you want an every day cheap shooter, pass on this one as there are too many other fine inexpensive firearms out there.

If you do purchase this then keep us up to date and document the head spacing carefully and don't forget to duck when you shoot it, also it may pay to put a bullet proof vest over your crotch if you plan to make more babies or at least enjoy practicing making them with the wife.

Well my fingers ran away tonight, sorry for the long post. I should have never taken typing in high school.

TAKE CARE EVERYONE!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-16-2006, 7:50 AM
Pthfndr's Avatar
Pthfndr Pthfndr is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns. Near Tahoe
Posts: 3,690
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1961
Because the dang thing shot back and almost killed the fella. Did you read the feedback. Either true or not, just the risk is to great to take the chance.

-snip-

Well my fingers ran away tonight, sorry for the long post. I should have never taken typing in high school.

TAKE CARE EVERYONE!
Dang guy, a lot of writing and you didn't answer my question. Ted Duncan is a regular contributor to SurplusRifles.com. He also says he spoke with Ian Skinnerton, who is a known authority on Enfields, and who said he had no personal knowledge of any catastrophic failures of the Ishapur rifles.

Any surplus rifle should be properly inspected before being fired. No matter where it comes from.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-16-2006, 2:14 PM
ivanimal's Avatar
ivanimal ivanimal is offline
Janitors assistant
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: East Bay
Posts: 13,759
iTrader: 176 / 100%
Blog Entries: 2
Default

I put a few hundred rounds through mine a total of six times, the funy thing is these rifles shoot best when dirty. I was gettin 5-6 inch groups at 100 yards with a few really obvious fliers. Once a few rounds went through, 100 or so I would clean it. The groups had shrunk to about 3-4 inches and fewer fliers by then. Once cleaned they would open up again. Dont quote me on group size as I was usually shooting 3 or 4 different milsurps on the same day but I am sure of the groups getting smaller. No other rifle with the exception of the Carcano ever did that for me.
__________________
"I would kill for a Nobel peace prize." Steven Wright"
Board Member CGSSA Donate now!
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-22-2006, 4:59 PM
STAGE 2 STAGE 2 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,841
iTrader: 28 / 100%
Default

I'm confused, after the numerous articles that have been posted on the differences between .308 and 7.62, why would someone who is an expert on firearms go ahead and shoot .308 through a gun that it wasn't designed for?

For the record, there are several gents who are quite knowledgable on some of the other firearms boards who are picking these things up 2 or 3 at a time. Quite odd if they are as dangerous as stated.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-28-2006, 8:10 AM
lpspinner's Avatar
lpspinner lpspinner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,085
iTrader: 69 / 99%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyNorCal
I'll go with Dennis Kroh's expertise over the guy at Surplus Rifle....but shoot as you will...it's your life and limb.
First off, my OWN personal opinion of him is very low. Something about him rubs me the wrong way and when the Russian Captured K98's first appeared I read one of his post offering his "selection" for sale. He came across as arrogant and that his stuff that comes from his behind don't stink.

Now in his defense he did post and apologized. He didn't think his ad was that arrogant. Apparently I wasn't the only one to think so. iirc, this was on Gunsnet a long while back. Ever since then, his opinions are his.

Now back to the Enfield. My buddy has one and we've gone for extensive range sessions with it. The rifle is still intact. In fact I think we were shooting South African Surplus back then.

I now own a beater on that someone tried to convert to a jungle carbine, so once I get the barrel recrowned, I'll be shooting that.

Seriously, if they were really bad, do you think guys like AIM, Interordnance, Century would still be in business? With this sue happy culture of ours, if one exploded, you or your family would be suing them. And if they were all bad... you can multiply this.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-28-2006, 8:24 PM
footdoc's Avatar
footdoc footdoc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 119
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

I got a 2A1 earlier this year, and I have been shooting SA .308 through it for the last six months without any issue. It is an accurate rifle with silky smooth action.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-08-2006, 5:26 AM
screech screech is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyNorCal
I'll go with Dennis Kroh's expertise over the guy at Surplus Rifle....but shoot as you will...it's your life and limb.
I have delt with Dennis Kroh in the past. From my experience he is a liar. He over rates his guns condition and when a problem arrises you will certainly get into a heated argument.
He is in the same class as Tom Forrest and David B.
Just my experience. I call his overpriced junk "junk" and his discriptions "lies".
If he was selling these 308 Enfield 2A's, they would be the greatest thing out there!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-08-2006, 9:34 AM
JesseXXX's Avatar
JesseXXX JesseXXX is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lomita, RPK
Posts: 770
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default Okay....

What about .303 No 4 .... specifically the U.S. Property ones....? I got 2 of them.... I haven't fired them yet...

I did have a Brit .303 that the casing basically "welded" itself into the chamber... I had to slam the bolt up and back to extract... the casing looked "wiedl" as if the metal was "pulled" with force.... The gunsmith told me the head-space was blowm-gone... the rifle was returned to Big 5... no questions asked....

Last edited by JesseXXX; 12-08-2006 at 9:40 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-08-2006, 2:47 PM
TonyNorCal's Avatar
TonyNorCal TonyNorCal is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,438
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Well, sorry some of you have had bad experiences with Dennis. I've had the opposite, but obviously people have different experiences.

I'n purchased about 5 rifles from him (all through the 'new stuff' list) and have been pleased.

I know a number of serious (far more serious and knowledgeable than me) collectors over on gunboards think highly of him.

I've also found him to be very helpful on the phone and more than once I've spent a good half hour or so just asking him question about various milsurps...many were noobish questions...and he was patient and helpful and I didn't buy anything during those calls...nor was I pressured to.

But, that's just my experience. And, experiences vary...just like they do with gun shops...some like certain shops and some have bad experiences there.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-08-2006, 2:59 PM
saki302's Avatar
saki302 saki302 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,118
iTrader: 89 / 100%
Default

If the indian enfields were that dangerous, they would be pulled, and you'd hear a lot more about failures. So far, no one has produced an example of a blown Enfield 7.62, or one damaged from firing that I know of. I'd love to examine photos of one.

I have one which is one of the cleanest I've ever seen- the baked finish might be new, as it looks fabulous! I think they are parkerized underneath.

-Dave
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-09-2006, 4:06 PM
whatever's Avatar
whatever whatever is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: SiliValley
Posts: 281
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I've owned two of the 2A rifles. Both can do 2 inches at 100 yards with good ammo. The one I have now is scoped.

The thing about the headspace is some people don't understand that you need to use a FIELD guage to check them. They will undoubtably fail a commercial NO-GO but it doesn't matter.

They have "military" chambers, meaining a bit over-sized to accomodate a variety of ammo types and conditions. Mine will not close on a Field, but just barely. Yet there are no signs of excessive headspace on the fired cartridges.

No backed out primers (even on handloads without crimped primers), no case bulging, no sticky bolt handle, etc.

Buy one or don't. However in my personal experience they are fun and accurate rifles.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-10-2006, 1:33 AM
griffon griffon is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default ishy 308, response

I've got close to 1000 rounds through 3 of them, including a gibbs jungle carbine that I loved, and have had no problems with any of them. The comments first posted here seem to be completely at odds with what I've seen and heard on forums. In 10 years I haven't seen one situation reported about an exploding 308, and in fact there are good sources of info on nato versus winchester and chamber pressures, and also the steel type.
I just bought one a few weeks ago and want two more, reason? you can't buy 303 these days without spending gold, and nato ammo is all over for cheap, it shoots good too, also, the guns shoot good and the price is right.
Look for the price on 308s to continue climbing, two years ago they could be had almost anywhere for $100, now $150 is a very cheap price in Los Angeles, and over on our classifieds there's one for $300, that sort of price is becoming typical.

Got 308's anybody?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-10-2006, 7:27 AM
Michael303's Avatar
Michael303 Michael303 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 251
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I have an Ishapor 2A1 and have shot hundreds of rounds with no problems or headspace issues. The 2A1 and L39A1 came in real handy when I couldn’t find enough .303 to feed my other Enfields. As for head space issues, I’ve checked mine before and after and have found no excessive issues.

With milsurps, there seems to be a large “that gun is junk” mentality, especially when you are faced with people who genuinely believe that spending more money equates to a better firearm. Granted, Ishapor (formerly Rifle Factory India) is on the Subcontentent, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t using tools to ensure proper fit and assembly.

Until I see a legitimate gripe or warning about this particular batch (not just a derogatory rant about how bad cheap rifles are) I’d say grab one, check to ensure headspace, and then shoot it until you get tired.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-10-2006, 7:54 PM
griffon griffon is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default ishy info

here's a reference'; I hope.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/7_62vs308.htm
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-10-2006, 9:58 PM
gose's Avatar
gose gose is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF Bay Area (San Mateo)
Posts: 3,882
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

Won one today, so I guess I'll find out soon if there are any issues
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-11-2006, 10:01 AM
tteng tteng is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Fremont, East bay
Posts: 1,913
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

I bought one from AIMS (comes w/ 10rd mag for Calif.customer) about 6mo ago. Shot it w/ 7.62mm South African surplus (about 40rd), action smooth and flawless. However, the grouping was poor, 4-6" at 50yrd.
After dissembly, I found the action bedding (the wood underneath the action) was half-rotted and spongy. I did some woodwork (clean/file/sand/JBweld) to repair the bedding, but have not shot it since because of other rifle interest.
BTW, it is not C&R, so FFL1 is required.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-12-2006, 9:38 AM
Michael303's Avatar
Michael303 Michael303 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 251
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Tteng-

You'll also want to make sure the fore end stud and spring are in place. I've bought a few No1 MkIII's and 2A1's where somebody had removed that piece. It’s easy to lose, and easy to replace. Most importantly, its absence will make for a pretty poor grouping.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-12-2006, 11:20 AM
saki302's Avatar
saki302 saki302 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,118
iTrader: 89 / 100%
Default

The new ones I've seen are in much worse condition than the older imports- mostly as far as the wood and bore goes.

What does the 10rd mag look like, is it a modified 12?

-Dave
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-12-2006, 12:22 PM
tteng tteng is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Fremont, East bay
Posts: 1,913
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

The 10-rd mag is aftermarket, looks like the 12-rd mag. It feeds fine.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-10-2007, 9:20 PM
gazzavc's Avatar
gazzavc gazzavc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Down by the "S" bend
Posts: 963
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Tell you what they are good for though.

Reenactors.

We love 'em. Cheap .308 Austrian or British blanks, makes it economical for the reenactor on a budget. You can buy a case of 2000 blanks for less than $70 delivered. That's .03c per round. With the equivalent .303 blanks costing over .35c a round its a no brainer.

Cheers

Gaz
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-11-2007, 8:44 AM
wheelgunner's Avatar
wheelgunner wheelgunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Francisco East Bay
Posts: 178
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by saki302 View Post
The new ones I've seen are in much worse condition than the older imports- mostly as far as the wood and bore goes.

What does the 10rd mag look like, is it a modified 12?

-Dave
Is that for all of the grades that AIM offers?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-11-2007, 5:52 PM
dfletcher dfletcher is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 10,883
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

My Ishapore does not have the baked enamel finish, it has a blued finish & at about 85% I think it looks best. Excessive headspace is I think a result of the Enfields using rear rather than front locking lugs, I don't think it is the result of too powerful a cartridge.

Saying that the Ishapores have a "generous" chamber dimension is putting it mildly though.

With respect to being "over 50 years old" I presume this is a reference to whether or not the Ishapores are C & R eligible. They are listed as C & R eligible in their original military condition.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 02-26-2009, 11:52 PM
BHP FAN's Avatar
BHP FAN BHP FAN is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 386
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

My Gibbs 2A Carbine handles .308 handloads or 7.62 NATO just fine,but the mag is crap,as was the 5 rounder from promag.Anybody know where to find a decent magazine for the Ishies?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-27-2009, 1:35 AM
Gryff's Avatar
Gryff Gryff is offline
CGSSA Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Castro Valley, CA
Posts: 10,786
iTrader: 56 / 98%
Default

Cool...zombie thread. Back from the dead. Feed it some brains (Where's Iggy?) and let's see how long it lives for!
__________________
My friends and family disavow all knowledge of my existence, let alone my opinions.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-27-2009, 7:34 AM
big50_1 big50_1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: East Bay, NorCal CA
Posts: 444
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

Got a Enfield 2A 7.62 Nato years ago because I somehow wound up with a lot of 7.62 Nato ammo and had no gun in that caliber. I read up and found out that the steel of the receiver and bolt was different than the .303 versions. BUT looking at mine, the look of the receiver steel and the bolt were very different from each other.

I didn't feel comfortable with firing the gun and sold the Enfield without firing the piece. In retrospect, just because a gun is cheap and affordable doesn't make it safe. Who knows, maybe I slid by getting a bolt stuck in my forehead (or not)!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-27-2009, 8:33 AM
M1A Rifleman's Avatar
M1A Rifleman M1A Rifleman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,440
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

[QUOTE=This is Indian, and they have never really gotten on track with their military industrial capability.
[/QUOTE]

Makes sense to me as a reason to stay away, which is why I don't shoot Indian or Pakistani ammo, including Wolf.

There was an NRA warning regarding the safety of British Enfields back in the 70's/80's due to several barrel failures documented with GI ammo. These were standard unmodified rifles. Failures were do to 40-yearold arms being warn out.

I would not trust or shoot a reworked/caliber conversion Enfield or any other firearm from that part of the world.

But, for those who disagree, enjoy your choice, you won't need to worry about me buying out the stock of Indian made weapons or ammo.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-27-2009, 8:48 AM
gtmmark's Avatar
gtmmark gtmmark is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Costa Mesa
Posts: 262
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

I also have a 2A and have run at least a thousand rounds through it with no headspace issues, I have gauges and check all my shooters regularly. As far as Dennis Kroh the guy is an arrogant ***** call his shop and see for yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-27-2009, 11:37 AM
eighteenninetytwo eighteenninetytwo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,376
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Couple of Points as have a few of these and several more Enfields. I know several people who have shot lots and lots of .308 through these rifles without an issue. There are lots of myths about these things and it would really help to check with peopel who know Enfields before making judgements.

Headspace - These are military rifles and the action was designed in the late 1890's. They were designed to be dropped in a trench and dragged across teh desert and still fire afterwards, so the chambers by modern standards are sloppy. Do as the guy Above said - use a military field gauge NOT modern commerical gauge. Even if it's failing that use discretion, but Enfields do have two significant size holes in the chamber for gas exchaust in case of head separation.

Also someone made a lovely little comment about india and their industrial quality. Possibly a fair point in general, but the factories that made the Enfield No.1 MkIII and then the 2A1 in india were set up and run by the British and even after Indian independence were still run to the same standards as the british armouries, same checks, same proof marks and same metallurgy. Where the difference is, is in how rifles are treated after they get out of the factory.

I found that mine were very accurate - no problems with having fired corrosive ammo, and as it's easier to get quality 7.62 than .303, they tend to open a few eyes at the range when the guy next to you with scoped M16alike is getting bigger groups than something which looks like it was out of date in the First world war
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-27-2009, 12:27 PM
smle-man's Avatar
smle-man smle-man is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 6,647
iTrader: 102 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M1A Rifleman View Post
Makes sense to me as a reason to stay away, which is why I don't shoot Indian or Pakistani ammo, including Wolf.

There was an NRA warning regarding the safety of British Enfields back in the 70's/80's due to several barrel failures documented with GI ammo. These were standard unmodified rifles. Failures were do to 40-yearold arms being warn out.

I would not trust or shoot a reworked/caliber conversion Enfield or any other firearm from that part of the world.

But, for those who disagree, enjoy your choice, you won't need to worry about me buying out the stock of Indian made weapons or ammo.
The warning you refer to was in #4 rifles for barrels that had craze-cracking in the throats from untold quantities of rounds fired through them. There were 2 rifles that failed in the hands of cadet forces in GB, rather than inspect all of the rifles they simply pulled them from service. The condition was caused by extensive use of cordite ammunition. For the sake of this discussion no 7.62 NATO or 7.62x51 has been loaded with cordite so this particular problem can't occur in a 2A/1. It makes sense to have any rifle that is old and well used inspected for safe shooting prior to using it.
__________________


"Everybody dies.. the thing is, to die well' Jack Harper

I'm a seven percenter
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-27-2009, 2:40 PM
eighteenninetytwo eighteenninetytwo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,376
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Actually one further point ot make is that these are NOT REWORKED RIFLES. The metallurgy is different from the No.1 Mk3 which was firing .303 british and these rifles are tested for teh 7.62 x 51 mm round.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-27-2009, 6:27 PM
smle-man's Avatar
smle-man smle-man is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 6,647
iTrader: 102 / 100%
Default Interesting discussion about 2As on the CSP forum

http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/fal/fal.pl?read=5087

Some of the folks on this forum are still serving Commonwealth armorers who have experience with the Lee Enfield and 2A series. Worth reading this discussion about the 2As. I learned something.
__________________


"Everybody dies.. the thing is, to die well' Jack Harper

I'm a seven percenter
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-27-2009, 7:33 PM
Farquaad Farquaad is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 330
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I do not have a 2a but everything I have ever heard is that they are great rifles. I own several Ishapore .303 both post independence examples and they are fine quality, on par with the English and Australian examples I own. The failure described earlier is almost (if not completely) impossible in any Enfield design. The receiver is designed to handle a case failure. Headspace will probably fail a no go gauge, use a field gauge, it is what they are designed for.

Even if a rifle failed I would wager that every rifle ever built has had a catastrophic failure at some point for some reason. M-1, M-1a, AR-15s, you name it it has or will fail. One rifle can not be used to judge the type of firearm.

Whoever this Empire Arms guy is selling everyone a bill of goods, I really believe his Enfield story is a load of crap, and second after checking out his website anyone who buys anything from that guy got sold a bill of goods too. Everything there is overpriced by a factor of at least 2. What a rip off.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 3:21 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.