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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 12-03-2010, 5:08 PM
Mrskylinetou Mrskylinetou is offline
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Default Looking for a Target match ar 15 upper

I tried looking on a few places like Fulton armory but where are there extremely accurate uppers? I know there are more places out there. Im looking for 3/4 MOA or better at 100. Budget it like 1500 or so. I been finding some for 1200 with all the extras. I would like to shoot heavy match bullets (1/7 twist) and I would like to try my hand at 223 long distance shooting.

There are two guys in town that can build me one but it seems like the ones off line are cheaper and then I can do the polishing myself. I have a match quality lower to throw it on that i built about a year ago.

Is 1500 unreasonable for an upper? Whats the best on the market?
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2010, 5:19 PM
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http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/

http://www.compasslake.com/
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  #3  
Old 12-03-2010, 5:28 PM
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What should I look into getting, barrel, twist, bolt, side lock, upper receiver, handguard????
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  #4  
Old 12-03-2010, 5:38 PM
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PM Sent
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  #5  
Old 12-03-2010, 5:43 PM
Mrskylinetou Mrskylinetou is offline
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I didnt get any PM... well not yet
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2010, 5:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrskylinetou View Post
Whats the best on the market?
http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/

http://www.compasslake.com/

I plagiarized the above, but Pthfndr is dead on!!

Go with 7.5, 7.7, or maybe even 8 twist. I have fired 90 grain Bergers from a 7.5 twist at 1000 yards. Others are shooting 7.7 twists with the 90's at 1000 yards. The 6.5 and 7 twist barrels don't seem to ever really want to shoot.
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  #7  
Old 12-03-2010, 5:48 PM
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oh brother....
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2010, 5:55 PM
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Armalite? Clark custom guns?
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2010, 6:12 PM
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define long distance...
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2010, 6:19 PM
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As long as possible. I have a few places to shoot over 3000 yards, not that i have anything or can shoot that far. I hear 1000 yards could be done within a 1500-1800 budget. I might not shoot this far but I rather not rebuy later.
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  #11  
Old 12-03-2010, 6:32 PM
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I have a 20" SS flute barrel Wilson Combat that I've been able to shoot sub MOA with 3 different factory match ammo in 1 sitting.
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2010, 6:33 PM
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.............
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
It makes it bigger and longer.

Last edited by BigBamBoo; 08-10-2011 at 11:51 AM..
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2010, 6:37 PM
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JP
white oak precision/armament
Compass Lake
PRI
Custom with Krieger BBL
and lots of others. I kept with JP. Love that gun.
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2010, 7:09 PM
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I should mention its for tatical long range shooting Not national match. I should have said that on the first post.
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2010, 7:15 PM
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1k with 223????????? not saying it cant be done- just like saying you cant ride cross-country on a tricycle- but why would you want to if you have the $$ for better alternatives. there are many better calibers out there. what are your reasons for your caliber choice?
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2010, 7:31 PM
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I already have a 308 bolt gun and im building a 6.5 grendle and 338lm. Granted those projects are gonna take much much much more time. I have built a nice lower so im looking to put a better upper on it. My m4 for 3 gun is almost done.

Im not really looking to shoot 1000 yards Im looking to shoot out too 1000 yards. The range here is only 400 but the smallest target is like 1 3/4 across now that it been shot so much. I would like to hit that every time. Its one of those hobby builds... I just tired of building things two or three times so I want to use people on here as a resource to get me the right info and the right direction.
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  #17  
Old 12-03-2010, 7:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrskylinetou View Post
The range here is only 400 but the smallest target is like 1 3/4 across now that it been shot so much. I would like to hit that every time.
a good goal to start with. any of the above manufactures should do the trick. since you're looking custom have you thought of 223AI?
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2010, 8:00 PM
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Yr talking about akley? I was thinking about it. I don't know too much. That was one of the things I wanted to do a ton of research on.
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2010, 8:34 PM
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Default No AR style rifle is going to hit anything at 3000 yards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrskylinetou View Post
As long as possible. I have a few places to shoot over 3000 yards, not that i have anything or can shoot that far. I hear 1000 yards could be done within a 1500-1800 budget. I might not shoot this far but I rather not rebuy later.
Come to think of it there aren't any rifles of which I am aware that could hit anything smaller than a house at 3000 yards with any sort of regularity. At 3000 yards, even reaching the target would be highly unlikely with an AR, even in .308, but .223 is out of the question. Perhaps a .338 Lapua, or .416 or 50 BMG could reach that range but accuracy would be highly questionable. The slightest uncorrected wind, or change in temperature, or a few FPS of muzzle velocity would be enough to throw the aim off by a huge amount at that range. I believe that the longest ever recorded sniper hit was 2700 yards with a .338 Lapua, but even the manufacturer of the rifle said that past 1500 meters luck was a major factor in a hit. In the 2700 meter shot the bullet dropped 120 meters, that's a drop of more than a football field.

It is possible to hit reasonable sized targets with a long barrel, heavy bullet .223 at 1000 yards, but there are not many people who can do it, and it will take much more than a great rifle. You will need to know and compensate for the wind (keeping in mind that the wind isn't likely to be the same all the way to the target), spin drift, Coriolis effect (earths rotation, it varies with compass heading of shot), barometric pressure, humidity, temperature of the air and the rifle/cartridge. Obviously it is possible to hit small targets at 1000 yards, without all of the above corrections, if you can take enough sighting shots. What makes a 2700 yard sniper shot so incredible is that it was done without any sighting shots.
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  #20  
Old 12-03-2010, 8:42 PM
Mrskylinetou Mrskylinetou is offline
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I understand all these thing, I'm in the long long long process of being trained to shoot long distance. So far I been successful at 600 yard consitantly but NM guys do that with iron sights!

I got an unbelievable amount of learning to do and millions of round to shoot. I can't wait.

For now this is my first precision ar build so like I said I'm gaining info on what I need to give me the best chance.

Also I'm not looking to shoot 1000 yards, I'm looking to shoot up to 1000 yards.
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  #21  
Old 12-03-2010, 9:54 PM
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Get a Lilja SS barrel.
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2010, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captbilly View Post
Come to think of it there aren't any rifles of which I am aware that could hit anything smaller than a house at 3000 yards with any sort of regularity. At 3000 yards, even reaching the target would be highly unlikely with an AR, even in .308, but .223 is out of the question. Perhaps a .338 Lapua, or .416 or 50 BMG could reach that range but accuracy would be highly questionable. The slightest uncorrected wind, or change in temperature, or a few FPS of muzzle velocity would be enough to throw the aim off by a huge amount at that range. I believe that the longest ever recorded sniper hit was 2700 yards with a .338 Lapua, but even the manufacturer of the rifle said that past 1500 meters luck was a major factor in a hit. In the 2700 meter shot the bullet dropped 120 meters, that's a drop of more than a football field.

It is possible to hit reasonable sized targets with a long barrel, heavy bullet .223 at 1000 yards, but there are not many people who can do it, and it will take much more than a great rifle. You will need to know and compensate for the wind (keeping in mind that the wind isn't likely to be the same all the way to the target), spin drift, Coriolis effect (earths rotation, it varies with compass heading of shot), barometric pressure, humidity, temperature of the air and the rifle/cartridge. Obviously it is possible to hit small targets at 1000 yards, without all of the above corrections, if you can take enough sighting shots. What makes a 2700 yard sniper shot so incredible is that it was done without any sighting shots.

i think the 3000yd comment was so we would understand he means a vast variety of distance.


Bombadillo seems to have mentioned all of the well known MFG's
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  #23  
Old 12-04-2010, 5:51 AM
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There is soo much land out here you can really shoot as far as you want. Realistically is a matter of time, not a simple task to set up a target and a good location. When ever I get the 338 lm built I'll do some distance stuff but that's a long way off.

I figure distance shooting a 223 well give me some real important training that I'm going to need with some other build plans. 223 upper and ammo is much cheaper, moves around more and is a simpler shot to set up.
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2010, 9:26 AM
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i'd get a target 10/22 with a nice barrel and trigger. i bet it's just as hard to shoot that at 200 yds than it is to shoot 223 @600yds or 308 @1k yds....
you'd save a ton on ammo and still learn lots....
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrskylinetou View Post
I should mention its for tatical long range shooting Not national match. I should have said that on the first post.
It matters, not. Accurate is accurate. What does "tactical" mean: bipod, rails, flashlights?

Being successful at long-range is a function of: high quality equipment and ammo, breaking great shots, reading the wind.
Being successful at short-range only requires the first two.
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:24 AM
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I would go with a white oak precision upper. Tell them what you're looking to do with it, and build a 26" bull barreled upper that can go out to 800+ yards with the right nut behind the trigger. They make a really nice setup for a great price. You can get their factory whiteoakarmament.com uppers in 26" match for under 700 bucks. You really can't go wrong with either them or JP.
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  #27  
Old 12-04-2010, 10:44 AM
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...............
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Bring hay for my horse....wine for my men....and mud for my turtle!

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
It makes it bigger and longer.

Last edited by BigBamBoo; 08-10-2011 at 11:49 AM..
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  #28  
Old 12-04-2010, 2:01 PM
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+100 on the JP. I have gotten 1.25" groups at 300 yards with the Black Hills 77gr.
Mil Seconds, white box, in my 18" mid weight, and once, a .770" group, 3 shots at 300yds also.
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  #29  
Old 12-04-2010, 6:15 PM
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I mean Tatical, big scope on it shooting precision distance. I guess I mean not high power or national match rifle with iron sights. At my range they call it high power.

I'll look up jp. I heard of white oak. I would like to get someone who specializes in this kind of builds. There is s local guy but he just doesnt have the tools to do all the work himself. He has to send all the stuff out.

Nice upper, krieger barrel, nice bold group all polished and put together properly.
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  #30  
Old 12-04-2010, 6:28 PM
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John at White Oak builds Uppers and chambers barrels for many High Power Match and Service Rifle competitors. Outstanding products.
Take all advice from Ahnother8, he does "okay" on the 1K line

I'm using a match barrel from White Oak Precision; 24" - 1/8 twist - Wylde chambered by Compass Lake.
It Shoots 80 and 82 grain Bergers and JLKs very well out to 1K. We'll be at next weekend's match at Sacramento Valley.

In case you're wondering, that's a Sinclair F Class bipod. Actually weighs about the same as a Harris BRM-S but is much more stable.

Last edited by killshot44; 12-04-2010 at 9:27 PM.. Reason: what's that bipod?
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  #31  
Old 12-04-2010, 7:13 PM
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have you thought of j&j armory out of santa anahttp://www.jandjarmory.com/index.html he uses broughton barrels which are supposed to be very accurate, im pretty sure he can build you an upper to any parts list you have
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  #32  
Old 12-04-2010, 7:38 PM
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I have two very very well build .22 that i shoot in our local tactical 22 match on fri nights. The group under 3/4 in any weather even cold bore shots. I have shot groups that are 1/2 inch out side to outside but Im not that great of a shot to do it every time. I can shoot a 6'' x 6'' square at 200, all ten shots.

I really like Killshot's set up, thats what im looking for.
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