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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 11-29-2010, 9:40 AM
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Default Price of Fully Auto M16/M4

I recently purchased this book:

Gunsmithing - The AR-15 by Patrick Sweeney


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/144..._ya_os_product

In the book he mentions that the cost of a fully auto M16 or M4 runs about $16,000. Why would this be the case since a semi AR-15 only runs $1K or so? Am I missing something here? Is this the legal costs associated with the paperwork for a civilian to purchase a F/A weapon? I cant believe that $16,000 is what the military would pay. Please can someone clear this up!
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Old 11-29-2010, 9:43 AM
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New "machine guns" cannot be registered with the Feds. That was locked down in 1986, instantly making them shoot up in price for private ownership.
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Old 11-29-2010, 9:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidRSA View Post
I recently purchased this book:

Gunsmithing - The AR-15 by Patrick Sweeney


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/144..._ya_os_product

In the book he mentions that the cost of a fully auto M16 or M4 runs about $16,000. Why would this be the case since a semi AR-15 only runs $1K or so? Am I missing something here? Is this the legal costs associated with the paperwork for a civilian to purchase a F/A weapon? I cant believe that $16,000 is what the military would pay. Please can someone clear this up!
It's because you can't buy a full auto receiver that was made after 1986, and the number of those available only goes down over time, not up. Hence the insane costs.
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Old 11-29-2010, 9:44 AM
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In a word: scarcity.
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2010, 9:45 AM
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The military / gov price of a new M16 or M4 is well under $2k, I'm not going to research the actual contracts, but it's probably comparable to a nice AR15. The price that author is quoting is referencing the civilian transferable M16s that are on the market.

In 1986 it became illegal for civilians to purchase fully automatic firearms, however, those firearms that were already in circulation and registered at that time were grandfathered in and may be transferred. There is a lot of NFA paperwork involved, and because there are a limited number of such firearms available and there will not be any "new" transferable firearms in the foreseeable future they have gone up in value exponentially. It's a real clear cut example of supply and demand.
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Old 11-29-2010, 9:45 AM
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EDIT: oops, all previous posts beat me to it.

Because, the number of transferable FA toys is limited to those that were in private hands pre-1986.
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Old 11-29-2010, 9:45 AM
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I can see a legal full auto m16 going for more than $10000+. That seems right.
Hood price......$2500, last time I checked
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Old 11-29-2010, 9:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Burbur View Post
In a word: scarcity.
Bingo!
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Old 11-29-2010, 9:47 AM
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an M16 is down to like $9k now, I think a legal DIAS (drop in auto sear) is like 3K

I never understood the whole machine gun reciever vs DIAS thingy...I really dont care to pay 3K-10K for a happy switch
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Old 11-29-2010, 9:48 AM
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The military pays less for M16/M4s than most of us pay for our ARs. As the others have said, you're paying for a dwindling resource.
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  #11  
Old 11-29-2010, 9:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
an M16 is down to like $9k now, I think a legal DIAS (drop in auto sear) is like 3K

I never understood the whole machine gun reciever vs DIAS thingy...I really dont care to pay 3K-10K for a happy switch

I'd buy an RDIAS over a registered receiver any day of the week.

Supply and demand.... The supply is going down and not being replenished and the demand is still there for them. No new FA's for civilians after 1986. Whats out there is whats out there.
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  #12  
Old 11-29-2010, 10:01 AM
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Why does it cost so much? Because its an incremental battle between us verse them.
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  #13  
Old 11-29-2010, 10:06 AM
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From the Armytimes:


The Army plans to buy about 100,000 M4s in fiscal 2008. For this large a buy, each M4 without accessories costs about $800, Colt Chief Executive Officer William Keys said. As part of the contract, though, each M4 comes with a rail system for mounting optics and flashlights, a backup iron sight, seven magazines and a sling — additions that raise the price for each M4 package to about $1,300, according to Defense Department budget documents.

The price of each 416 “will range anywhere from $800 to $1,425 depending on volume and accessories,” said H&K’s CEO John Meyer Jr.
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  #14  
Old 11-29-2010, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
New "machine guns" cannot be registered with the Feds. That was locked down in 1986, instantly making them shoot up in price for private ownership.
Exactly! Also, if memory serves correctly, the majority of the cost of any MG is the registered sear it uses to function.

The military does not have MG restrictions, they probably pick up basic M16s/M4s for $400 or better per rifle since they buy in such bulk.
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Solidsnake87 View Post
Exactly! Also, if memory serves correctly, the majority of the cost of any MG is the registered sear it uses to function.
It's the extra hole in the receiver. A DIAS(drop-in auto sear) is different.
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:26 AM
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If they're so scarce who supplies the MX cartels?
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  #17  
Old 11-29-2010, 10:26 AM
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$503 each for m16a2 for goverment
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  #18  
Old 11-29-2010, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by evidens83 View Post
If they're so scarce who supplies the MX cartels?

LEGAL FA's are scarce. Any homeboy can find a nice FA AK or AR if they wanted to for a decent price. Its us law abiding citizens that cant own them easily. Apparently California thinks its only suitable for cops and criminals to own firearms.

Last edited by cmace22; 11-29-2010 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:34 AM
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I think that the "Lightening Links" are still well under $1K. And like the RDIAS, you can swap them around in almost any rifle.
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Last edited by jdberger; 11-29-2010 at 11:03 AM.. Reason: "R" is for Registered. ;)
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:35 AM
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I think that the "Lightening Links" are still well under $1K. And like the DIAS, you can swap them around in almost any rifle.
Whats sad is what they can be made for and the price that they are sold for....
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  #21  
Old 11-29-2010, 10:41 AM
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I think that the "Lightening Links" are still well under $1K. And like the DIAS, you can swap them around in almost any rifle.
No, you can not buy a DIAS and use it in legally in a semi-automatic AR15...thats manufacturing a machine gun and = 20 years in the big house.

There is a legal way to buy and use one...I am just not sure how its done.

If no one here knows, you can go over to 1911.com and ask Admin "Fox" in the AR15 section. He knows and has posted info on it before. I am just too lazy to search...lol

and if you go to ar15.com expect 10,000 idiots to reply before 1 person who really knows the deal...(like me...LOL)
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
No, you can not buy a DIAS and use it in legally in a semi-automatic AR15...thats manufacturing a machine gun and = 20 years in the big house.

There is a legal way to buy and use one...I am just not sure how its done.

If no one here knows, you can go over to 1911.com and ask Admin "Fox" in the AR15 section. He knows and has posted info on it before. I am just too lazy to search...lol

and if you go to ar15.com expect 10,000 idiots to reply before 1 person who really knows the deal...(like me...LOL)
I could be wrong, but it was my impression that the [R]DIAS was the machine gun - just like a FA trigger pack for an HK pattern rifle.

No?
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:58 AM
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There is some good info and some bad info being passed around.

Right now prices are around this market:

- REGISTERED M16 lower: 9k+
- REGISTERED DIAS: 10k+
- REGISTERED Lightning Link: 7k+

The keyword is REGISTERED, as in it was inputted in the national registry pre-86. The reason DIAS costs more than an FA lower is that is can be swapped between lowers. The LL is the cheapest simply because it's the most crude and until recently was basically FA or safe, no option for a semi only mode.

If you see anything FA for less than 6k+ it's probably not even legitimate. The LL/DIAS being sold for $50-$200 are PAPERWEIGHTS. If you happen to own any sort of AR lower along with those two UNREGISTERED parts than you got yourself a date with club fed.

The only "cheap" FA firearms are the MAC's, which is why they are so popular. And by cheap I mean 3k+. Go here if you want to know how much FA really cost:

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/?...=&session_key=

Last edited by bobfried; 11-29-2010 at 11:00 AM..
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:00 AM
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If I could legally own one in CA, I would have already paid the $10,000. I don't like how much it costs, but I would pay it.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:04 AM
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Thanks for the clarification, Bob. I edited my post.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
No, you can not buy a DIAS and use it in legally in a semi-automatic AR15...thats manufacturing a machine gun and = 20 years in the big house.

There is a legal way to buy and use one...I am just not sure how its done.

If no one here knows, you can go over to 1911.com and ask Admin "Fox" in the AR15 section. He knows and has posted info on it before. I am just too lazy to search...lol

and if you go to ar15.com expect 10,000 idiots to reply before 1 person who really knows the deal...(like me...LOL)
Are you speaking of the pre-'81 sears? Prior to '81, they were not required to be serialized and registered. Those are legal to own, but not to use, and not if you also own a rifle that it will fit.

'81-86, they are legal to own and use under NFA laws.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmace22 View Post
I'd buy an RDIAS over a registered receiver any day of the week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdberger View Post
I think that the "Lightening Links" are still well under $1K. And like the RDIAS, you can swap them around in almost any rifle.
I would do the same thing, however, even the cheap Lightning link sells for $7500 if you can find one.

jdberger, where did you see a lightning link for less than $1k? I would like to buy one if that was the case.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
No, you can not buy a DIAS and use it in legally in a semi-automatic AR15...thats manufacturing a machine gun and = 20 years in the big house.

There is a legal way to buy and use one...I am just not sure how its done.
If you lawfully own a registered lightning link or DIAS, you can use it in *ANY* semi-auto AR15. That's the whole point.

To purchase a legal registered LL or DIAS, you must first not live in California. Second, you must find a pre-86 registered one for sale. Third, you pay your $200 tax. After a few months you'll be approved and you pay for it and take it home.
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