Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Shotgun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Shotgun discussions Trap, Hunting, Defense and more. A place for enthusiasts to discuss the shotgun.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-02-2006, 11:34 AM
onley11 onley11 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 226
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Is the 1100 competition master what I shoud get?


I am looking for a gun for home defense, three gun competition, and informal clay shooting.
  1. It needs to be super reliable, with both low and high brass loads, and shoot slugs well too.
  2. Slugs and Hot buckshot would only be occasionaly used, but must be super reliable.
  3. I would mostly use low brass dove loads, and would be ok with low recoil buck for most defensive uses. But slugs must be an option.
  4. I have had a mossberg 500 combo gun before, and it was ok, but I need the extra ammo capacity, and I know I am faster with a semi auto than a pump. I qualified with a mossburg 500 in the USMC and have shot the 500 in three gun, and it is not competitive.
  5. I would like an 11-87 with the same features, but I don't know if it exists (not on the le website) But I don't know if it would even make a difference. I definatly would prefer interchangable chokes, but if I was stuck with one, it would be modified, not improved cylinder(like the 11-87 police)

Check out this video, should I belive the hype? 1100 video

Let me know what you think, I don't have the scratch for a benelli, and would really like a quality semi auto fully capable shotgun.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-02-2006, 3:29 PM
dwtt dwtt is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,268
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

This shotgun would work well for what you want it for, except maybe for the clays shooting. I have a remington 1100 that I have shot 3-gun with and I have a 7-shell magazine extension and sling mounts added. The shotgun has a 26" fixed choke barrel and it does 3-gun and clays well, but is a bit long for self defense use in the home. I have shot slugs, buckshot, and birdshot for 3-gun matches, but all with low brass shells, and haven't had any problems. I have also shot birdshot for trap, also with low brass shells. I don't know if there would be any problems with high brass shells.
The 1100 Competition Master would work well for 3-gun and home self defense, but I don't know how the 20" barrel would perform for clays. Does the CM have choke tubes or is it a fixed choke barrel? If you will shoot primarily 3-gun and home defense, I would recommend the competition master, and if you find that you need a longer barrel for clays, there are barrels and chokes for the 1100 on the market.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-02-2006, 6:25 PM
gose's Avatar
gose gose is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF Bay Area (San Mateo)
Posts: 3,900
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

The competition master is only available used. They stopped producing it and the current version is called "Tactical" http://www.remington.com/images/prod...il_tac1100.jpg

Pretty much the same gun, but with some minor mods.

I'll bring my 1100 tactical tomorrow, so if you stop by Chabot you can try it out
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-02-2006, 9:09 PM
onley11 onley11 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 226
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I would take you up on that, but I live in San Diego. Thanks for the offer though. I'll check out the tactical link now.
ETA: Looks like they added a more tactical 18 inch p grip speedfeed stock version, and changed colors. I kinda liked the black and grey, but whatever.

Remchoke means a screw in choke, right? I'm kinda hoping so, and it appears the barrel is 22 inches, not 20. Gotta wait for turners to put the tactical back on sale .

This will work nicely with my off list AR with monsterman grip, and my 40 cal STI. Maybe I should duracoat them to all match.

Last edited by onley11; 07-02-2006 at 9:23 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-03-2006, 7:32 PM
gose's Avatar
gose gose is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF Bay Area (San Mateo)
Posts: 3,900
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

Yeah, its a screw-in choke
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-05-2006, 10:03 AM
3GunFunShooter 3GunFunShooter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NorCal Foothills
Posts: 2,255
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

I love my 1100 Competition Master. No problems at all.
Changed the sights to Williams Fire Sights. They sit higher on the rib, better alignment for me. Soft shooting. I have used it many 3 gun matches.
Have not seen the new Tactical model that replaced it.
Gas ports are larger than the standard 1100's, so to run the low base/low
recoil ammo.
If I had to get another shotgun, it would be the 1100 CM or Tactical.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-05-2006, 5:40 PM
onley11 onley11 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 226
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Thanks for the vote of confidence, and the overbored gas port info, that puts my mind at ease. I use buck for defensive purposes, so low recoil buck is really no handicap for me, and if I can deliver three charges instead of one...

And realistically, I will mostly shoot cheap dove loads for practice, and low recoil buck for defense(with some slugs in the shell carrier gotta popping in a slug for a "tough" target. Stucco wall, what stucco wall???

Full power ammo must be like shooting +p's in a pistol. You can do it, just don't make a habit out of it all the time.

Now to wait for turners to have a sale.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-05-2006, 10:48 PM
gose's Avatar
gose gose is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF Bay Area (San Mateo)
Posts: 3,900
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

Don't keep your hopes up too high about that sale. Took my store quite a few weeks to find one, they seem to be the ******** now
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-06-2006, 9:57 AM
onley11 onley11 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 226
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gose
Don't keep your hopes up too high about that sale. Took my store quite a few weeks to find one, they seem to be the ******** now
Noooooooo....

Easy to belive, I saw it go on sale 6 months ago, and nothing since. I was gonna get it, but San Diego has an assault weapon ordinance re stores selling "hi cap" semi auto shotguns, and I didn't want to drive an hour to the next closest turners that day.

ETA: Is this a good deal, considering 20 bucks shipping and transfer fees?
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=52002121

Last edited by onley11; 07-06-2006 at 1:03 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-06-2006, 2:04 PM
gose's Avatar
gose gose is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF Bay Area (San Mateo)
Posts: 3,900
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by treelogger
Henrik: Can you edit your previous message to use another word for "*****", or s-p-e-l-l it out. I think the bad-word-filter at Calguns has gone bananas. Thanks.
Actually I think the filter is working, but maybe s**t would make it more readable?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-06-2006, 3:43 PM
DrjonesUSA's Avatar
DrjonesUSA DrjonesUSA is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,474
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Exclamation

I'm not sure.

Frankly, I'd probably stay away from it and other Remmy autoloaders.

I've been researching them for quite some time, and have just never really read truly glowing reviews of Remington autoloaders.

I'm sure there are a lot out there that work fine, but I'm still a bit reluctant.

I'd go with the Winchester Super X2 Practical. Benelli wouldn't be bad either.


Here's an interesting article:



Full text is here:

http://www.multigun.com/speedsg.html

Excerpts about 1100/11-87 and SX2 are shown below:

Speed Shotgun
By Patrick E. Kelley
multigun.com

Copyright 2001, Patrick Kelley
Taken from the November 2001 issue of Front Sight magazine, official journal of the United States Practical Shooting Association.

In our world of action shooting, the 3-gun format is taking hold. With the improved success of the 3-Gun Nationals (thanks USPSA) and the well-established Mystery Mountain 3-Gun, your opportunities to get in some quality long gun time are growing. Outside USPSA you will find other venues to scratch your long gun itch, such as the SOF and World Championship Tactical 3-gun competitions.

Becoming a USPSA member in 1990 after having spent some time in the slow pursuit of Metallic Handgun Silhouettes and NRA bull's-eyes, I was immediately hooked on our game of speed, power and accuracy. With some exposure to high-speed shotgunning via bowling pin shooting, my fascination with ever-faster shotguns has become deep-seated. In the years between then and now I have used most of the popular (and one unpopular) self-loading shotguns. I've used them with barrels from 19.75 to 28 inches, capacities from 8 to 15 rounds, rigged as tactical or open, with optics, ports, side saddles, Tec loaders, trigger jobs, tuning, and mercury recoil reduction.


Remington 1100/11-87
Early on my list of tools was the 1100 Remington. Most of you are probably familiar with this arm. It possesses the attributes of low recoil (due to gas operation), good ergonomics, high cyclic rate, easy maintenance, and reasonable affordability. With many aftermarket parts available, it is the top choice of many 3-gunners. Except for one thing, we could conclude the article right here.

Unfortunately, the shotgun that seems perfect is not, as RELIABILITY, (especially long-term reliability), is a problem. Practical shooters tend to shoot more than the average wingshooter, and they shoot long strings of heavy loads. This is the downfall of the 1100/11-87 platform.

The 1100's problems relate to the interceptor latch and magazine tube.

We cause the problems with the magazine tube. For capacity purposes, we hang extension tubes on the end of the factory tube. If this transition isn't smooth, you have problems. Consider that the shells, follower, and spring must pass by it in two directions. On my 1100's, I use the factory steel follower or one of my own spun out on the lathe to help glide over any such problems. If you must use a plastic follower, keep it clean and smooth.

The larger problems surround the magazine spring. We pay close attention to our pistol recoil and magazine springs (sometimes too much), but we neglect our shotguns. In the 1100, this is a serious mistake. As a rule of thumb the spring should be 8" to 10" longer than the assembled length of your shotgun and extension.

The 1100 trigger group contains a part called the carrier release. The carrier release is operated solely by the force of the shell leaving the magazine tube. Really! The thing that allows your shotgun to close and feed a live round is dependent upon the force of the shell leaving the magazine tube! How often have you seen 1100's lock open, with a round sitting in the action? Nothing looks wrong, but the bolt has stuck back? Any trouble with feeding rounds out of the magazine tube can cause the carrier release to "stick" on the carrier stud.

When all goes well, dropping the hammer, activating the disconnect and interceptor latch, feeding the next round, tripping the carrier release, plus loading the round and re-setting the trigger takes about 14 hundredths of a second. Yes, this is the cyclic rate of the 1100 Remington. Shot-to-shot speed stops at 14 hundredths. While it is possible to pull the trigger faster, the disconnect will not reset until the bolt is fully closed.

This tidbit of information came to me via my 1100's, and the aforementioned quest for speed. While not known in the big circles, I was, for a period of time, (here in my little neck of the woods) referred to as "Machine gun Kelley." During a bowling pin shoot I noticed I was either trigger-freezing or somehow stutter-stepping around pins. With the attendant five second penalty per pin left on the table, this would never do. Only a poor sportsman blames his equipment, but I had to know whether I suffered from trigger freeze or if the gun was at fault. Having multiple 1100's on hand, a video camera, and an operator, I soon found out more than I wanted. A cool November afternoon found my buddy Hunter and me out testing one of my 1100's. Hunter was picked because he did not immediately suggest it was pure folly to think I could outrun a self-loading gun. Careful examination of slow motion footage clearly showed my trigger finger pulling the trigger a second time before the action closed. Now what?

More testing with more 1100's with a wider selection of ammunition brought the same results. Thoughts of cutting, grinding, lightening and springing came and went. There was nothing actually wrong with any of the 1100's tested, only a built-in finite cyclic rate. What next? I know, I'll just sell a couple of 1100's and buy the "world's fastest shotgun." A few weeks passed and one of our local gun shops (in this case davesguns.com) called me with the good news. My new no-excuses, super-duper, wham-bam, special-operations-team-approved Benelli M1 Super 90 was waiting for me, yee haw!


Winchester Super X2

Unbeknownst to many, Browning and Winchester are owned by the same holding company. As a result, the two firms are sharing a lot of information with each other and with FN.

Winchester's Super X2 is essentially the same gun as the Browning Gold, only with a different set of features. The Winchester does not have the speed-loading feature of the Browning, otherwise the price point would be substantially higher.

What the Winchester does offer is a ready-to-rock "Practical" configuration! Somebody at Winchester must be a 3 gunner, as this gun is built with us in mind. Sporting a 22" barrel for good handling (complete with Invector chokes) and a factory-installed magazine extension bringing capacity to 8 and 1, this gun is good to go. Standard features also include a synthetic stock and cantilever scope mount. Not leaving the Limited division gunners out, Winchester has fitted an excellent set of rifle sights. The rear one folds down and is dovetailed to the scope mount. The front sight is dovetailed into a nice-looking serrated ramp and has the very popular fiber optic tube or "light pipe" nestled inside. The only thing I would add is a side saddle, and again, 3gungear.com can handle that for you.

I got a chance to spend a little time (very little) with the Winchester Super X2 and found what may pull me away from my beloved Auto 5. After a few speed drills on three pepper poppers, I was already well pleased with this self-loader's performance. Using 00 Buck loads (does this thing smooth out recoil or what?) I ran a three-popper course with each popper a yard apart and 12 yards down range. From the port arms position I was able to "draw" and knock down all three in just under one second. Considering a reaction and first engagement time of .68, split times between the next two poppers were 12 and 13 hundredths respectively. This is as fast as my Auto 5! At this speed, the Benelli's hammer follows the bolt!

Idaho state police officer David Neth was kind enough to let me perform this test with his personal Winchester SX2 Practical. He also demonstrated this shotgun's true capability by pulling off some 11 hundredths splits along with a handful of 12's. To top that, he beat my personal record for the fastest five shots. This is a little thing I have been doing since the speed bug hit me. With the timer running you let loose of five rounds as fast as you can, counting the first shot as zero and totaling the remaining four split intervals. My best to date has been 56 hundredths. David amazed the small gathering at a 3 gun match in Winchester, Idaho by firing those five shots in 51 hundredths! The splits were three .13's and one .12. This gun is full auto fast! By the way, this was with Federal 00 buck. No, not the low recoil stuff, this was Federal MAX 2 3/4 Classic.

So there you have it, a quick overview of a short list of practical self-loading shotguns. All will do the job nicely. Some may fit your needs better than others. Each has its high points and all have their problems. As much as I thought I would not draw any conclusions for you I would like to leave you with this;

My quest for speed grew out of a desire for reliability. While speed is not everything, you can have that and a reliable shotgun to boot. No matter what gun you use, our game will uncover its weaknesses and shine its attributes. So get out there and see how fast you can go. Go 3 gunning!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-06-2006, 10:08 PM
dwtt dwtt is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,268
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

I read this article before in USPSA's magazine, and I have never had these problems on my 1100. I have had the first problem, magazine extension hang ups, on my Fabarm FP6 pump shotgun, though, with a Choate magazine extension, but never had it on my 1100. As for the second problem, the carrier release doesn't stick on my 1100 and it loads every shell on it's own. From my own experience, I think the author of the article might have had some other work done on his shotgun that he's not mentioning, but I'm just guessing here.
As for the Winchester and Benelli, I haven't shot these shotguns but they seem to be good shotguns for matches and defensive use.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-06-2006, 10:35 PM
onley11 onley11 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 226
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

It also may not have been the competition master/tactical, with the proper springs and tuning. I also don't shoot much heavy buck at shotgun matches. Birdshot knocks down poppers fine. Maybe I'm missing something. I checked out the sx2 and they are btwn 800-1000 on gunbroker depending on version. I like 650-699 better. Just me .

Maybe since they suck now, gose will sell me his cheap.

But seriously, I do want to hear the good and the bad. If there is a mag extension issue, maybe the shoulder can be, or has been, beveled.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-07-2006, 8:37 AM
gose's Avatar
gose gose is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF Bay Area (San Mateo)
Posts: 3,900
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

That article is 5 years old and "slightly" outdated. Reliability was one thing they said they "fixed" from the competition master to the tactical. I'd love to see a comparison with the tactical instead.

So far I've heard nothing but good things about the tactical, but when people are talking about their own guns they tend to be somewhat biased

Last edited by gose; 07-07-2006 at 8:41 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-07-2006, 11:21 AM
onley11 onley11 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 226
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gose
That article is 5 years old and "slightly" outdated. Reliability was one thing they said they "fixed" from the competition master to the tactical. I'd love to see a comparison with the tactical instead.

So far I've heard nothing but good things about the tactical, but when people are talking about their own guns they tend to be somewhat biased
So a question. It's my favorite one.

Has the gun ever not went bang when it was supposed to? Any jams, stovepipes, failures to feed, anything? And how many rounds have you fired?

I train to clear stoppages, but I train to take on 10 armed men too(idpa, ipsc, XBOX), and I don't expect either to happen. (I shoot glocks revolvers, bolt guns, and AR's) I know exactly how to fix any unreliable gun, you sell it. (unless something is legitimatly broken, then you DO fix it )
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-07-2006, 12:14 PM
gose's Avatar
gose gose is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF Bay Area (San Mateo)
Posts: 3,900
iTrader: 59 / 100%
Default

I just have a hundred or so rounds through mine, so way too early to say anything about reliability. I want to shoot at least 1k rounds through any gun before I started making any statements about reliability, but its looking good so far...
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-07-2006, 9:40 PM
dwtt dwtt is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,268
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onley11
But seriously, I do want to hear the good and the bad. If there is a mag extension issue, maybe the shoulder can be, or has been, beveled.
I hope I'm adding to the signal and not the noise here. The article from USPSA's magazine referred to 1100's with aftermarket magazine extensions, which is what I have. I haven't experienced the problems the author mentioned in the article with my 1100. I would think the Competition Master and the Tactical models would have this resolved since they were designed for multigun match shooting, but I don't know for certain if this is the case because I don't own one. However, Gose has shot over 100 shells from his shotgun without any problems, so things look good so far. From my personal experience using my 1100 for trap and 3-gun shooting, the 1100 model line is pretty reliable as long as operator error doesn't creep in.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:46 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.