AP rifle bullets

[mousegun]

Can someone help me out here?

Anyone try to buy .308 caliber armor piercing (AP) bullets (not ammo), either from out of state or locally? Seems there's just about 100% consensus that these things are CA illegal, but I don't find that anywhere in the California Penal Code. In fact, AP ammo "primarily designed for use in rifles" is exempt (CPC §12323(b)), and the CPC doesn't even cover components. Even called the DOJ and got a confirmation from their resident enforcement officer on these points.

Why is everyone so paranoid? I even got invited to leave Turner's just for bringing up the subject. Was informed by a counter goob that he “had 20 years experience in this business and knew what he was talking about!”

What's going on here? Where's the FUD coming from? Or am I so naive I can't smell the coffee?

[adamsreeftank]

A LEO friend of mine told me that once the Thomson Contender came out, any "rifle" rounds that could be fired in the pistol were now considered "pistol" rounds. So 308 and 223 AP is now illegal. The penalties are VERY steep for EACH round you have.

[PanzerAce]

Originally Posted by adamsreeftank

A LEO friend of mine told me that once the Thomson Contender came out, any "rifle" rounds that could be fired in the pistol were now considered "pistol" rounds. So 308 and 223 AP is now illegal. The penalties are VERY steep for EACH round you have.

that doesnt seem right. The only real rifle round that I recal as being illegal because of AP is the 7.62x39, and that is because someone built a pistol for it. IIRC, they were even told by the ATF that all the steel core x39 would be illegal if they decided to build the gun....

[mousegun]

Yeah. But I've spent 17 years working around LEOs in the OCSheriff's department, and none of them ever heard of that. As I stated before, DOJ enforcement says it's OK.

I could find no reference to conversion of rifle ammunition to pistol by commercial access to a manufactured pistol for that particular rifle ammunition. In any case CPC §12032(b) exempts it by definition. Any references that confirm what your LEO told you?

[The Soup Nazi]

Originally Posted by PanzerAce

that doesnt seem right. The only real rifle round that I recal as being illegal because of AP is the 7.62x39, and that is because someone built a pistol for it. IIRC, they were even told by the ATF that all the steel core x39 would be illegal if they decided to build the gun....

Heh, you'd be referring to Olympic Arms signing a deal with the devil by manufacturing that pistol even though all the other companies told them the consequences of their actions. I'm surprised Brady or IANSA hasn't created their own weapons factory to produce a pistol for every caliber to make anything that "COULD BE AP" even though there is a general consensus that the Chinese surplus didn't have the capability to pierce armor.

[DRH]

California's AP ammo denfinition is based upon the Federal definition of AP ammo. Here are some links;

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wba...st/ap_ammo.txt

As for the original question, AP bullets can be purchased from Hitech ammo online at http://www.hi-techammo.com/

[stevie]

AP bullets can be purchased, tracers cannot.

[tpliquid1]

M855 ammo consider AP right?

[mousegun]

Originally Posted by DRH

California's AP ammo denfinition is based upon the Federal definition of AP ammo. Here are some links;

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wba...st/ap_ammo.txt

As for the original question, AP bullets can be purchased from Hitech ammo online at http://www.hi-techammo.com/

But the definition in CPC §12323(b) has a specific exception for "ammunition designed primarily for use in rifles." Majority of folks think CA AP is pistol and rifle when in fact it's handgun only.

As for the ammo on Hithech's site, CA illegal is still available from some out of state sources, but more and more are refusing to ship to CA. My main question is: why is rifle AP shipping to CA singled out by most sellers as illegal? Especially private sellers on gun auctions and local gun stores and vendors.

[stevie]

Probably "CYA" by the sellers. CA laws are so crazy, they most believe better safe than sorry attitude.

M855 has a steel core, but is not classified as "AP"