[mikehaas]

06/20/2006 - AB 352 has been removed from the inactive file and is again in play. After a long period of inactivity, Koretz is again trying to move the issue of Microstamping. NRA requests members contact the Senate and voice your strong opposition to AB 352.

This bill would, commencing January 1, 2007, expand the definition of unsafe handgun to include semiautomatic pistols that are not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters, that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched into the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and which are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired.

The latest information and contact tools can be found at:
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?summary=ab352

FIX YOUR GUN - FACE A FELONY

In AB352, the proponents seek to mandate that all new semi-automatic handguns introduced in 2007 would be required to have information (make, model & serial number) about the firearm "micro-stamped" on the surface of parts of the handgun. This "micro-stamped" information would supposedly be transferred onto the cartridge case of the ammunition when it is fired.

The technology being mandated in AB352 has not been studied or tested in the real world and is only available from a single source and would create a government sanctioned monopoly for that company.

The advocates of AB352 claim that the addition of this requirement in the manufacturing of handguns for California will assist law enforcement by creating additional evidence for solving crimes. In committee hearings the author admitted that the “micro-stamped“ cartridge cases could not even be used for evidence!

There is NO SUPPORT from the California law enforcement organizations, That includes the California Police Chiefs Association (Cal Chiefs). The Police Officers Research Association of California (PORAC) opposes AB 352.

The parts of the handgun that would have the 25 microns deep (half the thickness of a fine human hair) "micro-stamping" etched on them can be easily replaced without the use of tools. The markings on the parts will also be degraded and easily erased with the normal wear and tear in using the handgun.

A review of federal law has revealed that AB352 would make the everyday practice of maintaining and repairing firearms (as outlined in the handgun owners’ manual) a felony. If a person needed to replace commonly worn out “micro-stamped” parts to keep their handgun safely operating, that person would be violating Federal law because the alteration, removal and obliteration of a manufacturer’s or importer's markings on those parts carries the penalty of up to ten years in federal prison and $250,000.00 fine. If AB352 becomes law: If you “FIX YOUR GUN you FACE A FELONY.”

Mike

[Charliegone]

Oh God...this guy doesn't quit does he? I believe it was Enstein that said someone who tries to do something over and over again is insane. Insane In the Membrane Koretz!

[6172crew]

Mike, we have seen this lame *** law more than twice now, how come we dont see a push from our guys in power to have a approved AW list or maybe a CCW reform bill?

It seems like one of these times this thing is going to pass why dont we meet him with a wacky bill each time he trys to get us with one?

Fight fire with fire.

[AxonGap]

Smokescreen legislation that cries "Look at me everyone, I'm actually doing something!". Nice legacy building, Koretz!

[m1aowner]

Flippin moron is not enough of an insult for this man. My four year old niece has more original thoughts in one second than that guy has in one year.

[LeoC]

I copied the talking points Mike listed as part of the email, hope that's ok.

Dear Senator,
Unbelievably, Assemblymember Koretz’s ridiculous ‘handgun microstamping’ bill is again in play. This bill should die for the same reasons it died when it was first introduced. It is completely unworkable. As a refresher as to why this bill would be useless:

In AB352, the proponents seek to mandate that all new semi-automatic handguns introduced in 2007 would be required to have information (make, model & serial number) about the firearm "micro-stamped" on the surface of parts of the handgun. This "micro-stamped" information would supposedly be transferred onto the cartridge case of the ammunition when it is fired.

The advocates of AB352 claim that the addition of this requirement in the manufacturing of handguns for California will assist law enforcement by creating additional evidence for solving crimes. In committee hearings the author admitted that the “micro-stamped“ cartridge cases could not even be used for evidence!

There is NO SUPPORT from the California law enforcement organizations, That includes the California Police Chiefs Association (Cal Chiefs). The Police Officers Research Association of California (PORAC) opposes AB 352.

The parts of the handgun that would have the 25 microns deep (half the thickness of a fine human hair) "micro-stamping" etched on them can be easily replaced without the use of tools. The markings on the parts will also be degraded and easily erased with the normal wear and tear in using the handgun.

A review of federal law has revealed that AB352 would make the everyday practice of maintaining and repairing firearms (as outlined in the handgun owners’ manual) a felony. If a person needed to replace commonly worn out “micro-stamped” parts to keep their handgun safely operating, that person would be violating Federal law because the alteration, removal and obliteration of a manufacturer’s or importer's markings on those parts carries the penalty of up to ten years in federal prison and $250,000.00 fine. If AB352 becomes law: If you “FIX YOUR GUN you FACE A FELONY.”

The technology being mandated in AB352 has not been studied or tested in the real world and is only available from a single source and would create a government sanctioned monopoly for that company.

The cost to manufacturers to design and implement ‘microstamping’ parts to their guns and the added expense that will inevitably be passed down to Californian gun owners has been grossly and negligently underestimated. This bill is wholly unworkable and naively unrealistic.

I sincerely believe that Assemblymember Koretz should receive a public reprimand for wasting the legislature’s valuable time with this ill-thought out bill. He obviously has no working knowledge of firearms design and function, nor an accurate view of the root causes of gun crimes (ie. the CRIMINALS), so he proposes a bill that would inconvenience and possibly create felons out of lawful Californian gun owners.

Please vote against AB 352 (Koretz)

Sincerely yours,
LeoC

Anybody feel free to use whatever parts to compose and send your own emails

[xenophobe]

The manufacturer of the microstamping equipment is heavily lobbying for this bill. That is the only reason it is still in existence, and they are directly responsible for this bill. They're the ones convincing the politicians that it is feasable, even though it's already been examined and considered a waste of time, money and resources. The same with the Serialized Ammunition... There is only one company that is really pushing this.

[m1aowner]

Oh please tell us who the manufacture is? A little cash in Kortez's freezer?

Originally Posted by xenophobe

The manufacturer of the microstamping equipment is heavily lobbying for this bill. That is the only reason it is still in existence, and they are directly responsible for this bill. They're the ones convincing the politicians that it is feasable, even though it's already been examined and considered a waste of time, money and resources. The same with the Serialized Ammunition... There is only one company that is really pushing this.

[xenophobe]

I don't know who it is. I heard the report of their 'pitch' from someone in firearms forensics. From what I gathered even the proprietor of the technology knows how worthless it is, but is still pushing it because it will make him rich.

[SemiAutoSam]

Dont these people know what a brass catcher is ?

If this thing wood pass it would just be a logistical nightmare.

John does gun was stolen so thats one that we can take off the list of firing pin serial numbers or at least maybe that would be one they would be on the lookout for more ?

Whats wrong with balistic tests the way they are now ?

[paradox]

I've been trying to dig up where the money for this is coming from. While I haven't found a smoking gun, I have found some interesting stuff:

The holder of the microstamping patent is:
Lizotte; Todd E. (Manchester, NH)
Identification Dynamics, LLC (Pottstown, PA)
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...AND+ammunition
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...AND+ammunition

According to http://www.followthemoney.org neither Todd Lizotte nor Identification Dynamics, LLC contributed anything to Cali politicians.

According to http://www.opensecrets.org, Todd Lizotte has donated the following:
LIZOTTE, TODD E MR?MANCHESTER,NHno03109
HITACHI VIA MECHANICS USA INC/ENGIN
8/31/2004
$250
Bush, George W

LIZOTTE, TODDE MR?MANCHESTER,NHno03109
NANOVIALP/ENGINEER / OWNER
11/19/2001
$250
Republican National Cmte

LIZOTTE, TODDE MR?MANCHESTER,NHno03109
NANOVIALP/ENGINEER / OWNER
1/23/2002
$250
Republican National Cmte

[mikehaas]

Originally Posted by 6172crew

Mike, we have seen this lame *** law more than twice now, how come we dont see a push from our guys in power to have a approved AW list or maybe a CCW reform bill?

It seems like one of these times this thing is going to pass why dont we meet him with a wacky bill each time he trys to get us with one?

Fight fire with fire.

I know it seems like years (my, how time doesn't fly when you're rights are under constant attack), but Microstamping was only introduced last year, 2005 being the first of a 2-year legislative cycle. it passed it's house of origin (the Assembly) by the 2005 deadline, passed the required Senate committees but then languished in the Senate (where it still is, of course). Despite reports to the contrary (probably by groups that needed to do some fundraising), it has remained inactive since 2005 and was only "re-awakened" in the last few days.

But, I believe AB 352 is expected to be amended. That means, if it DOES pass the Senate (nobody should be surprised if that happens), we have another crack at it in the Assembly when it goes back for the concurrence vote. Normally, we have a better chance of stopping anti-gun legislation in the Assembly (despite AB 352's history).

I know, fight fight-with-fire is a good tactic, and NRA has been trying to do that in introducing lots of pro-gun bills. This year, we started off with SIX, and 3 have passed their house of origin (the antis have only gotten 2 that far this year). I know they are not "pro-gun" enough for some on the forum. That's OK - NRA doesn't always do things the way I'd prefer either, but the important thing is to keep working together because public infighting just keeps us from making progress.

Gun-owners can't launch big public battles for (hopefully) obvious reasons - we are outnumbered. But NRA is "fighting smart" - in addition to the incremental gains being attempted (which is how we lost our rights in CA), they are constantly improving our standing with the legislature, which is how we can pass even small pro-gun issues in this hostile environment.

And each year we do that and the greater degree we do that gets us closer to the day when we CAN try something larger. (But IMO, every anti-NRA post just pushes that day off farther in the distance.)

For now...
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?summary=ab352 (oppose)
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?summary=ab2111 (support)
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?summary=ab2714 (oppose)
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?summary=sb59 (oppose)
...are the increments on which to focus, if you want to help slide the scale a bit more "forward". (BTW, it's too early to contact the governor on ANY of these issues.)

Oh, and we ALSO need to get as many OTHERS to join in as possible. So while we're executing the battle plan, we also need to make room for others in our foxholes. BTW, you guys are welcome in mine ANYTIME. :-)

Mike

[m1aowner]

Mr. Hass, can you find out what manufactures will be responsible for providing micorstamping support to the state, and gun makers. I think we need to let these a holes know were aware of their no bounds greed. We have to expose these fat backs. I'm sure the NRA can find this out. Right?

[paradox]

Originally Posted by m1aowner

Mr. Hass, can you find out what manufactures will be responsible for providing micorstamping support to the state, and gun makers. I think we need to let these a holes know were aware of their no bounds greed. We have to expose these fat backs. I'm sure the NRA can find this out. Right?

I'm pretty sure it is http://hitachi-via-usa.com/, because Todd E. Lizotte’s previous company NanoVia has this to say at their site http://nanovia.com/ (now registered to Hitachi Digital Graphics):

A Statement

To all our customers and technology partners worldwide we would like to announce that NanoVia's semiconductor and microelectronic assets were purchased by an industry leader. As of September 2003, NanoVia has closed its facilities and operations.

Furthermore, NanoVia's assets in its Ballistic program were also acquired by a firm that has technical and marketing expertise better suited to pursuing and implementing the technology within a government and defense related marketplace.

From the Management and Staff of NanoVia

So it will be a huge Japanese conglomerate who profits from Americans having their second amendment rights chipped away. I bet there are some WWII vets who would be mighty pissed at this turn of events.


A Hitachi prisoner of war camp (U.S. National Archives)
(from http://japanfocus.org/article.asp?id=541)

[mikehaas]

Originally Posted by m1aowner

Mr. Hass, can you find out what manufactures will be responsible for providing micorstamping support to the state, and gun makers. I think we need to let these a holes know were aware of their no bounds greed. We have to expose these fat backs. I'm sure the NRA can find this out. Right?

While that would probably feel pretty good, I would suggest that it is much more effective to focus on the legislature, specifically on the specific committeee or body that ab 352 is facing. Hammering on that company just won't change anything, at least in the time-frame we have in which to produce results.

At this moment, AB 352 is before the senate and a vote could come at any time. I always try to note the bill's progress here and provide contact tools and info for the appropriate body:
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?summary=ab352

I appreciate the sentiment. Thanks for getting fired up!

Mike

[6172crew]

Originally Posted by mikehaas

NRA doesn't always do things the way I'd prefer either, but the important thing is to keep working together because public infighting just keeps us from making progress.

And each year we do that and the greater degree we do that gets us closer to the day when we CAN try something larger. (But IMO, every anti-NRA post just pushes that day off farther in the distance.)


Oh, and we ALSO need to get as many OTHERS to join in as possible. So while we're executing the battle plan, we also need to make room for others in our foxholes. BTW, you guys are welcome in mine ANYTIME. :-)

Mike

I agree Mike, just get pissed when I see some scam being pushed at us time and time again, it like they didnt hear us the first time.

[aklover_91]

Makes sense, criminals always re-register stolen guns, right?

[m1aowner]

Alaready sent a message to Kortez with my contact info. Like that will do any good. Sent a response to the committee also.

[AntiBubba 2.1]

Mike Haas,

By determining the company that makes the microstamping technology, we can determine if a financial link between them and Koretz exists. It's time to shine a bright light on the roaches.

Remember, there is an "I" in NRA-and I want to be able to fight this crap on every front. The Senate and Assembly are only one front.

[DrjonesUSA]

Um, guys; a long email like the one Leo drafted is NOT effective, IMO.

Elected officials get a staggering number of emails, phone calls, letters, etc.

Long emails only serve to drown out your message, which is to voice either support or opposition to a specific bill.

A letter/email for the purpose of expressing support or opposition to a piece of legislation should be as short as possible.

Something like the following is ideal: (This is what I sent regarding AB 2714)


Hello.

I am writing to urge you to vote AGAINST AB 2714.

This bill would provide, subject to exceptions, that no ammunition or reloaded ammunition designed and intended to be used in a handgun may be delivered pursuant to a retail transaction unless the purchaser personally presents bona fide evidence of his or her identity and age, as specified, to the seller of the ammunition.

This unConstitutional bill would infringe upon the rights of law-abiding American citizens to own and USE firearms by attacking the sales of ammunition.

Again, please vote NO on AB 2714.

Regards,
Drjones



Anything longer than that probably doesn't even get read and may well get completely ignored.


NOW, this is NOT to say that you can not or should not send longer emails/letters/articles/essays/whatever, I'm simply stating that if your intent is to express support or opposition to a specific bill, you are best served keeping it short, sweet and polite.


Thanks and keep writing!!!

[JPN6336]

Everytime I write an email in opposition of bills like this I get more and more frustrated. The basic flaw, as I'm sure all on this board know, is that criminals by definition don't obey laws and so only us law abiders are limited. It is such a basic common sense idea that I can't believe those that we elected to represent us and make our laws don't understand it. It makes me madder to think that many of them probably do understand, but know the majority of the voting public don't and push anti-gun bills to get re-elected.

[DrjonesUSA]

Originally Posted by JPN6336

Everytime I write an email in opposition of bills like this I get more and more frustrated. The basic flaw, as I'm sure all on this board know, is that criminals by definition don't obey laws and so only us law abiders are limited. It is such a basic common sense idea that I can't believe those that we elected to represent us and make our laws don't understand it. It makes me madder to think that many of them probably do understand, but know the majority of the voting public don't and push anti-gun bills to get re-elected.

That's because gun control is NOT about "safety" or reducing crime: the sole purpose of any and all gun control is to disarm law-abiding citizens and to make it more difficult for them to purchase, own, carry, shoot and use firearms.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying, stupid or ignorant, or some combination thereof.

Period, end of story.

[blkA4alb]

The argument that my mom always uses against guns is that they make it easier for a husband (or anyone) to just kill another person (in the house or otherwise.) Like in a domestic dispute. Any rebuttles out there?

[JPN6336]

Originally Posted by blkA4alb

The argument that my mom always uses against guns is that they make it easier for a husband (or anyone) to just kill another person (in the house or otherwise.) Like in a domestic dispute. Any rebuttles out there?

So do kitchen knives, baseball bats, chainsaws, etc.

[Glock22Fan]

I'd like to get a half dozen of these guns and fire the same (reloaded) brass through each of them. Then challenge these idiots to tell me which gun did the deed.

We all know about the brass catchers, that revolvers don't throw brass around and that anyone can pick up a bunch of brass at the range and throw it around at a crime scene ("OMG, the BG fired 376 rounds from 123 different weapons!")

Has anyone told them about the extremely expensive Maryland "fired cartridge" database that infallibly identifies guns, and has never resulted in a conviction?

However, they know full well that this won't work. They don't care. It will cost us a lot of money and price some of us out of owning guns. That's their real agenda.

[Glock22Fan]

Originally Posted by blkA4alb

The argument that my mom always uses against guns is that they make it easier for a husband (or anyone) to just kill another person (in the house or otherwise.) Like in a domestic dispute. Any rebuttles out there?

They also make it easier for her, or her husband (assuming she's still married), to stop a BG from killing her. Which does she trust more, herself, her husband or some drug-crazed home invader?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by blkA4alb

The argument that my mom always uses against guns is that they make it easier for a husband (or anyone) to just kill another person (in the house or otherwise.) Like in a domestic dispute. Any rebuttles out there?

There's about 300 million privately owned firearms in the U.S.

Somewhere between 30% and 45% of households have at least 1 firearm - the distribution is definitely uneven, but even the best available data, from the General Social Survey, can't get the information; apparently gun owners are not being very forthcoming, and there is no validated proxy to count. The Census Bureau says there were 111.3 million households in 2003, so there are roughly 33 to 50 million households which have firearms.

The 2004 FBI data shows 14,121 murders, of which 1,804 involve some family member as victim [table 2.11, Murder Circumstances, by Relationship - Uniform Crime Reports]. 9,326 of all the 2004 murders were committed with firearms (about 66%).

1,804/33,000,000 (the worst case - all the family member murders by gun, which is unlikely, and the smallest number of households) is 0.0000546, - about 57 chances in a million. The real likelihood is probably somewhere between 24/million and 36/million in a year (66% of the 1,804 divided by 33 and 50 million households).

With all those guns around, it's pretty unlikely one will be used by one family member against another.

And remember, these are MURDERS - intentional killings. WISQARS tells us that firearms accidents - I-didn't-know-it-was-loaded, it-went-off-when-I-dropped-it events accounted for 730 deaths in 2003. Things which might be ruled 'manslaughter' are not broken out, so far as I can find; UCR reports the initial charge, as given by the reporting agency, and does not followup on prosecution or dismissal.

More people died from simple falls than were murdered with firearms - 17,229 to 11,920 in 2003. More people were accidentally poisoned - 19,457 - than murdered with firearms. More people suffocated - 12,992.

Take Mom shooting some day - it's safer than a lot of other things she might do.

[dwtt]

Letter sent to Liz Fig again, and I think she'll ignore me again and vote pro-ban. I'm kinda glad Liz Fig didn't make it to the Lt. Gov. finals on June 6, but I'm afraid to think where she might resurface again in the future.

[Glock22Fan]

I know someone who says that nobody should own a gun because he once pointed a gun at his partner in anger.

"Yes," I said, "but you didn't actually shoot, did you?"

"Even though you shouldn't have gotten that far, if you can control yourself eventually, why do you think the rest of us can't?"

[sohijiro]

the company whos pushing the microstamping bill is ravens forgen they have the patents. they build anti-skateboard stuff. it was all over the newspapers . i remember all this from the last time they tried to push this crap


www.ravensforge.com

[DrjonesUSA]

Originally Posted by sohijiro

the company whos pushing the microstamping bill is ravens forgen they have the patents. they build anti-skateboard stuff. it was all over the newspapers . i remember all this from the last time they tried to push this crap


www.ravensforge.com

Are you sure about that?

[dwtt]

When does the legislative year end? I know the fiscal year ended in June, but does the legislative year end in December? How much life does AB352 have left? I just received a letter from Liz Fig, who represents Fremont, and she gives the same response she always does, which means she will vote for AB352 when it goes to the floor. I hope that never happens, though.

[chiefcrash]

According to my little NRA email, it's on the senate floor for a vote TODAY

just thought you'd like to know

[DrjonesUSA]

Originally Posted by MRex21

I received this notice as well. Does anyone know the outcome?

So what happened??

www.leginfo.ca.gov shows the last activity on this bill being JUNE 28 - over a month ago!

WTF is going on?????

[ketec_owner]

The schedule shows they are out of session until August 7.

[tenringtaz]

Originally Posted by DrjonesUSA

Are you sure about that?

Actually, RavensForge is not the patent holder - it is a company in a company in PA.
Inventors: Lizotte; Todd E. (Manchester, NH)
Assignee: Identification Dynamics, LLC (Pottstown, PA)

Appl. No.: 10/232,766
Filed: August 29, 2002

Not surprisingly, they hold the patent on the reading technology as well...

<sigh>

[tenringtaz]

Also, if you ever want to find a patent, the US Patent Office has a site that makes it pretty easy to find a patent.
http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html

[johnny_22]

Received an unofficial vote count email this morning:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/bill/a...sen_floor.html

UNOFFICIAL BALLOT
MEASURE: AB 352
AUTHOR: Koretz
TOPIC: Firearms: microstamping.
DATE: 09/06/2005
LOCATION: SEN. FLOOR
MOTION: Assembly 3rd Reading AB352 Koretz By Dunn
(AYES 20. NOES 19.) (FAIL)


AYES
****

Alarcon Alquist Bowen Cedillo
Chesbro Dunn Escutia Figueroa
Kehoe Kuehl Lowenthal Migden
Ortiz Perata Romero Scott
Simitian Soto Torlakson Vincent


NOES
****

Aanestad Ackerman Ashburn Battin
Campbell Cox Denham Ducheny
Dutton Florez Hollingsworth Machado
Maldonado Margett McClintock Morrow
Poochigian Runner Speier


ABSENT, ABSTAINING, OR NOT VOTING
*********************************

Murray

[Librarian]

Umm, that vote was September 6, 2005.

[johnny_22]

Here is the date and time on the email.

Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 0539 -0700 (PDT)
From: comments@www.leginfo.ca.gov
Subject: OFFICIAL CALIFORNIA BILL INFORMATION


Not sure why this information was emailed out being nearly a year old.

Sorry about that.