[Apostolos]

Is there a law that says you can only carry (CCW) with the guns listed on your permit or is that just a policy that's not enforceable by law? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

[Mark in Eureka]

It is the law. If you do not carry your listed handguns you are out of luck. Your CCW is only good for the listed weapons. There are a few exceptions, retired law enforcement, and such.

[Apostolos]

Do you have a reference for that? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

[socalguns]

http://leginfo.ca.gov/
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/

[Apostolos]

So you want me to do all the work?

Hopefully someone has already researched this and has the PC handy if it is in fact law.

God Bless,
David

[linuxgunner]

It's a fact. I'm not going to go through and quote it for you, but that's how the law is. Why would they bother listing specific guns on the permit if it didn't matter? Some counties will require you to qualify with each individual gun to get it on the permit in fact.

Come and discuss CCW in a forum that's dedicated to that topic: http://californiaccw.org

[Punkermonkey]

12051. (a) (1) The standard application form for licenses described
in paragraph (3) shall require information from the applicant
including, but not limited to, the name, occupation, residence and
business address of the applicant, his or her age, height, weight,
color of eyes and hair, and reason for desiring a license to carry
the weapon. Applications for licenses shall be filed in writing, and
signed by the applicant. Any license issued upon the application
shall set forth the licensee's name, occupation, residence and
business address, his or her age, height, weight, color of eyes and
hair, the reason for desiring a license to carry the weapon, and
shall, in addition, contain a description of the weapon or weapons
authorized to be carried, giving the name of the manufacturer, the
serial number, and the caliber. The license issued to the licensee
may be laminated.

[Apostolos]

Thank you.

So what is the penalty for carrying a gun not listed on your permit?

God bless,
David

[BLFD1]

Originally Posted by Apostolos

Thank you.

So what is the penalty for carrying a gun not listed on your permit?

God bless,
David

Uhh, Jail !

[linuxgunner]

It's exactly the same as carrying without a permit. That is generally a misdemeanor. I hear people getting short of breath saying how you'll go to jail for packing without a permit, but I have yet to hear of any real-world cases where an ordinary guy, no priors, no gang affiliation, no other problems, gets caught packing, and gets sentenced to time in jail. If someone knows of a case of this happening please post about it.

[gotgunz]

Originally Posted by Apostolos

Thank you.

So what is the penalty for carrying a gun not listed on your permit?

God bless,
David

Ugh??????????????????????

Loss of the priviledge to have said permit?
Duh!

[50 Freak]

Okay, can someone point out the exact code that specifies the penalties for being caught with a non listed (as on your CCW permit) handgun.

I checked the CCW forum and nothing came up.

[linuxgunner]

Originally Posted by 50 Freak

Okay, can someone point out the exact code that specifies the penalties for being caught with a non listed (as on your CCW permit) handgun.

I checked the CCW forum and nothing came up.

It is exactly 100% the same as carrying without a permit. The permit entitles you to carry the guns that are listed, nothing else. It isn't a generic permit to carry a generic weapon. Just like your permit wouldn't let me carry, your permit for your 1911 doesn't let you carry your Glock (if the Glock isn't on the permit).

Your question doesn't make sense. It's like asking, "what's the penalty for carrying a gun while using someone else's permit?" Huh? That permit is only valid for one person, for the guns list on the permit. It has no other application.

Does this make sense? Sort of. The reason is that a sheriff could require you to qualify with each of the list guns. It's reasonable that he wouldn't want you packing a gun you haven't qualified with. I believe LEOs have the same type of restriction.

But does it really make sense? No. People who are going to be stupid with guns are going to do it no matter what the law says.

[50 Freak]

Your question doesn't make sense. It's like asking, "what's the penalty for carrying a gun while using someone else's permit?" Huh? That permit is only valid for one person, for the guns list on the permit. It has no other application.

Does this make sense? Sort of. The reason is that a sheriff could require you to qualify with each of the list guns. It's reasonable that he wouldn't want you packing a gun you haven't qualified with. I believe LEOs have the same type of restriction.

Your arguement doesn't make sense. You are countering my request for written proof of illegality of carrying a non CCW permit gun by comparing it to a second party carry a gun using the first party's permit.

Your CCW lists you (name, age, height etc) and three guns. And when I got my CCW, I never "qualified" with any of the three guns. When I went to pick up my permit, I presented three guns for the Sheriff to type the serial numbers on the Permit and that was it.

Actually up to a couple of years ago, we were only allowed two guns on the permit. Turns out it was a miscommunication between the DOJ and the Sheriff's dept. The DOJ said two guns and the Sheriff's dept decided to limit it to two on the permit. When it was pointed out that the DOJ's 2 gun rule was a "suggestion" the Sheriff's dept moved it to 3 guns as there were three lines on the permit only.

In some other states, the CCW permit allows to you carry any handgun that is legally registered to the permit holder.

Again, can anyone point me out to the written code that specifies only three guns are allowed or the penalties for a CCW holder caught carrying a non permit listed gun.

I'd be interested to see it.

[Apostolos]

Originally Posted by blackedoutharley

Ugh??????????????????????

Loss of the priviledge to have said permit?
Duh!

There should be a minimum age limit in order to register on this forum. Therefore we wouldn't have to put up with adolescent posts such as the above one.

God Bless,
David

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by Apostolos

There should be a minimum age limit in order to register on this forum. Therefore we wouldn't have to put up with adolescent posts such as the above one.

God Bless,
David

Nor those who for whatever reason can't/don't want to read the cpc.



-hanko

[Apostolos]

Originally Posted by -hanko

Nor those who for whatever reason can't/don't want to read the cpc.



-hanko

Ouch!

That's what I get for being lazy.

God Bless,
David

[Apostolos]

Originally Posted by 50 Freak

Again, can anyone point me out to the written code that specifies only three guns are allowed or the penalties for a CCW holder caught carrying a non permit listed gun.

I'd be interested to see it.

Likewise.

God Bless,
David

[50 Freak]

I'm sorry, been a long day....what's a CPC?

Ca Penal Code???

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by Apostolos

Ouch!

That's what I get for being lazy.

God Bless,
David

Dave, I wasn't being too charitable with my reply & I apologize.

What I was trying to point out that spending an hour or so every once in a while reading prk weapons laws will put you ahead of most prk residents...though i admit it's boring as hell and generally a pita.

Please pardon me.

-hanko

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Okay, can someone point out the exact code that specifies the penalties for being caught with a non listed (as on your CCW permit) handgun.

This is interesting; I just looked through all my CCW paperwork from the SO's and the DOJ; the DOJ info doesn't say anything about being restricted to certain firearms, but the actual 'license' itself requires yu to list make/model/caliber/serial #.
The SO's paperwork DOES state under "Procedural Information for Permits for he Carrying of Concealed Weapons" Section 3: Restrictions, Part 3 (snip) 'Only weapons listed on the license may be carried concealed.' But doesn't reference a CPC section.

Curiouser and curiouser.

[50 Freak]

This is exactly what I mean. I have always thought that it was against the law the carry non listed CCW permit guns as that is what people have told me.

But where is the code that states that? I can't find anything. Wonder if it's one of those DOJ "58 DA's thing".

[trinity9]

Originally Posted by linuxgunner

It's exactly the same as carrying without a permit. That is generally a misdemeanor. I hear people getting short of breath saying how you'll go to jail for packing without a permit, but I have yet to hear of any real-world cases where an ordinary guy, no priors, no gang affiliation, no other problems, gets caught packing, and gets sentenced to time in jail. If someone knows of a case of this happening please post about it.

I agree. Fear is a tool. I still have the weapon that I was packing in three separate instances, one in which the weapon was discharged. Good cops and good judgement sent me on my way.

trinity9

[50 Freak]

I was caught packing (before I got my CCW) back when I lived in LA. It was during the riots (reason I was packing). I had got in a car accident and the LE found the gun on the floor when they took my GF to the hospital (I rode along in the ambulance).

While I was waiting in the emergency waiting room the LE came and told me he ran the numbers to see if it was a stolen gun and since nothing came up, he took out the bullets and turned it into the station. And that I can pick it up anytime as long as I brought proof of ownership..

Good LE, good judgement...but I'm a little bias in this case.

[gotgunz]

Originally Posted by Apostolos

There should be a minimum age limit in order to register on this forum. Therefore we wouldn't have to put up with adolescent posts such as the above one.

God Bless,
David

And the post prior to mine that said: " UgH? Jail!" (which I liked although it is an unlikely reaction to carrying off permit) didn't invoke the same response from you as mine did? Perhaps.... Oh, nevermind. I find responding to this painfully similar to explaining to my daughter (adolescent) that there are idiots in the world.

You are correct, there should be an age limit in order to post so that post such as yours don't show up on here.
I will keep my "adolescent" comments limited to this.
"GROW UP!"

[Apostolos]

Originally Posted by blackedoutharley

And the post prior to mine that said: " UgH? Jail!" (which I liked although it is an unlikely reaction to carrying off permit) didn't invoke the same response from you as mine did?
"GROW UP!"

He used a smiley, you didn't.

He was playfully jesting. You came across like an adolescent. Your continued tone only affirms an adolescent attitude.

God Bless,
David

[SemiAutoSam]

Here is a question for those that know

If one has been issued a permit and one is carrying a handgun that is listed on the permit does one have to carry concealed ?

Meaning can the person issued the permit carry open (not concealed)? as without the permit isn't this against the law ?

Thanks for any insight in advance.

[guimus]

packing.org lists a 'de facto' right to carry in CA. I have no personal experience (nor anecdotal for that matter) but they are under the impression that a 1st offense is a misdemeanor slap on the wrist written into the law to keep politicians and their rich (and packing) friends from going to jail, and also saves them the trouble of having to get a permit (impossible in some areas.) If caught committing a crime and also carrying concealed, though, I doubt that this would help much...you'd still be looking at enhancements for using a firearm in the commission of a crime, so you should make damn sure your life is in danger (as seen by a jury and da, no less) before pulling out that illegally-carried firearm.

[SemiAutoSam]

IC
SO this is done as there arent as many people to freak out within low density counties?

Tree thanks for the info

[Apostolos]

Originally Posted by guimus

packing.org lists a 'de facto' right to carry in CA. I have no personal experience (nor anecdotal for that matter) but they are under the impression that a 1st offense is a misdemeanor slap on the wrist written into the law...

Here is an interesting excerpt from John Machtinger in his book, How to Own a Gun & Stay Out of Jail (California 2001 edition).

If you are caught with a concealed, loaded gun in violation of the concealed gun law and the loaded gun law, you can be charged with two crimes. It's common for defendants with a clean record to be charged with misdemeanor violation of both the concealed gun law and the loaded gun law. A plea bargain is often offered where the defendant pleads guilty to one misdemeanor, and the other is dropped.

Any conviction for a crime in the Firearms chapter of Penal Code (Section 12000-12101), however, can have serious implications for your gun rights. Once you have a conviction for violating the concealed gun law, the loaded gun law, or any other Firearms chapter law, if you carry illegally again and are caught you risk being convicted of a felony. As a felon, you would lose your right to have a gun of any kind. This is in addition to a possible prison term! (pg. 65, 66).

Pertinent PC 12025(b)(7), 12031(a)(2)(G)

Looks like packing.org has it right.

God Bless,
David

[SemiAutoSam]

Im very famaliar with rattlers In a time frame of about 1 week While clearing brush and gathering up fallen oak and pine trees I killed about 6 adults and 4 very young ones. The chain saw tends to scare them off but at times I didnt even see young ones them until they were wrapped around my weedwhip.

Ive been trying to get my 4.10 year old to stay close to the house or car when we venture out into ther city.

we live on a 1/4 section and alot of the land is wild lots of critters to see some deadly.

[blkA4alb]

Originally Posted by Apostolos

There should be a minimum age limit in order to register on this forum. Therefore we wouldn't have to put up with adolescent posts such as the above one.

God Bless,
David

So because of a useless post you assume he is an adolescent and then make a generalization that people under 18 have nothing to add to this forum? The kids are the future of this sport. If you disown them then you can consider yourself the last generation to protect and use the 2A. We need the kids interested in this sport if you want it to last past your generation (whichever it may be.)

[Apostolos]

Originally Posted by blkA4alb

So because of a useless post you assume he is an adolescent...

Yes. Without meeting him, I only have his demeanor as it's communicated in his post to go by. I'm reasonably sure that most here would characterize his post as adolescent. Therefore it's a logical assumption. His follow up post only validated my assumption of adolescence, maybe not in age, but in attitude.

and then make a generalization that people under 18 have nothing to add to this forum?

Now that's an unfounded assumption. I didn't mention a specific age, and I don't see how you can infer that I do not value the opinion of minors based on a reference to an ambiguous age limit.

God Bless,
David

[Apostolos]

Originally Posted by 50 Freak

Actually up to a couple of years ago, we were only allowed two guns on the permit. Turns out it was a miscommunication between the DOJ and the Sheriff's dept. The DOJ said two guns and the Sheriff's dept decided to limit it to two on the permit. When it was pointed out that the DOJ's 2 gun rule was a "suggestion" the Sheriff's dept moved it to 3 guns as there were three lines on the permit only.

Here is an interesting anecdote. When my permit was issued to me by the city I live in, it only had three lines for gun listings. I asked if I could put a 4th on there and they said no problem. They crammed a 4th at the bottom.

So I don't think the exact number of guns listed on the permit is regulated by law. It's probably up to the discretion of the issuing agency.

God Bless,
David

[QuarterBoreGunner]

It's probably up to the discretion of the issuing agency.

That is correct (at least in dealing with the SO's). The permit has four lines but currently the FTO that advises the Sheriff has limited the number of firearms to two (2). The explanation being that you become more proficient with the two as opposed to juggling your skill set with four. Sort of a variation on the old "beware the man that carries only one gun; he probably knows how to use it very well". I agree with this philosophy in principle; but would also like to leave my options open.
Currently I have my trusty G30 and an S&W Airweight .38 on my permit and find that those two cover pretty much all my needs, but I wouldn't mind having my K40 or even the NAA .32 on it for deep backup.
Or maybe I'm just paranoid.

Actually, when they still allowed 4 firearms, I tried to get my NAA on the permit but the SO's have a regulation that when you do your range qual, you have to draw and fire from the holster that you intend to carry the piece in and I never bothered to get a holster for the Lil' .32. I always figured I'd just drop it in a pocket. So no holster = no qualification = empty slot on my permit.

[50 Freak]

Actually, when they still allowed 4 firearms, I tried to get my NAA on the permit but the SO's have a regulation that when you do your range qual, you have to draw and fire from the holster that you intend to carry the piece in and I never bothered to get a holster for the Lil' .32. I always figured I'd just drop it in a pocket. So no holster = no qualification = empty slot on my permit.

What qualification are you guys talking about??? When I got my permit, we shot some pistols out at the Sheriff's range. Our instructer was the local Swat instructor. He just made sure we were knew the range rules, gun safety handling and that we could proficiently shoot. He then taught us point shooting.

Very informal, some guys there brought stuff we knew they were not going to use as a CCW. We had a guy there with a S&W 44 (oldtimer) and another guy with a CZ-52. Not exactly ideal hideout pistols.

After that was done, he let us break out our carbines (I happened to have a 50 in my car at the time) and we tested penetration on a old caddy parked on the range. That was fun.

The permit has four lines but currently the FTO that advises the Sheriff has limited the number of firearms to two (2). The explanation being that you become more proficient with the two as opposed to juggling your skill set with four. Sort of a variation on the old "beware the man that carries only one gun; he probably knows how to use it very well". I agree with this philosophy in principle; but would also like to leave my options open.

On my permit I have a G20 (10mm for those perps that just won't go down). G27 for everyday use and a Seecamp 32 for my tuxedo/speedo gun

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Mmm. The SO's qualification course of fire is pretty weak but it's still required to pass in order to get the Sheriff's signature on the bottom line.
Course of fire is:

5 rounds @ 15 yards in 30 (!!!) seconds. Then reload and repeat. 30 seconds is a heck of a long time...
5 rounds @ 7 yards in 15 seconds, reload and repeat.
5 rounds @ 3 yards in 5 seconds, reload and repeat.
85% of the shots must be withing the 8 ring on a standard B27.

The FTO that was running the range was great, said that his personal opinion was that every law abiding citizen should carry and that he was going to make sure that everyone in the class would pass the firing portion. And everyone did, no surprises. Even the rancher from So SJ that was using his SAA. Yee Ha cowboy!

[50 Freak]

Our training was something like this (been a long time so I don't remember exactly):

5 rounds @ 7 feet (15 secs)
3 rounds @ 7 feet (3 secs) point shooting/no sights
3 rounds @ 7 feet - mag change...and 2 rounds
12-15 rounds @ 10 feet controlled mag dump

I don't think there was any "test", they just watched to make sure you knew what you were doing. No one failed or anything like that.

My training officers were great, they warned me that even though my CCW was good for the whole state, that the "big city cops" (SF/LA) may try to take my piece if I'm ever caught with it in their town.

[blkA4alb]

Originally Posted by Apostolos

...Now that's an unfounded assumption. I didn't mention a specific age, and I don't see how you can infer that I do not value the opinion of minors based on a reference to an ambiguous age limit.

God Bless,
David

My assumption was that your "age limit to stop adolescent posts" would do just that, stop people under 18 from posting here as they are adolescents. While you did not say what age you meant that is what I felt you were implying.

[50 Freak]

Gentlemen, please kiss and make up

Any fighting should be done on other boards. I don't think there was any ill intent meant on either side. Let's keep this discussion to the relevant issue.