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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 11-04-2010, 11:52 PM
captainsdad2 captainsdad2 is offline
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Angry High Cost of California CCW

Today I inquired about getting a Calif CCW. According to my city PD the total cost will be close to $1000.00 by the time I pay for the background check, the Psych evaluation, finger printing, the CCW class and qualification, the city and state filing fees, and other assorted fees, and of course even then the CCW will only be issued if the Chief feels like issuing it.

Besides working towards "shall issue" there has to be a way to reduce the final cost. I have both Florida and a Utah CCWs and they cost nowhere near this much.
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2010, 12:01 AM
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Who told you, what is their rank, what is their name? What position are they within the department? The reason I ask is in the sig line.

The most you can make you spend for a determination is $20 for the local licensing fee, plus $95 for the DOJ background check.

Do you know Glendora's actual policy? Don't rely on what they say. Ask for their application handout and packet.
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:49 AM
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Default Thanks for the info.

I was given this info by the background investigator who does the background checks for ccws. He is a retired captain. If i remember correctly, the fee for a psych eval is approx $350. Then the fingerprinting was approx $100 plus a fee for submitting to the state and a filing fee for the city. Of course there is the cost of takeing a ccw class, which I have been told is approx $200.00

The other problem is that the current Chief is retireing next month so he doesn't want to issue a ccw prior to the new Chief takeing over. Of course no one knows who the new Chief is going to be. Since I am in LA county going to the LASO is a waste of time and effort.

Any info you have would be welcome.
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  #4  
Old 11-05-2010, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by captainsdad2 View Post
I was given this info by the background investigator who does the background checks for ccws. He is a retired captain. If i remember correctly, the fee for a psych eval is approx $350. Then the fingerprinting was approx $100 plus a fee for submitting to the state and a filing fee for the city. Of course there is the cost of takeing a ccw class, which I have been told is approx $200.00

The other problem is that the current Chief is retireing next month so he doesn't want to issue a ccw prior to the new Chief takeing over. Of course no one knows who the new Chief is going to be. Since I am in LA county going to the LASO is a waste of time and effort.

Any info you have would be welcome.
I live in Azusa....they won't issue CCW's, and I am 98% sure Glendora also defers to LASO. Rest assured the CalGuns Foundation is working on it.
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  #5  
Old 11-05-2010, 12:58 AM
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The psych eval, which they can require of you *only if they require it of every applicant*, has a statutory cost ceiling of $150.00.

The maximum local fee is $100.00, of which on $20.00 can be collected up front. The State fee (DOJ's PC 12052 background check/report fee) is $95.00.

The training at $200 is definitely an expensive course, but almost certainly lawful until we can get one or two CCW case wins behind us.

The PD must accept your application and provide you with a determination within the statutory deadlines established in Cal. Penal Code Section 12052.5:

Quote:
The licensing authority shall give written notice to the
applicant indicating if the license is approved or denied within 90
days of the initial application for a new license or a license
renewal or 30 days after receipt of the applicant's criminal
background check from the Department of Justice, whichever is later.
Does this licensing authority issue for self defense or does it require more specific "good cause"?

Please check out our CCW guide here: http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/dow..._CCW_Guide.pdf

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Originally Posted by captainsdad2 View Post
I was given this info by the background investigator who does the background checks for ccws. He is a retired captain. If i remember correctly, the fee for a psych eval is approx $350. Then the fingerprinting was approx $100 plus a fee for submitting to the state and a filing fee for the city. Of course there is the cost of takeing a ccw class, which I have been told is approx $200.00

The other problem is that the current Chief is retireing next month so he doesn't want to issue a ccw prior to the new Chief takeing over. Of course no one knows who the new Chief is going to be. Since I am in LA county going to the LASO is a waste of time and effort.

Any info you have would be welcome.
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  #6  
Old 11-05-2010, 1:05 AM
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The city can only charge you $95 for the livescan plus $20 for the local fees up front. My understanding is that most jurisdictions don't charge the $95 livescan fee until after approval so in most cases it is only $20 out of pocket to try.

After approval, assuming the do take the fingerprinting fee up front
There is up to $80 more for the local fee.
Plus the psych eval which can be no more than $!50
Training costs will vary so your guess is as good as mine.

Even after we get shall-issue throughout the state the only part of that likely to go away is the $150 psych eval. and the training might go down in price if a lot of people start taking classes.

In short you are out, at most $115 to start the process, and more probably only $20. If they try to collect more than that up front let Gray know.

Then, after you are approved it is at most (with psych eval) either $230 (+$95 if they don't livescan until you are approved) addition not counting training which has no set fee because there is no statewide standard.

This totals to a maximum of $345 plus training for a 2 year license. It is expensive, yes.

Unless you have a true imminent threat, or you know your city is likely to accept your good cause I would personally wait. If you choose to apply anyway and get denied they can't charge you a new finger printing fee for each subsequent application so it will be a max of $20 for any subsequent application.

Possibly the best thing you can do for US, the calguns community, is sign up in the call for volunteers thread. This is where Brandon is coordinating people to work on fixing the system overall.
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  #7  
Old 11-05-2010, 1:26 AM
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Glendora is within LA county. As ANDREWMENDEZ mentioned I too imagine that they deffer to the LA Sheriffs Office. The likely hood of being approved by LASO is abysmally low at this point in time. If Glendora does in fact issue CCW I would be very surprised.

Last edited by KarLorian; 11-05-2010 at 4:47 AM..
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  #8  
Old 11-05-2010, 3:11 AM
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Default Thanks for the info.

You all have been very helpful. Thank you very much. The info on cost limits and the chart have given me knowledge I didn't have before.
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  #9  
Old 11-05-2010, 4:44 AM
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They are correct. $1,000 is about right: CCW class, fees, gun, nice holster, practice ammo and some good defense rounds.
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Old 11-05-2010, 5:48 AM
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They are correct. $1,000 is about right: CCW class, fees, gun, nice holster, practice ammo and some good defense rounds.
LOL.
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  #11  
Old 11-05-2010, 6:25 AM
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Originally Posted by coq View Post
They are correct. $1,000 is about right: CCW class, fees, gun, nice holster, practice ammo and some good defense rounds.
Local fee $100
shrink......$150**
DoJ..........$95
Class......$250

CCW = $595

Good Holster $80
Good ammo $25

Now we are $700..

DROS fee...$25

That leaves about $275 for the handgun with tax. Hi-point 9mm here I come

** maybe if I fight the shrink test and win, I can bump up to a Ruger.
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Old 11-05-2010, 7:39 AM
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I live in Glendora and yes they use the LASo, I am patiently biding my time until the process is further along.
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Old 11-05-2010, 7:42 AM
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I've spent about 2K and am still waiting for mine. It is supposed to be ready in a couple weeks though. (Ventura Co)
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2010, 8:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainsdad2 View Post
Today I inquired about getting a Calif CCW. According to my city PD the total cost will be close to $1000.00 by the time I pay for the background check, the Psych evaluation, finger printing, the CCW class and qualification, the city and state filing fees, and other assorted fees, and of course even then the CCW will only be issued if the Chief feels like issuing it.

Besides working towards "shall issue" there has to be a way to reduce the final cost. I have both Florida and a Utah CCWs and they cost nowhere near this much.
I see that my county, Alameda, still has a requirement for $1mil liability insurance. I'm not sure how much that costs, as Alameda wouldn't issue to me until I get that gig with the "Stones, but that just adds to the "tax" on exercising a Constitutional right.
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Old 11-05-2010, 8:25 AM
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I've spent about 2K and am still waiting for mine. It is supposed to be ready in a couple weeks though. (Ventura Co)
Can you give details on itemized cost? 2K sounds brutal.
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Old 11-05-2010, 8:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tylerderdan View Post
I live in Glendora and yes they use the LASo, I am patiently biding my time until the process is further along.
OK, I know for a fact that LASD does NOT require psychological evaluations for CCW holders.

LASD asks for $10 for good cause/good moral character determination, not a thousand dollars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joefreas View Post
I've spent about 2K and am still waiting for mine. It is supposed to be ready in a couple weeks though. (Ventura Co)
Two thousand dollars? Tell me what you're spending that kind of money on, fees wise.
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  #17  
Old 11-05-2010, 8:26 AM
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I just handed the Placer county Sheriff a check for $210.00 to find out in 2 weeks to 3 months if I am approved.
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Old 11-05-2010, 8:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Wherryj View Post
I see that my county, Alameda, still has a requirement for $1mil liability insurance. I'm not sure how much that costs, as Alameda wouldn't issue to me until I get that gig with the "Stones, but that just adds to the "tax" on exercising a Constitutional right.
One other county dropped their liability insurance requirement when they realized that no insurance company would write a policy that specifically covered a self defense shooting, and even if they did, they would not cover the governmental actor due to GC818 and GC821.
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Old 11-05-2010, 8:36 AM
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Can you give details on itemized cost? 2K sounds brutal.
Was only $200 + whatever the price per page of my background. Came to like 25 bucks. I paid for private instruction for classes/quals I qualified with 3 guns at $100 per extra gun not to mention the $400 base price. This was mainly because I was in a hurry.

I went kinda Aps S*** on holsters buying inseam left and right handers for all guns. With mag pouches for the shoulder holsters about $400 there.

Ammo, range wasnt included for the qual so I pd there

Bought a ruger LCP @$500 but I guess I cant really count that.

So I guess not quite 2K. A lot of time and effort.

Still waiting for that envelope.

I guess you could get it for about $3-400 if you already had the carry gun(s), holsters, and the time to sit down in Torrence for classes on Saturdays.
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Old 11-05-2010, 8:37 AM
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BTW there was no Psych eval- (and I turned in my app in Feb, Didnt get the interview until Sept.)
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  #21  
Old 11-05-2010, 9:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
One other county dropped their liability insurance requirement when they realized that no insurance company would write a policy that specifically covered a self defense shooting, and even if they did, they would not cover the governmental actor due to GC818 and GC821.
Isn't that more like GC 818 and 821 make the coverage of government actors unnecessary?
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Old 11-05-2010, 9:19 AM
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The cost annoys the heck out of me, but even more so, the fact that this only buys you two years of coverage. When you think that you can get most CCW's for between $100 - $250 including training and that most of them last for five or six years, it makes the cost of a Cali CCW extortionately expensive on a "per week" basis. Renewals are expensive as well. A Utah renewal is ten bucks plus a photo, and lasts another five years.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:18 AM
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2 years is way too short. I hear the renewal is a pain also. I was very excited in Feb when I turned in my app... now that has worn off and I sort of wished I didn't waste my time/money. I probably won't renew the damn thing anyway. I guess it was more the point that I hate being told that I can't do something that pushed me to get it. I hate being told no!

My buddy is applying in Chico (I think thats Butte Co), it will probably take him a couple weeks and cost about $75. There needs to be a better system-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock22Fan View Post
The cost annoys the heck out of me, but even more so, the fact that this only buys you two years of coverage. When you think that you can get most CCW's for between $100 - $250 including training and that most of them last for five or six years, it makes the cost of a Cali CCW extortionately expensive on a "per week" basis. Renewals are expensive as well. A Utah renewal is ten bucks plus a photo, and lasts another five years.
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Walking around with a banana in a holster won't do anything but get you laughed at.
"A true patriot would repeal the patriot act"
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Last edited by joefreas; 11-05-2010 at 10:22 AM..
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
One other county dropped their liability insurance requirement when they realized that no insurance company would write a policy that specifically covered a self defense shooting, and even if they did, they would not cover the governmental actor due to GC818 and GC821.
Does any one know how the insurance requirement is allowed given CA PC 12054(d)?
Quote:
(d) Except as authorized pursuant to subdivisions (a), (b), and
(c), no requirement, charge, assessment, fee, or condition that
requires the payment of any additional funds by the applicant may be
imposed by any licensing authority as a condition of the application
for a license.
And what is GC818 & GC821?

Last edited by Pat Riot; 11-05-2010 at 10:35 AM..
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:31 AM
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Wow I think I paid around $150 total for everything (not including holsters and ammo). The class was only $20 and that was private, I called the guy and ended up taking the class at his house the next day and qualifying with 2 guns. The interview with the sheriff took about 5 minutes. I had my permit within a few weeks. Del Norte County has its pluses when it comes to CCW.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by joefreas View Post
2 years is way too short. I hear the renewal is a pain also. I was very excited in Feb when I turned in my app... now that has worn off and I sort of wished I didn't waste my time/money. I probably won't renew the damn thing anyway. I guess it was more the point that I hate being told that I can't do something that pushed me to get it. I hate being told no!
I underlined the particular, but are you actually serious here? You have a strong possibility of being issued a carry license and you're saying "I sort of wished I hadn't applied". There are people in the SF Bay area and in LA who would love to apply, people who have been specifically threatened by specific people, but they won't because they know it is impossible or they think it's impossible.

Do not dishonor them by putting out feelers that you feel it isn't "worth it". There would be people who would do anything to get a license, and by making the implication that it isn't "worth it", the Brady Campaign and the Sheriff's Association wins. Also keep in mind when renewal time comes up, they will be forced into compliance with the 90 day/30 day rule.

Quote:
My buddy is applying in Chico (I think thats Butte Co), it will probably take him a couple weeks and cost about $75. There needs to be a better system-
There is already a better system: Forcing the sheriff's to comply with the 90 day/30 days after results of livescan rule. Ventura has been breaking the law for years and no one called them on it. That was then and this is now.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:38 AM
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LUCKY! I would move there but the (14 hour one way) daily commute would kill me!
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Originally Posted by pepsi2451 View Post
Wow I think I paid around $150 total for everything (not including holsters and ammo). The class was only $20 and that was private, I called the guy and ended up taking the class at his house the next day and qualifying with 2 guns. The interview with the sheriff took about 5 minutes. I had my permit within a few weeks. Del Norte County has its pluses when it comes to CCW.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:42 AM
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I'm still getting it, sheese.. I think the waiting/pain in the a** they put you through is a big deterrent. I jumped through all the hoops and I think its great that things are hopefully going to change. I'm all for 2A rights man!

And if you look closely you will see SORT OF.. Still happy to be one of the few who actually gets one-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
I underlined the particular, but are you actually serious here? You have a strong possibility of being issued a carry license and you're saying "I sort of wished I hadn't applied". There are people in the SF Bay area and in LA who would love to apply, people who have been specifically threatened by specific people, but they won't because they know it is impossible or they think it's impossible.

Do not dishonor them by putting out feelers that you feel it isn't "worth it". There would be people who would do anything to get a license, and by making the implication that it isn't "worth it", the Brady Campaign and the Sheriff's Association wins. Also keep in mind when renewal time comes up, they will be forced into compliance with the 90 day/30 day rule.



There is already a better system: Forcing the sheriff's to comply with the 90 day/30 days after results of livescan rule. Ventura has been breaking the law for years and no one called them on it. That was then and this is now.
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Ron Paul

Last edited by joefreas; 11-05-2010 at 10:44 AM..
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  #29  
Old 11-05-2010, 10:50 AM
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So now we have to submit to a livescan and a psych eval in order to get a permit to exercise a constitutional right?
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by pepsi2451 View Post
Wow I think I paid around $150 total for everything (not including holsters and ammo). The class was only $20 and that was private, I called the guy and ended up taking the class at his house the next day and qualifying with 2 guns. The interview with the sheriff took about 5 minutes. I had my permit within a few weeks. Del Norte County has its pluses when it comes to CCW.
Shasta County is similar, my interview was actually with a clerk, which was reviewed by an assistant to the Sheriff. Maybe 165 plus CCW Initial class around 65. We got it good compared to the majority of California. I guess it's the best of the worst!?
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:55 AM
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lol @ whining about all the money one spent on pistols, holsters, and extra training as part of the "high cost of a CCW"....
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Pat Riot View Post
Does any one know how the insurance requirement is allowed given CA PC 12054(d)?
It clearly is not, however I've learned that it's easier to explain that no liability insurance would cover an individual during a self defense shooting outside of the home, not at any price, and even if they did, they would not make the sheriff a third party liability payee (they will claim the government has immunity and therefor doesn't need the money).


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Originally Posted by Pat Riot View Post
And what is GC818 & GC821?
The law which prevents you from suing the DMV for issuing a drivers license to someone who runs into you on the road. This was used during Guillory v. Gates by Orange County to try to get out from under any liability payments. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled against using state liability exemptions for civil rights violations under 42USC1983. Basically, the sheriff can only be sued for denying licenses, not sued for issuing. Any sheriff who tells you they will get sued and be liable for shootings is absolutely wrong and lying to you.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:57 AM
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why is it that the L.A. Sherif Dept. is so anti-CCW? I called my city police & they said for a CCW (santa monica PD) I need to go through Sherif b/c I live in Los Angeles County & that way I wont be restricted to CCW only in santa monica city. Makes sense right. Then I look into the CCW from LASD and hold the phone I find out Chief Lee Baca is very anti-ccw unless your a celebrity like stalone or you got the extra $$ - WTF, please dont vote for that idiot to be chief - he doesnt even let off duty sherif cary until they also get a CCW

this is a sad situation in our great state, CalGuns to the rescue!!!!
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
So now we have to submit to a livescan and a psych eval in order to get a permit to exercise a constitutional right?
Livescan is a statutory requirement under PC12052. The psych evaluation is an optional add on that few counties do (in fact, I can only think of two). Remember, the 5th amendment applies here. You can walk into an evaluation and hand the shrink a form that says "I do not speak to anyone without an attorney present, I an exercising my right to remain silent" and there's not a thing. It would be a 5A violation if they fail your test over it, not even including 2A issues.

Besides, Richards and Peruta will kill the psych evaluations anyway, CGF will annihilate the "extra" requirements in state courts, and so on. We will not get a court ruling out of the 9th Circuit saying that fingerprinting and self defense good cause licensing of carry burdens RKBA. 4th Circuit on the other hand......

Last edited by Gray Peterson; 11-05-2010 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:17 AM
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Also a side note on the Psych eval, they can only require applicants to obtain a Psych Eval, if their standard procedure for their Employees (Non sworn) also requires psych eval's.
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by santa9monica View Post
why is it that the L.A. Sherif Dept. is so anti-CCW? I called my city police & they said for a CCW (santa monica PD) I need to go through Sherif b/c I live in Los Angeles County & that way I wont be restricted to CCW only in santa monica city. Makes sense right. Then I look into the CCW from LASD and hold the phone I find out Chief Lee Baca is very anti-ccw unless your a celebrity like stalone or you got the extra $$ - WTF, please dont vote for that idiot to be chief - he doesnt even let off duty sherif cary until they also get a CCWthis is a sad situation in our great state, CalGuns to the rescue!!!!

Huh?
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
Also keep in mind when renewal time comes up, they will be forced into compliance with the 90 day/30 day rule.
I'm sure I must have just missed it, and I tried searching, but what does this mean? I know you're busy, so I apologize for asking you to re-explain yourself. Also, it can't be said enough:
Thank you VERY MUCH for all the work you are(and have been) doing on our behalf!!!
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by madmike View Post
I'm sure I must have just missed it, and I tried searching, but what does this mean? I know you're busy, so I apologize for asking you to re-explain yourself. Also, it can't be said enough:
Thank you VERY MUCH for all the work you are(and have been) doing on our behalf!!!
The Penal Code states they have 90 days after your application is received by the sheriff, or 30 days after a livescan is done, whichever is later.....
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santa9monica View Post
why is it that the L.A. Sherif Dept. is so anti-CCW? I called my city police & they said for a CCW (santa monica PD) I need to go through Sherif b/c I live in Los Angeles County & that way I wont be restricted to CCW only in santa monica city. Makes sense right. Then I look into the CCW from LASD and hold the phone I find out Chief Lee Baca is very anti-ccw unless your a celebrity like stalone or you got the extra $$ - WTF, please dont vote for that idiot to be chief - he doesnt even let off duty sherif cary until they also get a CCW

this is a sad situation in our great state, CalGuns to the rescue!!!!
The underlined bit is FUD. A CCW is valid state wide whoever issued it unless they print limitations on it. That's possible, and maybe S.M.'s practice, but should be fightable if your Good Cause extends outside the city boundary.

And it isn't Chief Baca, it is Sheriff Baca.
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmike View Post
I'm sure I must have just missed it, and I tried searching, but what does this mean? I know you're busy, so I apologize for asking you to re-explain yourself. Also, it can't be said enough:
Thank you VERY MUCH for all the work you are(and have been) doing on our behalf!!!
See post #5, above.

And Gray works like a madman for a state that's not even his own.
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