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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 10-27-2010, 8:08 AM
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Default CCW in contra costa county. Is it possible?

Hello to all cal-gunners. I hear that it's unheard of to get a CCW in contra costa county. I live in Antioch and the crime rate here is crazy. It's a war zone. Gang shootings every day. They tried to break in To my house two weeks ago. People here need to defend themselves out here. Has anyone been able to get a CCW in Contra costa county before?
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  #2  
Old 10-27-2010, 8:16 AM
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Not in recent history. I'm also in Antioch and hear shooting on a pretty regular basis in my neighborhood. I've asked around a little bit ( my cousin is a Sargent for coco county ) and get the same answer from everyone. Not possible. I guess us contra costa folks aren't supposed to protect ourselves, just lay down and die.
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  #3  
Old 10-27-2010, 8:42 AM
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Contra Costa has over a dozen points of illegality with their CCW policy, including refusing applications from residents of cities with their own police departments, taking all money up front, charging too much money for the license, supposedly the ability to refuse people's applications from certain unincorporated areas because "too many licenses have been issued in area", and so on. All of these policies are unlawful and illegal, and Contra Costa Sheriff's Office's violations of the Penal Code and Salute v. Pitchess is worthy of special attention from me and others.

When you put a sheriff's agency into their box of what they can and can't do legally, and they can't go out of that box without getting slapped, they are very limited as to what they can do and they are required to do by state law, and change their reasons for issuance accordingly, especially when they see the full extent of what can be done to them if they do not cave. Reforms were made to the system in 1998, the problem was that at the time and the times afterwards, the organizations that were existing didn't see the payoff, the internet was not as well developed as it was now, and the only folk that truly cared either just moved out of state, or were ineffective due to lack of funds and backing.

That was then, this is now.
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Old 10-27-2010, 9:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredieusa View Post
Sooo... who is the our trial applicant for CoCo ???
Hee hee heee hee hee hee hee.....
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  #5  
Old 10-27-2010, 9:42 AM
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Can't say I hear shootings here every night, but I think living by the freeway drowns them out haha. I have gotten my car stolen 3 times in the last 5 years though. I'd be interested in a CCW if it were possible here. Things can spill over pretty quick on the fringes of Richmond...
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  #6  
Old 10-27-2010, 9:50 AM
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  #7  
Old 10-27-2010, 9:52 AM
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I used to live in antioch, when i was 18 my car was stolen at gun point. Sucks cuz the newer part is so nice. I hope CGN can do something about CoCo or Ima have to move to Sac.
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  #8  
Old 10-27-2010, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredieusa View Post
hey I sent my name via e-mail... and I know of a few more that did.. right here in CoCo
Agreed, but I know two applicants in particular who would be excellent for this purpose. Remember, one of the questions in the application states "Are you involved in any litigation"?

Hilarity ensues.

Please volunteer and please encourage people and vendors (such as gun shops) to sponsor Contra Costa County. Contra Costa, though not part of the unholy trinity of gun control in California, will likely be one of the more resistant counties given that they have a lot of stake in the illegality of their process.....

Last edited by Gray Peterson; 10-27-2010 at 10:28 AM..
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  #9  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:07 AM
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Default Some Old History on Contra Costa.

Eventually Jim March may drop in and make a comment, but until he does I will fill in some blanks.

Years back Jim March tried to get a CCW permit in Contra Costa county, he sued the county twice, once in state court and once in federal court.

In state court Jim lost because he hadn't filled out an application. Apparently the Contra Costa sheriffs department pre-screened people before they would even give you an application.

The Judge told the county that Jim had a right to submit an application and directed them to do so. They also had to change policy and make applications available.

Jim spend many hours digging dirt, he was the pioneer and was responsible for laying much of the ground work we have going on today.

In Federal court, Jim went after CCW under equal protection. Jim's problem with his case was that he couldn't find a minority who would be willing to be a co plantiff.

Jim was warned by his civil rights attorney that the federal judge could use a rational basis standard and if he did, his case would be toast.

Well, the Judge did use "rational basis" and that allowed him to ignore over 700 pages of evidence that Jim submitted.

For those of you who are new to the site, here is the simple breakdown when it comes to our rights in court.

rational basis. The government states they need to restrict your rights because of a perceived need. When you challenge them, you have to prove to the court that the law/regulation is bad. The nutshell is you lose.

intermediate scrutiny. It is better than rational in that the government has to justify the law/regulation. Of course this is a gray area, while the state has to justify it's actions, the court can give them lee way.

Strict Scrutiny. This is where the court views that a law that is in conflict with a fundamental right be required to show a compelling public interest. This is where laws get thrown out or modified so that their infringement on a fundamental right is done in the least intrusive manner.

Sheriff Rupf has been down the being sued route twice, so Contra Costa county has been down this road before. Last time they hired an outside firm to deal with Jim, so it cost them some money.

This time around, things will be far different. Jim's lawsuits were Pre Heller, so he could not bring in a 2nd amendment cause of action.

The issue is now is not if we have the 2nd amendment in California, but what level of scrutiny we will have. I believe the US Supreme court ruling in MacDonald set the standard as "Strict Scrutiny", the issue is will the 9th circuit do so in the "Nordyke case".

Sacramento county and Contra Costa are right next to each other and the sheriffs across the state do talk to each other.

Yolo county's sheriff was the head of the state sheriffs association when he testified against AB357 earlier this year. Of course since Sacramento rolled over, he is out solo facing Alan Gura.

Something tells me that with Sacramento rolling over, with Yolo soon to be nailed, and let's not forget the Peruta case down in San Diego that all the sheriffs in California are going to see the walls come tumbling down.

I don't know what Calguns gameplan is, but something tells me that key people in Calguns definitely have interest in Contra Costa county and they will accept nothing short of unconditional surrender.
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:15 AM
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nicki, agreed except that I'm not sure if the strict scrutiny standard is a slam dunk quite yet. I think you're right that after Nordyke and Peruta that should be more clear...
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  #11  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicki View Post

I don't know what Calguns gameplan is, but something tells me that key people in Calguns definitely have interest in Contra Costa county and they will accept nothing short of unconditional surrender.
We have several "tips of the spear" in Contra Costa County. We still are OK with as many volunteers as we can get.

"And the Walls of Jericho Came Tumbling Down......"

Last edited by Gray Peterson; 10-27-2010 at 11:23 AM..
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  #12  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicki View Post
The issue is now is not if we have the 2nd amendment in California, but what level of scrutiny we will have. I believe the US Supreme court ruling in MacDonald set the standard as "Strict Scrutiny", the issue is will the 9th circuit do so in the "Nordyke case".
AND...according to some of the comments the judges made to opposing counsel during the Nordyke oral arguments,it would seem they are leaning thath way...(wishful thinking?)
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  #13  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicki View Post
Eventually Jim March may drop in and make a comment, but until he does I will fill in some blanks.

Years back Jim March tried to get a CCW permit in Contra Costa county, he sued the county twice, once in state court and once in federal court.

In state court Jim lost because he hadn't filled out an application. Apparently the Contra Costa sheriffs department pre-screened people before they would even give you an application.

The Judge told the county that Jim had a right to submit an application and directed them to do so. They also had to change policy and make applications available.

Jim spend many hours digging dirt, he was the pioneer and was responsible for laying much of the ground work we have going on today.

In Federal court, Jim went after CCW under equal protection. Jim's problem with his case was that he couldn't find a minority who would be willing to be a co plantiff.

Jim was warned by his civil rights attorney that the federal judge could use a rational basis standard and if he did, his case would be toast.

Well, the Judge did use "rational basis" and that allowed him to ignore over 700 pages of evidence that Jim submitted.

For those of you who are new to the site, here is the simple breakdown when it comes to our rights in court.

rational basis. The government states they need to restrict your rights because of a perceived need. When you challenge them, you have to prove to the court that the law/regulation is bad. The nutshell is you lose.

intermediate scrutiny. It is better than rational in that the government has to justify the law/regulation. Of course this is a gray area, while the state has to justify it's actions, the court can give them lee way.

Strict Scrutiny. This is where the court views that a law that is in conflict with a fundamental right be required to show a compelling public interest. This is where laws get thrown out or modified so that their infringement on a fundamental right is done in the least intrusive manner.

Sheriff Rupf has been down the being sued route twice, so Contra Costa county has been down this road before. Last time they hired an outside firm to deal with Jim, so it cost them some money.

This time around, things will be far different. Jim's lawsuits were Pre Heller, so he could not bring in a 2nd amendment cause of action.

The issue is now is not if we have the 2nd amendment in California, but what level of scrutiny we will have. I believe the US Supreme court ruling in MacDonald set the standard as "Strict Scrutiny", the issue is will the 9th circuit do so in the "Nordyke case".

Sacramento county and Contra Costa are right next to each other and the sheriffs across the state do talk to each other.

Yolo county's sheriff was the head of the state sheriffs association when he testified against AB357 earlier this year. Of course since Sacramento rolled over, he is out solo facing Alan Gura.

Something tells me that with Sacramento rolling over, with Yolo soon to be nailed, and let's not forget the Peruta case down in San Diego that all the sheriffs in California are going to see the walls come tumbling down.

I don't know what Calguns gameplan is, but something tells me that key people in Calguns definitely have interest in Contra Costa county and they will accept nothing short of unconditional surrender.
This actually gives me some hope of actually being able to receive a CCW in Contra Costa County.
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  #14  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:39 AM
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I believe that the true questions is not if but when.

I would guess that you will have to wait less than 2 years before the answer to your original question is an unqualified yes.
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Old 10-27-2010, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicki View Post
Yolo county's sheriff was the head of the state sheriffs association when he testified against AB357 earlier this year. Of course since Sacramento rolled over, he is out solo facing Alan Gura.
Acc to http://www.calsheriffs.org/index.php...d-of-directors , for 2010 - 2011, the sheriff of San Benito Co. is the president of the CA Sheriffs' Assoc.

Yolo's sheriff is on the Board of Directors though.
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  #16  
Old 10-27-2010, 3:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Acc to http://www.calsheriffs.org/index.php...d-of-directors , for 2010 - 2011, the sheriff of San Benito Co. is the president of the CA Sheriffs' Assoc.

Yolo's sheriff is on the Board of Directors though.
and so are a few of our "primary objectives"...
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  #17  
Old 10-27-2010, 4:25 PM
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I threw my name in the hat a while back but haven't heard back from anyone yet. Brandon's looking into some things for me and perhaps it'll be time to make a move soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
We have several "tips of the spear" in Contra Costa County. We still are OK with as many volunteers as we can get.

"And the Walls of Jericho Came Tumbling Down......"
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  #18  
Old 10-27-2010, 4:44 PM
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4 homicides last year and 7 homicides so far this year....i was not talking about just homicides i was saying shootings in antioch, robberies, assaults,... thank god they are not good shots or the numbers would be much higher....
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  #19  
Old 10-27-2010, 5:05 PM
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chances are the criminals are coming from oakland, hayward etc.

If you saw on claycord.com a few weeks ago the hoodlums fighting in walnut creek and a youtube video was posted, they were from Concord, hayward and a few other higher crime cities.

anyways, as for the CCW, hopefully someone can make a change for the better for us.
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Old 10-27-2010, 5:10 PM
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I have a feeling I'm going to love to see this play out
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  #21  
Old 10-27-2010, 5:21 PM
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un-reported does not necessarily mean it doesn't happen
i was transferred to cc co. in 2000 (pittsburg) and for the first 7-8 years i awoke to gunfire every weekend, and several times throughout the week, rarely was it followed by sirens or police. it was so prevalent i actually thought that at some time a stray would come through my house (and no it was not duck season) and i used to joke about it at work to my colleagues who most of which lived in antioch.
it seems as though the last few years baypoint (formally known as gunpoint) and pittsburg have cooled down to some degree, however antioch seems to be increasing in crime rates and gangs (this info. is from the people that live there and the ones i work with)
just because it doesn't hit the "cc times" does not mean it does not happen.

prior to transferring to pittsburg i was working overseas for about 6-7 years. it was during that time i lost my ccw (kern co.) as i could not renew it per the stipulations and time frame. i did not pursue one in cc county as i felt it would be a complete waste of my time based on everything i read and heard.
needless to say a lot has changed during my years overseas what was once legal is now a felony, and even the pistols i had listed on my ccw you can not buy anymore,,, pity

do not take this as meaning that other parts of cc county do not have more crime than pittsburg and antioch, that is not my intention in writing this. only to point out that a good deal does not hit the news (not just here but everywhere)

yes antioch and pittsburg have their fair share of ""Jr."" gang members. the only problem with "Jr's" is they continue to evolve and try to be like the "Sr.s" and in some ways try and out-due the Sr.'s if only to prove a point.
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Last edited by gbp; 10-27-2010 at 5:36 PM..
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Old 10-27-2010, 5:23 PM
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I have to turn in my NV resident CCW for a non-res, I have a perfect record (except a speeding ticket) and will (fingers crossed) starting a new job in Oakland very soon but I will be living in Concord.

Let me know if I can help.
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Old 10-27-2010, 5:31 PM
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This thread is not about who's city is more dangerous. I'm saying I live in Antioch and see and hear all the shootings From my house and listening to the police scanner.

Last edited by CA_AR-15_925; 10-27-2010 at 7:20 PM..
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Old 10-28-2010, 9:07 AM
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Back on topic
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Old 10-28-2010, 9:11 AM
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lol my bad 6172

so What CAN we do to get ccw? realistically that is. I thought it would be cool to get one for the other 13? states........ but when the heck am I really going to need that?
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Old 10-28-2010, 9:46 AM
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Why don't you volunteer (both 6172 crew and you) for our CCW project? Be part of the solution and work for it.
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:16 AM
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I have a Strong feeling that the New Sheriff with be worse than Ruph when it comes to CCW's.
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PressCheck View Post
I have a Strong feeling that the New Sheriff with be worse than Ruph when it comes to CCW's.
He may outright deny every application until compelled by a court order, but I can guarantee that CoCo County's policy will comply with State law in the not-too-distant future regardless of how they feel about our right to bear arms.
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Old 10-28-2010, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
Why don't you volunteer (both 6172 crew and you) for our CCW project? Be part of the solution and work for it.
As soon as I get job offered I will head down to DMV and get a CA DL and start working on getting the CoCoCounty paperwork in order for a CCW. Im not sure if my NV CCW class will work for CA or not. My current CCW is good until 2012 but will probably change as soon as I change my DL to CA.
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Old 10-28-2010, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6172crew View Post
As soon as I get job offered I will head down to DMV and get a CA DL and start working on getting the CoCoCounty paperwork in order for a CCW. Im not sure if my NV CCW class will work for CA or not. My current CCW is good until 2012 but will probably change as soon as I change my DL to CA.
No, the Nevada licenses are 5 year just like resident licenses.

Don't worry about the class stuff yet. Contra Costa already has their own class for CCW according to the paperwork policy they are making.

-Gray

Last edited by Gray Peterson; 10-28-2010 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 10-30-2010, 1:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6172crew View Post
As soon as I get job offered I will head down to DMV and get a CA DL and start working on getting the CoCoCounty paperwork in order for a CCW. Im not sure if my NV CCW class will work for CA or not. My current CCW is good until 2012 but will probably change as soon as I change my DL to CA.
The COCO county test is a "no brainer. You watch a Long video: take a test, and then shoot an easy qual course of fire.
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