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  #1  
Old 10-24-2010, 7:43 PM
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Default CCW training in Sacramento *important*

CCW training in Sacramento by a security academy (the one close to River City Guns) leaves a lot to be desired. The head instructor spent the first moments telling his class to visit the CADOJ website. He instructed his students to read and keep up to date on changes. This is where the training stopped. I would argue that he has not read the FAQ’s on that site in the last 15 years. The level of incorrect information spewing from his lips became intolerable. More than 50% of the class is spent listening to him pound his chest about what a great special ops guy he is. Shortly after class began I started to jot down incorrect information. Some of which potentially creates felony’s for his students. He did not allow for any questions till the class was over (6:45pm), so the 20-23 year old students just mopped up every word he uttered. I thought I would take the time to type up some of the incorrect information he taught in hopes that some guard who might read this can get more accurate information.

1. Possession of a magazine in California that can accept more than 10 rounds is a Felony. (PC Section 12020 (b)(19-29))

2. Registration is required for all handguns. Handguns imported be new residents prior to 1998 were not required to be registered. (Penal Code 12072(f)(2)) and sales using an FFL were not required until January 1, 1991. Prior to that date an individual could sell to another individual without using a dealer, and there are probably several million firearms in California which have not changed hands since 1990.

3. No caliber less than .380 may be put on a California CCW license. I have no idea from which he dreamt this one up.

4. The question was asked to the class. What cartridge does the 1911 shoot? I responded the 45ACP He said what does that stand for? I replied Automatic Colt Pistol. He said wrong… Its .45 Auto Pistol Cartridge. I just lowered my head and wrote this FUD down. I couldn’t believe it myself.

5. This one was on brandishing PC417. He stated he was in the Sac Sheriff’s office last week and that there 3 CCW holders there crying about losing their permits due to the fact that there shirts had revealed their gun while reaching for product from a top shelf in a store. When I finally questioned him he cut me off and informed me it wasn’t a “State law” it was a “Business law”. Again I just lowered my head and keep taking notes.

6. CCW holders will be forced to drug test after any encounter with law enforcement.

7. It’s illegal to shoot a person with a gun that is not on your permit.

8. Glocks left in the trunk of your car in a Phoenix AZ summer will melt and become inoperable. His Sig can survive a fire and still operate properly. (clearly anti Glock)

9. Bullets must be in a separate compartment from gun. You cannot legally put your bullets and your firearm in the trunk of your car.

10. Firearm parts may not be in the glove box.

11. Cable lock through the barrel creates compliance with “locked container”. No need to put a separate lock on your gun case.

12. 1 gun a month starts at pickup of gun not at time of DROS.

13. Gun locked in container with a single bullet hidden under the foam creates a Felony in California.

He also bragged about how he loans guns out to students for months at a time. He doesnt want one of his students to be without a job simply because they dont have a job. I guess the 30 day loan a gun part doesnt apply to Special Ops guys.
12078PC covers the "infrequent loan" of firearm(s).
He stated that all you need is a letter which includes the duration of the loan and you are good to go to loan out a gun for as long as is necessary.

There was others but is was the way he phrased the sentence not the content of the sentence. I survived the constant and repeated sweeping of the guns at the students. He consistently used real guns to demonstrate shooting in the class. At one time he put a gun to his sons back and click click click with the gun.
Again I posted this so that you that are looking for training understand the level of training you will get. And for the Guards that go through this class. Read the CalDOJ website and make yourself familiar with California gun law before you rely on this instructor for legal advice.
Never once did he mention “Never point any gun at something your not willing to destroy” I guess he was just too cool for that rule.
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Last edited by Mstrty; 10-25-2010 at 10:25 PM..
  #2  
Old 10-26-2010, 5:54 AM
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I'm so glad I didn't go to that lame place...

Don't reinforce bad behavior/bad "instruction". Don't give your money to these clowns.
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  #3  
Old 10-26-2010, 4:31 PM
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Jim can leave a lot to be desired when he talks about laws and procedures, but that's why you gotta love him. Others have pointed it out, but he continues to teach what he does. He preaches safety, not gray areas. The caliber of your average Security guard is about a step above or below your average fry boy. Attempting to point out gray area's or otherwise is near impossible (and open's doors for liability), so he puts heavy emphasis on stupidity and exaggerates extremes, so moron's one blow to the head shy of being legally retarded don't take their gun out and play John Wayne. He tries to point out (and often doesn't do very well) is that one cop with a bad day will ruin your life. In other words don't give them a reason.

I do believe it is an absolute disservice however that he is combining the CCW and Guard Firearms classes. He isn't in the business of offering tactical training or legal analyze, he is in the business of cranking out security guards. Take his class for what it is worth, a cheap 16 hours of instruction, so you can get your CCW and a place that'll keep your records on file for free in the event you lose your copies, as well as let you re-qual for free if you can shoot a 250.


In addition:
To put an emphasis on his military career, in what I'd assume is your effort to symbolize it isn't real? Isn't necessary. The man was a real Green Beret, as was his father. Google Jim or James Gritz, you'll find plenty of information on them... He did the things he talks about, such as hunting fugitives and serving in Korea. Hell his father was the one who talked Randy Weaver down from Ruby Ridge. If you still don't believe his service record, ask him yourself outside of class. He'll be more then happy to show you the album of pictures from Korea and elsewhere he has stashed away in his office.
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Last edited by Bizcuits; 10-26-2010 at 4:34 PM..
  #4  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizcuits View Post
In addition:
To put an emphasis on his military career, in what I'd assume is your effort to symbolize it isn't real? Isn't necessary. The man was a real Green Beret, as was his father. Google Jim or James Gritz, you'll find plenty of information on them... He did the things he talks about, such as hunting fugitives and serving in Korea. Hell his father was the one who talked Randy Weaver down from Ruby Ridge. If you still don't believe his service record, ask him yourself outside of class. He'll be more then happy to show you the album of pictures from Korea and elsewhere he has stashed away in his office.
I agree his mission is to crank out Guards as fast as he can. What I dont understand was the "Im a Green Beret" every moment in his class. It was as a "would you believe me please" moment. Im there to learn about firearm safety not how decorated he is. I do no deny his level of service. I just disagree with his tactics and his insecurity that we were not buying what he was selling. He repeatedly said "If you dont believe me you could Google this or look at this". Really? Thats why Im here?
Was he a green beret. Absolutely. Does that have anything to do with firearm safety for a CCW licence? None what so ever.
People that read this, take what I am saying as information only. You need to decide what level of training you are going to take.

This CCW class will not teach you how to operate a firearm safely, It will not teach you where you can or cannot carry your weapon. It will not teach you firearm law. It will not teach you how to interact with law enforcement if you encounter one. It will teach you that in California you are required by law to inform the officer that you are carrying a weapon.(im still looking for that law.) It will not teach you.
1) The gun is always loaded
2) Do not put your finger on the trigger till you are ready to fire.
3) Know your target and what is behind it.
4) Never point the gun at something you are not willing to destroy.

I cant tell you how many times I watched hip sweep students and even his son. He pulled the trigger at his son 3 times in the back with a real gun. Really? that blue gun on your table just not dramatic enough for you?

This is just an FYI. I guess you all understand my opinion with this type of training. Make up you own mind what type of training you demand.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:45 AM
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I think he's pretty good at what he does and knows exactly what he's doing /shrug sorry you didn't get what you thought you were going to.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:48 AM
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Thanks for the info. This will come in handy as I'm just starting my CCW process. Is there a thread somewhere on this site of recommended places to attend training? I wouldn't mind paying a little more if I receive valuable/accurate training/information.
  #7  
Old 10-27-2010, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by negolien View Post
I think he's pretty good at what he does and knows exactly what he's doing /shrug sorry you didn't get what you thought you were going to.
Dont be sorry for me, Im safe and knowledgeable in firearm law. As a Certified Range Safety officer, I feel sorry for all the information that could of been taught to the kids in the class. Its unfortunate that kids leaving this class will think that have enough knowledge to strap on a gun to protect themselves. I hope for their sake they all continue to seek training.
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Old 10-27-2010, 3:21 PM
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I understand your dissatisfaction completely. I just know that his teaching is what's expected from "Security" schools. He is in fact one of the better ones. For me, he is an easy way to get what I want, not a way to "learn". It's like signing up for a college course and picking the easy professor rather then the better one. The reality is there are a lot better CCW courses out there, hands down. Hell if I had the money and time I'd be taking classes through Tactical Response or a real CCW instructor. I don't though and will instead take the easy route, with a school that'll keep my records on file.
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  #9  
Old 10-27-2010, 8:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcardona1 View Post
Thanks for the info. This will come in handy as I'm just starting my CCW process. Is there a thread somewhere on this site of recommended places to attend training? I wouldn't mind paying a little more if I receive valuable/accurate training/information.
Some places are listed in this post in the Sacramento CCW thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=352779


I don't see how some can say that he knows what he's teaching when it's clearly demonstrated that he's giving out quite a bit of false information.
  #10  
Old 10-28-2010, 9:54 PM
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Thanks for writing down all the misinformation. I attempted to recall everything he said following class, but I was primarily busy just nodding my head and biting my lip.

There was also that one small bit where an M1 Garand has 10 rounds in a clip .
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Last edited by derek@thepackingrat.net; 10-29-2010 at 12:41 AM..
  #11  
Old 10-29-2010, 1:02 AM
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Default M1 Garand

Quote:
Originally Posted by derek@thepackingrat.net View Post
Thanks for writing down all the misinformation. I attempted to recall everything he said following class, but I was primarily busy just nodding my head and biting my lip.

There was also that one small bit where an M1 Garand has 10 rounds in a clip .
The M1 Garand holds eight rounds in a clip.

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  #12  
Old 10-29-2010, 4:21 PM
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8 rounds. That's correct.

The instructor for this class either mispoke or did not know; it was only an addititonal example why this class is either a means to an end or a way to get you in to trouble should one take the information without a second glance.

Cheers
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Old 10-29-2010, 5:10 PM
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The Garand, if chambered in .276 Pedersen, would have held 10 rounds.

Sometimes, you just have to sit in class, knowing it's a means to an end...

Grin & Nod. Grin & Nod. Pass class. Move on.

Last edited by CSDGuy; 10-29-2010 at 5:16 PM..
  #14  
Old 10-31-2010, 11:47 AM
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I took my CCW Training with Ron Etchells yesterday, along with a couple other CalGunners, at Sacto Valley.

It was a great class and we only got rained on, a little. There was about 10 of us there for the class and a couple pick-ups.

The class was $175, which is a little more expensive than the other classes, but you make that up with free re-quals for life and you can attend any of his other classes (shotgun/rifle/pisol) for free also.

Considering the other training that's out there (like the absolute abortion that Bombmaster went to), I'd highly recommend Ron's class.

I doubt you'll be disappointed.
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Old 11-02-2010, 4:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizcuits View Post
Jim can leave a lot to be desired when he talks about laws and procedures, but that's why you gotta love him. Others have pointed it out, but he continues to teach what he does. He preaches safety, not gray areas. The caliber of your average Security guard is about a step above or below your average fry boy. Attempting to point out gray area's or otherwise is near impossible (and open's doors for liability), so he puts heavy emphasis on stupidity and exaggerates extremes, so moron's one blow to the head shy of being legally retarded don't take their gun out and play John Wayne. He tries to point out (and often doesn't do very well) is that one cop with a bad day will ruin your life. In other words don't give them a reason.

I do believe it is an absolute disservice however that he is combining the CCW and Guard Firearms classes. He isn't in the business of offering tactical training or legal analyze, he is in the business of cranking out security guards. Take his class for what it is worth, a cheap 16 hours of instruction, so you can get your CCW and a place that'll keep your records on file for free in the event you lose your copies, as well as let you re-qual for free if you can shoot a 250.


In addition:
To put an emphasis on his military career, in what I'd assume is your effort to symbolize it isn't real? Isn't necessary. The man was a real Green Beret, as was his father. Google Jim or James Gritz, you'll find plenty of information on them... He did the things he talks about, such as hunting fugitives and serving in Korea. Hell his father was the one who talked Randy Weaver down from Ruby Ridge. If you still don't believe his service record, ask him yourself outside of class. He'll be more then happy to show you the album of pictures from Korea and elsewhere he has stashed away in his office.
Having a relative involved in the state sanctioned murder of an innocent housewife and the wounding of a couple of other people which ended up costing the taxpayers well over 10 million dollars in jury penalties and legal fees is not a glowing endorsement. In fact, it kind of fits with the fact that this guy kind of seems like a jack-wagon. Disclaimer...just going by what I read, I've never been to his class or me the man.
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Old 11-02-2010, 5:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BobB35 View Post
Having a relative involved in the state sanctioned murder of an innocent housewife and the wounding of a couple of other people which ended up costing the taxpayers well over 10 million dollars in jury penalties and legal fees is not a glowing endorsement. In fact, it kind of fits with the fact that this guy kind of seems like a jack-wagon. Disclaimer...just going by what I read, I've never been to his class or me the man.
That's not the case. Bo Gritz went in to help get Randy Weaver out of there and wasn't working for/with the Feds.
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Old 11-02-2010, 6:07 PM
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as a disclaimer... I have been teaching ccw classes here in kern since about 1982...and security for years...

so...give it time ...the situation will shake itself out... 2-6 years and you will see folks gravitating to people who don't have ego's the size of the outdoors...and security is not ccw as is noted....

in kern...we have seen the people charge onto the scene and not understand why they can't develop their business...I think it can be catagorized as either big egos or military/cop mindset which doesn't translate to civie world...or poor business practices...

ccw class can be good business...

your learning should not start/stop with the instructor...I think the bible says it well... the spirit of prophecy is subject to the prophet...and all instructors have their foibles and can be wrong....as an aside... I'm not a cop and don't play one on tv... I am a probation officer in a county where I where a uniform, gun, baton and drive a marked ford "police interceptor" etc..... and I arrest alot of people... If I talk to you about how I have "been there" it will usually be to tell you about some poor sod who turned their life around or some hilarious ancecdote...I love the funny stuff... today this idiot.... oh never mind...anyway...everyone has their own personality..

learn..read...carry on...
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Last edited by El Gato; 11-02-2010 at 6:12 PM..
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Old 11-02-2010, 9:37 PM
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There's education. That is good. There's also sitting through a class as a means to an end... If I get the former, great! If I get the latter, well... that doesn't mean I won't seek out an education.
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Old 11-03-2010, 8:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobB35 View Post
Having a relative involved in the state sanctioned murder of an innocent housewife and the wounding of a couple of other people which ended up costing the taxpayers well over 10 million dollars in jury penalties and legal fees is not a glowing endorsement. In fact, it kind of fits with the fact that this guy kind of seems like a jack-wagon. Disclaimer...just going by what I read, I've never been to his class or me the man.
You apparently didn't read much other then the first posters opinion. His dad wasn't a fed, but the Green Beret Colonel who showed up on his own accord and convinced Randy (a fellow Green Beret) to give up.

The fact is if you want to get your training done, USA is a good place that will always keep your records on file in case you lose them. Some of his information is FUD, but it is geared towards the lowest common denominator (security guards). They do honor a $10 calguns discount.

If you want to get real CCW training, then go to another school that specializes in CCW.

Is Gritz anti-glock? Yes, he is an old school dog who believes only steel weapons are worth a damn. I've known him for 5 years and we still tease each other back and forth, because I own Glocks.

If you can't stand some of his FUD, then confront him on it. Send them an email with up to date information...
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Bizcuits View Post
You apparently didn't read much other then the first posters opinion. His dad wasn't a fed, but the Green Beret Colonel who showed up on his own accord and convinced Randy (a fellow Green Beret) to give up.

The fact is if you want to get your training done, USA is a good place that will always keep your records on file in case you lose them. Some of his information is FUD, but it is geared towards the lowest common denominator (security guards). They do honor a $10 calguns discount.

If you want to get real CCW training, then go to another school that specializes in CCW.

Is Gritz anti-glock? Yes, he is an old school dog who believes only steel weapons are worth a damn. I've known him for 5 years and we still tease each other back and forth, because I own Glocks.

If you can't stand some of his FUD, then confront him on it. Send them an email with up to date information...

I would say "Why bother?" I'm quite certain he's been challenged on stuff before. He sounds like a typical old guy that doesn't want to change his opinions, no matter what facts are presented to the contrary.

I'd never give that guy any of my money and I'd advise others not to, either.
Sometimes money is the only thing people understand...
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:43 PM
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BTW, I have to say that qualifying there for the past 5 years for me has be convenient but I will seek elsewhere from now on. I've put up with the FUD and BS longer than I should have but the past 2 qualifications have rubbed me wrong from his Son yelling at me for a tap/rack/continue which was automatic for me. He told me that this is qualifying and not real life, that next time he will kick me off the range which is a crock IMO as I did nothing unsafe and told Jim to dock me 5 points for only 49 rounds hitting the target. I'm also tired of him telling me my M&P is Single Action and not to argue with him lol
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:12 PM
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I will be taking a class with Ron very soon
I think you'll be glad you did.
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Old 11-04-2010, 4:38 PM
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They have no idea how to load ammo either. Their reloads suck. I have never seen so many failures to go bang on a fireing line than the day I spent watching their security officers qualify.
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Old 11-05-2010, 2:37 PM
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I would say "Why bother?" I'm quite certain he's been challenged on stuff before. He sounds like a typical old guy that doesn't want to change his opinions, no matter what facts are presented to the contrary.
Well then I would say don't complain, unless you are willing to at least attempt to address the issue. That's like going to a resturant, getting the wrong food, then complaining to all your friends without first asking the manager to remedy the problem.
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Old 11-05-2010, 2:46 PM
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Well then I would say don't complain, unless you are willing to at least attempt to address the issue. That's like going to a resturant, getting the wrong food, then complaining to all your friends without first asking the manager to remedy the problem.

Because it's Jim's way or the highway
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Old 11-05-2010, 7:57 PM
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Because it's Jim's way or the highway

Screw that noise. There are enough adam henry's in the world, why would I knowingly spend my hard-earned money on a douche like him?
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:04 AM
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Screw that noise. There are enough adam henry's in the world, why would I knowingly spend my hard-earned money on a douche like him?
You didn't lol
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Old 11-06-2010, 2:43 AM
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hey guys, sorry this is a little off topic but i was reading the rules thing that bombmaster was putting up on the first post, i know for regular civ's and mayb armed guards too but, if you have a ccw do you still need to unload your firearm and separate the ammo and lock your firearm in the trunk?
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Old 11-06-2010, 6:25 AM
harbinger007 harbinger007 is offline
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No!

Someone with a CCW can carry almost everywhere. See http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=338205
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Old 11-06-2010, 9:13 AM
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No. But if you are a guard carrying exposed and you travel from job site to friends house back to job site, and you have both an exposed permit and a CCW you will need to remove the exposed weapon and conceal it when you are not in course of employment. Assuming the same weapon is on your CCW and caliber authorized on your guard card.
Also in California you never need to separate ammo from weapon other than remove any round from chamber and remove any loaded mag from magazine well. That's it. Lock the gun up, if you need to and throw the full magazines in the same container go for it. As long as the gun is loaded (by definition) you are good to go. Separating the ammo and or full magazines from the gun is a recommendation the CHP posted on its website advising out of state CHL holders to do while traveling in California. It is an old method of travel that no longer conforms to California State law. Its a wise-tale that wont die. Its frustrating instructors are still teaching this nonsense.
Read the Calgun Wiki on "transportation" and "loaded". It is correct!
Most of this comes from the teaching from POST training, the same cop then goes into a gun store and repeats what he just learned, and the counter guys a drooling over the almighty words of a mis-informed cop, repeating the cops words as if they are golden. I have heard it so many times. My cop friend, or I had a cop tell me. Read the law and come to your own conclustions.
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Last edited by Mstrty; 11-06-2010 at 9:42 AM..
  #31  
Old 11-10-2010, 7:25 PM
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Ron Etchells's class kicked ***.
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Old 02-02-2011, 10:42 AM
sasc40cal sasc40cal is offline
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Everything that Bombmaster has stated here is true and correct, and in fact he is still teaching this FUD.
***Everything in quotes is Jim talking***
A comment was made that Jim can leave a lot to be desired, that is a huge understatement. Jim needs to learn the laws and actually teach them. He also needs to work on his personal attitude as far as I am concerned. Let me start off by telling how things got started.
His wife Vicky told us that they are no longer going to honor the calguns discount, her words were “that ship has sailed”. That’s fine, for me it wasn’t about the money in the first place, it was actually due to scheduling.
There were 15 of us in the class, most seemed to be kids with a guard card trying to get their exposed firearm permit, some were under 21, they were kids, there were however a few older people in the class for their ccw as well. One of the “applicants” as Jim refers to them was a female there for her guard card, she was about 50 years old and about 100 pounds, same height as Jim though. I didn’t like how he treated her nor the rest of the class, constant insults and yelling. For instance, he wanted to do a demonstration with her and 4 big bad guys coming at her, he said “we are in a white van we get out, hey guys lets go kill this ***** over here”, then he runs up on her and twists her wrist and removes the gun from her, then says “why the f*** didn’t you pull the trigger, your now dead , undastand”?. A few other times he decided to go on and grab his “other head” as he calls it, he said while standing in front of this lady, “you guys all have 2 heads, this one is where your brain is” and he grabs his sack in front of this lady. I spoke to the lady on a break, she seemed upset, she told me she called her husband and was telling him and he was pretty upset about it. She said he twisted her wrist and actually hurt it a little.
What I would suggest to him is this:
Give all of your accolades at the beginning of the class and get them out of the way, the constant green beret , sf, ranger, , spy school, I wrote the manual for this and that and I was arrested for 5 felonies over there and over here and I was arrested in that state too. And how he had a DUI and the judge asked for his license because in 78 or 76 they just took your license and sent it to the DMV in your home state, so he gave him his from panama when he was DEA and having guns pulled out on him and held to his head, or the constant reminder that he trained Hondurans in the rain to fight and he wasn’t even supposed to be in the country so they took their urine and feces home with them in a bag cause it was black ops crap.
I too was in the army, I served honorably, I saw action in 2 theaters, one he mentions a lot, but the difference between he and I, is I don’t have to always talk about it to make myself feel taller than I am. I have also adjusted and moved on with life, yes it was a great, neat part of the past, but I am not there to learn your private life or useless or wrong information. What is funny is how he tells the class about ammo and guns in the car, yet on the back of his workbook, the actual law from DOJ is printed in it.

The constant barrage of the cursing is something to be desired. He does say to the class “im a bad businessman” guess what, that isn’t all, his people skills leave a lot to be desired. In fact he often forgets just who the customer is that is buttering his bread. There are ways to get your point across and made without the constant cussing, and yelling, especially when you are at the range and the guy next to you has never shot a gun before, but he is behind the guy screaming at him, great way to have safety on the line dude, that guy is now even more nervous because you have displayed a bad attitude from the get go, so the guy actually shot and hit my target. I thought I was at ATI school with the jerk SGT that didn’t get laid the night before. HEY JIM, your career in the army ended a long time ago, and it was questionable the way you left the army, the students that you have are not in the army, they cant even understand what the hell you are saying even while you are running out of the mouth with FUD, and constant cuss words. “Undastand”?
He then tells the class that those of you that needs a 6 inch barrel or longer are making up for a small d***, the whole while this lady is sitting there. I think maybe it is Jim that has the issue, as he has to remind the class on a constant basis of what a hero he is, or how “friends” sent only him a copy from Quantico of a new manual to read over blah blah blah, dude I am your customer paying to learn the laws and be as knowledgeable as possible, if I wanted to hear all about you and your life and your infinity in the parking lot, I will buy your book if you have one, wait he and his Dad “col Bo Gritz” called SPIKE or something like that. What I don’t get is why someone would treat a customer this way. In fact there was a guard in there that hadn’t been there in a while I guess and had been qualifying with someone else, but he was in a pinch and need to get qualified. Jim kept bugging him on why he hadn’t been there in a while.
Just because he keeps your records on file for you is NO EXCUSE TO SEND BUSINESS TO THIS COMPANY, if you cant make backup copies of your paperwork and certificates then you ought to not be carrying a damn gun around in the first place. Scan it, keep it electronically, make copies and keep them in your gun safe. Don’t ever rely on this guy to have your paperwork on file for you.
I didn’t take offense to the things he was saying, it actually reminded me of begin in the army, but I felt bad for the lady in the class and a guy that seemed to be pretty religious sitting next to me on the other side of the table that would pray before he ate lunch. He should really know his audience, there is a place and time for it. The army even teaches you this, guess he forgot this part. I cringed every time he would grab his crotch because there was a lady in the class.
I too couldn’t believe the false information he spewed all day about laws. For example, you can’t buy more than one handgun a month, I raised my had before I knew how he was, he said save questions to the end, so I questioned him about it finally, I said I don’t think your correct, he said why, I said well I bought 2 back to back serial number 1911’s and picked them both up the same day after 10 days, he said there was no way possible and that the law had been broken, I said I buy used PPT, he said guys trust me on this one. I said there is no law that limits you to 1 gun a month for a private party buy and transfer. He said guy’s one gun a month.
By the way did you know Jim has 352 guns, all but 52 of them live in the state of Nevada, the rest live in the country of California, undastand? It was so comical that I actually had to record some of it on the old cell phone. I feel like calling or sending a letter to consumer affairs, DOJ, BSIS, and the BBB.
The one thing Jim never has learned at the age of 53 is people skills, or law. DO NOT GO TO THIS CLASS, I was SO disappointed that when I was finished and got home I actually enrolled in another class even though I passed and became part of the “250” club lol……. By the way his son Chris, “very mormon” as Jim said numerous times, is just as bad as he is.
So if you want to know what was taught in this class, here it is in order
1. Jim is so cool and owned the Army at one time
2. Jim owns an infinity
3. Jim is the best shooter
4. Jim was at spy school
5. Jim taught in the jungles
6. Jim was in the army
7. Jim was in the army
8. Jim was a SF guy
9. Jim was arrested for 5 felonies
10. Jim had a DUI in the 70’s
11. Jim is cool again
12. Jim can outshoot anyone of you
13. Jim carried his own feces in a bag back home along with his urine
14. Did you know that jim was a ranger in the army and later a green beret like his father Col “Bo” Gritz
15. Your stupid
16. You only get one strike with his wife Vicky
17. He has been married for 34 years
18. He owns 300 plus guns and only 52 are in California the rest are in Nevada
19. He is 53 and all CCW guys need to get a lawyer and give them “what do you call that deposit he says” oh ya a retainer D-bag….
20. His son chris is very mormon
21. He was in panama and was busting drug lords
22. He only buys guns never sells them.
23. Glocks are pieces of trash, so are xd’s.
24. He is the only guy that is allowed to lower the ramp at the range
25. Glocks suck
26. Your gun sucks
27. Undastand


The list can keep going on forever, there wasn’t very good instruction. I will never go back to this place again. Free requals or not, they keep your records on file for life , I say BFD dude, keep your own records on file for life. There were actually a few business owners in there for their CCW as well, one guy was in his 60’s, Jim screamed at what a dumb s*** he was out on the range made this old guy so nervous he could barley function. Guess what Jim not everyone can take being yelled at that way and not be nervous, I am fortunate enough to have been raised by a drill sgt so it didn’t really phase me, I heard it every damn day growing up, then in boot camp it was a breeze for me. I am a zero affect type of person, but not everyone in the class is.

Bizcuits: His service record has absolutely nothing to do with the class period…no matter however questionable his and his dad’s record is. For someone who was such an achiever in life, his successes seem to have been limited by his persona or something.

Using real guns in a classroom setting is crazy period. I cringed at times when a barrel of a gun would be pointed at the class. That is Army 101 , don’t ever point a gun at someone or pull the trigger of a real gun at someone , loaded or not. Not to mention he admits in front of a class (15 applicants lol) that he loans his guns out and doesnt date the letter, he said my son Chris has had one of my guns for almost a year. Someone brought it up while he was saying this, he said he knows the laws and dares any cop out there to recite the PC to him on that and even went further to say that most cops cant tell you how many amendments there are to the constitution.

Last edited by sasc40cal; 02-02-2011 at 10:58 AM.. Reason: spelling
  #33  
Old 02-02-2011, 11:15 AM
geeknow geeknow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizcuits View Post
Well then I would say don't complain, unless you are willing to at least attempt to address the issue. That's like going to a resturant, getting the wrong food, then complaining to all your friends without first asking the manager to remedy the problem.
I beg to differ.

The guy who is offering his expertise for money should be the one 'up to date' on his 'expertise....not his customer.

Its the vendors responsibility to provide the product he's advertised, and collected monies for.

It's not the customer's responsibility to chase him around after the fact.

best,

g
  #34  
Old 02-02-2011, 11:32 AM
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Thanks, sosc40cal. I added a link to your post at http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...83&postcount=5. I don't want that list there to include reviews, etc. (could have a completely separate forum for something as lengthy as that), but someone should have some idea of what to expect.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:12 PM
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So was he in the Army? And how Mormon was his son?
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  #36  
Old 02-02-2011, 1:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harbinger007 View Post
Thanks, sosc40cal. I added a link to your post at http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...83&postcount=5. I don't want that list there to include reviews, etc. (could have a completely separate forum for something as lengthy as that), but someone should have some idea of what to expect.
sounds good to me, I just want CGF members to get the best training they can. The lack of professionalism was - well i really don’t have words for it, I have never seen anything like this before in my life.

The one thing that I did think was funny was when he showed us a video of that LEO in the school where he accidently shoots himself in the foot. He makes fun of the guy, but yet he stands up there and uses real guns for demonstration purposes and actually pulls the trigger while pointing it at people. IF YOU WANT QUALITY DO NOT GO HERE. Hell if I were trying to get my mall cop card, I wouldnt go there.
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Old 02-02-2011, 1:28 PM
sasc40cal sasc40cal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenaniguns View Post
So was he in the Army? And how Mormon was his son?
Lol apparently he was a Green beret, you wouldn’t know it from his class that he was ever in the army lol….Being a smart ass….. as for his son, he sure doesn’t act like a mormon or treat others as the good book would tell you to.
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Old 02-02-2011, 1:43 PM
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He is a very over the top kind of person. He takes things to extreme, for example during his demonstration with the female in class, he said to her lets go kill this *****, when she didnt pull the trigger the first time and he got in her face and yelled at her for being "dead", he did it again, "hey guys lets go kill this *****", then she pulled the trigger. When talking to her on break, she said she has always been trained to never point or pull the trigger no matter if someone told you it was unloaded. I told her that is correct, even the damn army teaches that, in fact in the army if you did that, there is a stronge chance you would be shot or put on the ground. What he ought to use is the blue pratice guns. or hell take a real gun and take the firing pin out of it and weld a cap on the end of the barrel but make it so it cant ever fire, he packs up his guns and lets the guards shoot them at the range.

But for people on here to say he is a good guy and they save your files for life is no excuse to give this company any business. he may very well be a nice guy or whatever personal relationship you might have with him - why have businesses forgotten that word of mouth is everything and you should treat a paying customer better than what he does.

The other thing we heard a lot of was going to safeway and reaching for something and grandma sees your gun, because you didnt pay attention and had your eyes on a womans tits while reaching for the item up top, again there is a female in the class. then he says stop thinking with your dick and it is the law that you cant ever be exposed. I didnt want to tell him that I can reach the top shelf without standing on my tiptoes. Dont know if this is a personal issue he has had in the past.

His famous words for this was scenario was: expose your sh*t - you will lose your sh*t, they will come and take your sh*t away.

what was once again crazy was when he went off on me - we had just come in from a break - I was turning my cell off, he said sir is there something more important on that god damn phone than what I have to say?

I just thought, this guy isnt playing with a full deck -- i tried to explain and then just thought why bother saying anything at all to this d-bag, I just wanted to hurry up and get my certificate and leave... It would be cool if someone from the Sac sheriff went in there and took his class, they would probably come back and think about letting him certify people in the future.

Last edited by sasc40cal; 02-02-2011 at 1:48 PM..
  #39  
Old 02-02-2011, 1:53 PM
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Oh and by the way guys - dont forget to purchase the peper spray, he literally told us that we should carry some, then if we have to use our firearm and bad guy is dead, he said while you are on the phone with 911 to spray peper spray in dead bad guys face, that way you can say to the police you tried the least resitant using the spray first - he told us to lie to the police. Unreal. He also said dont put lasers and modify your guns, any of them, he said when you get pulledinto court they defense suing you in civil court will drill you on why you modified your firearm to be more deadly. He said this is why cops are not allowed to have any mods or lasers or lights other than "squat teams" - he said he calls swat squat cuz they dont know how to do things. He said they need to walk up and just burn the house down, then bad guy will come out.
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Old 02-02-2011, 1:59 PM
harbinger007 harbinger007 is offline
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I'm a religious guy and feel blessed.....that I trained elsewhere!
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