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  #1  
Old 10-20-2010, 12:37 PM
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Default help with penal code info.

ok so i have a question. i have a friend who is an avid shooter and gun owner. however he is a diabetic. recently he had a low blood sugar that ended him in the hospital. this trip almost killed him. he was in a comma for a few days but now is back at home. he is a little slow and cant quite remember everything. his short term memory is really bad. i need to know if there is any penal code that will allow us to transfer the guns out of his name and into his wifes without his consent. any help on this matter would be appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2010, 12:47 PM
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You are better off talking to an attorney before you act.

My guess is a judge will need to sign off on a conservitorship for him to do so.
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2010, 12:51 PM
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If your friend's doctor(s) concur that the situation is as you describe, I think Unit74 has it; it would more likely be Health and Safety Code than PC, and getting a sympathetic lawyer involved Right Now should be your next move.
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  #4  
Old 10-20-2010, 1:08 PM
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Since California is a community property state, doesn't the wife already own the guns?
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  #5  
Old 10-20-2010, 1:28 PM
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If I remember right, if something happens to him, the wife can sell the guns through an FFL no problem. This came up a few years ago and I called DOJ. For a deceased spouse they told me not to worry if the living spouse who the guns were not in her name sold them since she needed the money. I was not involved with the transfer, but you can always call DOJ.
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  #6  
Old 10-20-2010, 4:03 PM
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You need the Probate Code, not the Penal code. Talk to a local attorney who handles trust/estate/elder law issues - it's not uncommon to want/need to transfer property out of the hands of an incapacitated person. Also, the level of capacity required to enter into a contract or to dispose of property isn't as great as many imagine.
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  #7  
Old 10-20-2010, 6:43 PM
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Now that I have thought about it, what is the motive here? If he dies it gets sorted out in probate and usually goes t the spouse unless the will reflects otherwise.

Is this some sort of gun grab attempt of the mans gun stash? I'm not too fond of the way the question comes across.
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  #8  
Old 10-20-2010, 8:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit74 View Post
Now that I have thought about it, what is the motive here? If he dies it gets sorted out in probate and usually goes t the spouse unless the will reflects otherwise.

Is this some sort of gun grab attempt of the mans gun stash? I'm not too fond of the way the question comes across.
This
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  #9  
Old 10-22-2010, 8:33 AM
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thank you for all your help. the motive here is to keep everyone safe, and at the moment the owner is not able to handle a gun safely. the plan is to get all the guns into the wifes name and then when the son is 21 in about 9 months they will all go into his name. this is not a gun snatch to just sell. the whole family is involved in shooting and we are trying to prevent an accident. thank you everyone i appreciate the help.
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  #10  
Old 10-22-2010, 9:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newgun View Post
thank you for all your help. the motive here is to keep everyone safe, and at the moment the owner is not able to handle a gun safely. the plan is to get all the guns into the wifes name and then when the son is 21 in about 9 months they will all go into his name. this is not a gun snatch to just sell. the whole family is involved in shooting and we are trying to prevent an accident. thank you everyone i appreciate the help.


The family (and you) don't trust the owner and he will not authorize the sale of HIS firearms. You are asking the court to declare him mentally unsound and a hazard to the public. Are you sure about this?
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  #11  
Old 10-22-2010, 9:38 AM
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He doesn't have to be 21in an intra family transfer.
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2010, 4:52 AM
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how do you do the intra family transfer when he isnt 21.
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  #13  
Old 10-25-2010, 5:27 AM
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Default The son only needs to be 18 in California

Quote:
Originally Posted by newgun View Post
how do you do the intra family transfer when he isnt 21.
Even for handguns. Long guns don't need any paperwork. (there is no rifle/shotgun registration in California)

In this situation all that is required for Handgun transfer is to print and fill out this form:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf

NOTE:

fill it out like this on these 2 questions...Very important.

ACQUIRED FROM: write the fathers name

HOW POSSESSION WAS OBTAINED: Gift from Father.

In Part A at the top of the form, list the Son's information.

Part C is signed and dated by the Son. (as the owner of the handguns listed)

Notice that nothing on this form requires Dad to sign anything.

Good luck and Sorry for the Diabetes problem with Dad.

oh, the fee is $19 bucks......
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  #14  
Old 10-25-2010, 6:27 AM
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time to LAWYER UP.


all other input is not to be headed.





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  #15  
Old 10-25-2010, 6:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbob View Post
Even for handguns. Long guns don't need any paperwork. (there is no rifle/shotgun registration in California)

In this situation all that is required for Handgun transfer is to print and fill out this form:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf

NOTE:

fill it out like this on these 2 questions...Very important.

ACQUIRED FROM: write the fathers name

HOW POSSESSION WAS OBTAINED: Gift from Father.

In Part A at the top of the form, list the Son's information.

Part C is signed and dated by the Son. (as the owner of the handguns listed)

Notice that nothing on this form requires Dad to sign anything.

Good luck and Sorry for the Diabetes problem with Dad.

oh, the fee is $19 bucks......
IANAL but I would think filling out this form without the father's consent, would amount to theft. CA is a comunity property state. Mom's name could be used in place of Dad's perhaps. You are talking about having the courts declare this man mentally unfit. Not something to be taken lightly.
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  #16  
Old 10-25-2010, 7:52 AM
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Default I doubt that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Taylor View Post
IANAL but I would think filling out this form without the father's consent, would amount to theft. CA is a comunity property state. Mom's name could be used in place of Dad's perhaps. You are talking about having the courts declare this man mentally unfit. Not something to be taken lightly.
Theft..?...er..no.

There is no need to spend big $ trying to make Dad mentally unfit. They can transfer the handguns quietly and legally. Dad certainly isn't going to Lawyer Up and probably has enough problems trying to get thru the day. Not a single DA would take this as anything but a civil matter. (which means they would not get involved) ...if it came to that Bridge. Which I doubt.

They can do this today with a $19 check.
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  #17  
Old 10-25-2010, 8:14 AM
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Maybe I should stay out of this one, but that never stopped me before. I'm very, very closely acquainted with 3 different individuals who suffered serious injuries or disease or stroke symptoms of a sort to cause apparently permanent brain damage & loss of full mental faculties. In all 3 cases the individual lost cognitive skills, short term [especially] or long term memory, and experienced serious speech, vision and body motion problems and much more.

In all 3 cases, over time, a healing took place and each individual was restored to a fully functional state and a wonderful full life, with only about a 10-15% residue of minor problems. Again, in all cases, doctors & medical science had no hope & no cure for them & threw up their hands & shook their heads.

Fortunately all three men & their families were deeply & firmly committed in their belief and hope in their God. He didn't let them down!

I fail to see what the big rush is here. I can read between the lines of original post to see that this is a recent event. It appears to me to be far too soon to be grabbing the owner's personal property of his guns that he loves and enjoys.

I smell a rat because there is absolutely no need to transfer ownership in order to cause a safe environment and assuming ownership does nothing whatsoever to render this as a safer situation. If he's too out of it to handle his guns then simply move them out of his access, which is quite legal.

What 'safety' issue would that NOT solve?

Something's real wrong with this picture but I'll be praying for legal protection and a swift recovery for the legal owner of those guns.

By the way, everything my father owned was stolen in a very similar way, by family, after they assisted him in becoming supposedly unable to manage his own affairs. They also caused & hastened his untimely death. In addition they managed to screw me out of several $100,000's of what he and my mother intended as my personal inheritance. While they were at it they stole her entire estate also!
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  #18  
Old 10-25-2010, 10:25 AM
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Sounds like a lot of would be solutions to a non existent problem.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:33 AM
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http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:31 AM
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Just move them to a safe place where he has no access to them.
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  #21  
Old 10-25-2010, 11:39 AM
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Lock them up and don't give him a key or combo. He won't be p.o.'d over you taking his guns if/when he gets his senses back.

Did he have a stroke or something? A low blood sugar can put you in a coma and cause convulsions but once he was hospitalized and it was corrected it shouldn't cause any long term problems that I am aware of. (I have a son who has been a diabetic since age 4 1/2.)
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbob View Post
Theft..?...er..no.

There is no need to spend big $ trying to make Dad mentally unfit. They can transfer the handguns quietly and legally. Dad certainly isn't going to Lawyer Up and probably has enough problems trying to get thru the day. Not a single DA would take this as anything but a civil matter. (which means they would not get involved) ...if it came to that Bridge. Which I doubt.

They can do this today with a $19 check.
19 dollar check for each gun.
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:54 AM
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19 dollar check for each gun.
Any number of handguns.

One fee for 1 or any number.
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  #24  
Old 10-25-2010, 1:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit 1 View Post
... there is absolutely no need to transfer ownership in order to cause a safe environment and assuming ownership does nothing whatsoever to render this as a safer situation. If he's too out of it to handle his guns then simply move them out of his access, which is quite legal.

What 'safety' issue would that NOT solve?
What he said. If the issue is safety, there's no reason to worry about ownership of the firearms, just physical access, which can be solved by buying a safe or changing the combination on an existing safe, either of which will be cheaper than anything involving an attorney. Also, physical access can be restored in an instant without paperwork.
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