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Calguns Concealed Carry County Information Forum Information on how to get a LTC in yourCounty

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  #241  
Old 04-09-2012, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by KandyRedCoi View Post
another member actually told me the same thing

so...if not for personal protection, not for wildlife...then what?

Yes then what will work I was going to use the same thing since I go in the country a lot. Figured protecting daughter aginst Mountain Lion attack would help.
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  #242  
Old 04-09-2012, 2:59 PM
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Yes then what will work I was going to use the same thing since I go in the country a lot. Figured protecting daughter aginst Mountain Lion attack would help.
I thought it would be a good reason too, but if you read through this forum you'll see that people have been denied for using protection from wildlife as a good cause. They'll just tell you that if you're afraid of Mountain Lions then stay out of wilderness. You're good cause basically has to be a situation that puts you in danger and you cannot avoid.

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  #243  
Old 04-09-2012, 3:04 PM
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my house literally backs the cleveland national forest...i can be walking on my sidewalk, taking out trash...then hear/see coyotes and other animals out and about...im not charging into the wilderness,mthe wilderness is going into my neighborhood...then what?
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  #244  
Old 04-09-2012, 3:33 PM
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my house literally backs the cleveland national forest...i can be walking on my sidewalk, taking out trash...then hear/see coyotes and other animals out and about...im not charging into the wilderness,mthe wilderness is going into my neighborhood...then what?
You can carry a gun in your home. No problem!

I'd suggest you call the Sheriff's office and see what they think about your GC statement... But, I'd try to come up with something different. Think "protection of property".. Yeah, it's kinda dumb that you can get a LTC for the protection of property (something that you can't claim self-defense on), but NOT for personal protection (something you CAN claim the right to self-defense on).

Bank deposits, transporting expensive equipment, expensive tools, valuable items, etc.. I think (correct me if I'm wrong?) you might be able to claim that you shoot at ranges a LOT and you need to protect the guns themselves from being taken while going to/from the range.
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  #245  
Old 04-09-2012, 3:46 PM
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I think (correct me if I'm wrong?) you might be able to claim that you shoot at ranges a LOT and you need to protect the guns themselves from being taken while going to/from the range.
I asked about that when I called the CCW unit. He told me that if you're afraid of your guns being taken, then don't go shooting. I don't think that will work unless you're a competition shooter.

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  #246  
Old 04-09-2012, 3:58 PM
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I asked about that when I called the CCW unit. He told me that if you're afraid of your guns being taken, then don't go shooting. I don't think that will work unless you're a competition shooter.
Silly..

"They don't have a problem with guns.. They just don't want YOU to have a gun..." - Comment made at my CCW class by Bill Murphy.. Kinda appropriate here.
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  #247  
Old 04-10-2012, 12:20 AM
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So let me get this straight. Your saying we can talk to the CCW deputy and give our GCS a dry run on the phone? They aren't gonna give us some backlash saying we are wasting their time? I tried that before with OC and got shut down asap. If so I'm making the call tomorrow! I actually have to do a follow up call with them for my C & R FFL. The deputy I talked to about that seemed really nice.
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  #248  
Old 04-10-2012, 1:07 AM
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So let me get this straight. Your saying we can talk to the CCW deputy and give our GCS a dry run on the phone? They aren't gonna give us some backlash saying we are wasting their time? I tried that before with OC and got shut down asap. If so I'm making the call tomorrow! I actually have to do a follow up call with them for my C & R FFL. The deputy I talked to about that seemed really nice.
Your info says you're in OC.. Did you move?

But, yeah.. The deputies are great.. Talk to them. They're pretty easy going..
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  #249  
Old 04-10-2012, 2:09 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDavid View Post
You can carry a gun in your home. No problem!

I'd suggest you call the Sheriff's office and see what they think about your GC statement... But, I'd try to come up with something different. Think "protection of property".. Yeah, it's kinda dumb that you can get a LTC for the protection of property (something that you can't claim self-defense on), but NOT for personal protection (something you CAN claim the right to self-defense on).

Bank deposits, transporting expensive equipment, expensive tools, valuable items, etc.. I think (correct me if I'm wrong?) you might be able to claim that you shoot at ranges a LOT and you need to protect the guns themselves from being taken while going to/from the range.
1. can i also claim the protection of my dogs? besides my property...there has been a lot of dogs that have "disapperead" in my neighborhood as well

2. can you submit multiple GCS and hope one of them works?

thanks for all your help
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  #250  
Old 04-10-2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by KandyRedCoi View Post
1. can i also claim the protection of my dogs? besides my property...there has been a lot of dogs that have "disapperead" in my neighborhood as well

2. can you submit multiple GCS and hope one of them works?

thanks for all your help
1. No, dogs are property. You cannot use deadly force to protect property.
2. Yes, you can include as many items in your GC as you like. I was told the more you have, the better.

"Protection of property" is NOT a valid basis for forming GC. It is not the property itself that you are protecting. You are protecting yourself from the threat and danger created by possessing the property. In other words, protection from the bad guy that would harm you to take your property.
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  #251  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by lawaia View Post
"Protection of property" is NOT a valid basis for forming GC. It is not the property itself that you are protecting. You are protecting yourself from the threat and danger created by possessing the property. In other words, protection from the bad guy that would harm you to take your property.
It's still odd to me that personal protection isn't accepted. I've actually said that to them; and frankly, they agree--but, it's ultimately the Sheriff that makes the decisions (until the courts change his mind, of course).

Think about the things you have with you on a day-to-day basis (like an iPhone, iPad, currency, tools, etc..) that might make you more of a target to a criminal than someone else who doesn't carry that stuff. Also, it needs to be something you "need" to carry.. So, if you *need* to carry a computer for your work, then perhaps that's a reason you might be targeted by a criminal.
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  #252  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:37 AM
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gotcha!
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  #253  
Old 04-10-2012, 2:04 PM
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1: I work at a Major retail store, the departments I work in contain 1000's of dollars worth of merchandise. including jewelry and clothing. Not to mention the money in the registers.
2:I go hiking on a weekly basis and statistics are showing that mountain lion and coyote attacks are on the rise and if I was attacked I would be hours away from the closest help IF I could get in contact with them in the first place.
3: I have coyotes on my property on a regular basis. (this is true FYI) I am afraid to take the trash out at night/ be out of my home, because I can hear the packs hunting in the field next to my home and sometimes on my property, but cant see them.
4: My mother works as a traveling sales rep and when she goes on sales trips I usually go along as a driver. When we take these trips we carry 100's if not 1000's of dollars worth of merchandise with use for demonstration or sales.

I was gonna type these up and use them. How do they sound to you?
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  #254  
Old 04-10-2012, 2:08 PM
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It's still odd to me that personal protection isn't accepted.
That's because it's not San Berdoo.
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  #255  
Old 04-10-2012, 2:57 PM
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1: I work at a Major retail store, the departments I work in contain 1000's of dollars worth of merchandise. including jewelry and clothing. Not to mention the money in the registers.
2:I go hiking on a weekly basis and statistics are showing that mountain lion and coyote attacks are on the rise and if I was attacked I would be hours away from the closest help IF I could get in contact with them in the first place.
3: I have coyotes on my property on a regular basis. (this is true FYI) I am afraid to take the trash out at night/ be out of my home, because I can hear the packs hunting in the field next to my home and sometimes on my property, but cant see them.
4: My mother works as a traveling sales rep and when she goes on sales trips I usually go along as a driver. When we take these trips we carry 100's if not 1000's of dollars worth of merchandise with use for demonstration or sales.

I was gonna type these up and use them. How do they sound to you?
Call the CCW unit & run it by them.

I can tell you that you should definitely eliminate the parts related to wild animals. FYI, you are allowed to CCW on your own property without a permit. And they will tell you to not go hiking if you are afraid of animal attacks. That is an avoidable circumstance.

I'm not sure about the retail store thing. You will probably have to expound on exactly why that puts you at risk outside of being at the store location. You will also be required to have your employer sign an employer notification form, letting them know that you are applying for the permit.

Does your mother work for someone, or is she self-employed. If she works for someone, and you are not actually employed by them, it may complicate matters.

The more I think through scenarios like yours, the more I really HATE California. It shouldn't be this difficult to be able to protect ourselves. I know........I'm preaching to the choir. Sigh.
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  #256  
Old 04-10-2012, 4:18 PM
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My mother is an independent sales rep for multiple companies. Does that count? And I was under the impression that you couldn't carry outside your home regardless of property lines because they banned UOC?
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  #257  
Old 04-10-2012, 5:33 PM
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if u are with-in your property lines, couldnt one carry loaded open or ccw?

lots of things to learn and study...
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  #258  
Old 04-10-2012, 6:02 PM
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if u are with-in your property lines, couldnt one carry loaded open or ccw?

lots of things to learn and study...
My understanding is that is a NO. Not if your property isn't fenced. The way I understand it is, Back yard that is fenced= ok. Front yard without fence= not ok.

But I am probably wrong.
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  #259  
Old 04-10-2012, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by baseacegoku View Post
My understanding is that is a NO. Not if your property isn't fenced. The way I understand it is, Back yard that is fenced= ok. Front yard without fence= not ok.

But I am probably wrong.
That is a pretty accurate... Front yard enclosed by a fence or gate is not open to the public and OK... See PEOPLE v. STRIDER
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Old 04-10-2012, 9:11 PM
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So that is my problem, as my property is partially fenced but also open at the back and at the front. Its a weird setup
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  #261  
Old 04-10-2012, 9:13 PM
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well OK...that makes a lot of california sense...carry loaded with in a fence but not when theres no fence...***** backwards

on top of that u cant use wildlife as a GCS....no wonder tons of people carry without a LTC
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  #262  
Old 04-10-2012, 9:32 PM
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The idea is that if you dont have a reasonable expectation of privacy then it is "public"?
At least that's how I see it. I might be wrong.
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Old 04-10-2012, 9:33 PM
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The idea is that if you dont have a reasonable expectation of privacy then it is "public"?
At least that's how I see it. I might be wrong.
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  #264  
Old 04-11-2012, 7:11 AM
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The idea is that if you dont have a reasonable expectation of privacy then it is "public"?
At least that's how I see it. I might be wrong.
I believe it is the barrier to public access, not privacy...
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  #265  
Old 04-11-2012, 8:34 AM
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I believe it is the barrier to public access, not privacy...
They renumbered the laws and I don't have time to go digging right now, but here is the gist from memory:

- You can carry a concealed firearm anywhere on your property or residence
- You can "have" a loaded firearm anywhere on your property or residence but you can't necessarily be carrying it. You can thank case law for that fine distinction.
- You can't have a loaded firearm in "public" areas within city limits or outside city limits if the county has a ban on shooting for that portion of the county.

So if the portion of your property in question is such that a reasonable person in the public would not perceive a barrier to entry or passage, then you could carry unloaded and concealed. If said area had some form of barrier (fence, dog, no legitimate reason to enter, etc.) you could carry loaded and concealed. I've yet to bother reading the newish UOC law, so I can't comment on open carry.
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  #266  
Old 04-11-2012, 8:43 AM
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They renumbered the laws and I don't have time to go digging right now, but here is the gist from memory:

- You can carry a concealed firearm anywhere on your property or residence
- You can "have" a loaded firearm anywhere on your property or residence but you can't necessarily be carrying it. You can thank case law for that fine distinction.
- You can't have a loaded firearm in "public" areas within city limits or outside city limits if the county has a ban on shooting for that portion of the county.

So if the portion of your property in question is such that a reasonable person in the public would not perceive a barrier to entry or passage, then you could carry unloaded and concealed. If said area had some form of barrier (fence, dog, no legitimate reason to enter, etc.) you could carry loaded and concealed. I've yet to bother reading the newish UOC law, so I can't comment on open carry.
The case law I posted covers this issue, there is no reference to a reasonable person, there is to barriers and gates, even if the gate happens to be open... You won't find this detail addressed in a statute....

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardW56 View Post
That is a pretty accurate... Front yard enclosed by a fence or gate is not open to the public and OK... See PEOPLE v. STRIDER
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  #267  
Old 04-11-2012, 8:58 AM
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There are existing threads about carrying on your property. Can we please keep this thread on subject? Thanks.
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  #268  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:13 PM
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<sigh> Still no CCW here.. Still waiting on the gears to turn.

Had my interview on March 5, so, I guess it's only actually been a bit over a month... But, still.. Having to wait to actually be allowed to use your 2nd amendment rights stinks.
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  #269  
Old 04-15-2012, 11:21 PM
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<sigh> Still no CCW here.. Still waiting on the gears to turn.

Had my interview on March 5, so, I guess it's only actually been a bit over a month... But, still.. Having to wait to actually be allowed to use your 2nd amendment rights stinks.
Agreed, but it's only been a little longer than a month. You may still have a while to go before you get the call...or the dreaded letter. Good luck!

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  #270  
Old 04-16-2012, 11:10 AM
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<sigh> Still no CCW here.. Still waiting on the gears to turn.

Had my interview on March 5, so, I guess it's only actually been a bit over a month... But, still.. Having to wait to actually be allowed to use your 2nd amendment rights stinks.
Plan on waiting two more months. That seems to be the norm. The wait sucks, but the ill feelings seem to go away quickly once the permit is in your hand.
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  #271  
Old 04-16-2012, 11:39 AM
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So should we figure 5 months for the whole process? What happens if you move during the wait? do you have to apply again? I might be moving into san diego county sometime this year and don't want to waste time & money
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  #272  
Old 04-16-2012, 11:53 AM
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So should we figure 5 months for the whole process? What happens if you move during the wait? do you have to apply again? I might be moving into san diego county sometime this year and don't want to waste time & money
If a permit was issued, it would expire 90 days after you moved from the County of issuance. This alone may make it not worth your while.

Not sure if they would continue processing of your application if you moved during the application process. Best if you call the CCW Unit and ask.
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  #273  
Old 04-16-2012, 1:21 PM
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what exactly entails the entire process from start to end? and 5months is def quite a while for u to able to excersice our RIGHTS!
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  #274  
Old 04-16-2012, 2:06 PM
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what exactly entails the entire process from start to end? and 5months is def quite a while for u to able to excersice our RIGHTS!
Here is a link to Riverside County's application.

http://www.riversidesheriff.org/pdf/ccw-rso.pdf

See page 2 for details of the process. Figure 2 months to get through the live scan, qual, and class. This is mostly due to the scheduling limitations. Then approx 3 months for admin to review the applications in batches.
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  #275  
Old 04-16-2012, 2:11 PM
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The process takes time. Several counties are
5-7 months average - even those that are pro issue. Stay positive and follow the process and it should work for you.
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  #276  
Old 04-16-2012, 2:22 PM
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Here is a link to Riverside County's application.

http://www.riversidesheriff.org/pdf/ccw-rso.pdf

See page 2 for details of the process. Figure 2 months to get through the live scan, qual, and class. This is mostly due to the scheduling limitations. Then approx 3 months for admin to review the applications in batches.
thank you
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  #277  
Old 04-16-2012, 9:57 PM
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Originally Posted by lawaia View Post
Here is a link to Riverside County's application.

http://www.riversidesheriff.org/pdf/ccw-rso.pdf

See page 2 for details of the process. Figure 2 months to get through the live scan, qual, and class. This is mostly due to the scheduling limitations. Then approx 3 months for admin to review the applications in batches.
Nice to see that Sheriff Sniff is still not following the law. Per PC12052.5 the determiniation of your good cause has to happen within 90 days of when the application is submitted. Not 90 days after live scan, qual, and the class.

Hopefully the CGF will smack the Riverside CCW unit into compliance with the law soon.
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindynles View Post
Nice to see that Sheriff Sniff is still not following the law. Per PC12052.5 the determiniation of your good cause has to happen within 90 days of when the application is submitted. Not 90 days after live scan, qual, and the class.

Hopefully the CGF will smack the Riverside CCW unit into compliance with the law soon.
Oh, how I wish they would!

Here's the quandry: The CCW unit is way under-staffed for the amount of work they have to do and the number of applicants being processed. The way I see it, there are only two solutions to this problem.

1. Hire more staff. However, since most of this state is suffering budget cuts due to being broke, I am assuming that it is not within the budget to hire more people.

2. Make CCW shall issue, and eliminate the BS. Issuance would happen quickly upon completion of the background check, eliminating much of the current process. However, most of CA doesn't seem too fond of this idea.

I guess the same quandry could apply to CGF. There are so many bigger things happening right now, and they have limited resources. Riverside's 90-day non-compliance is probably not even on the radar.
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Old 04-30-2012, 3:25 PM
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Got the call! I pick up my LTC tomorrow

Initial interview: March 5, 2012
Permit received: May 1, 2012

So, under 60 days total. Pretty good actually
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Old 04-30-2012, 3:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDavid View Post
Got the call! I pick up my LTC tomorrow

Initial interview: March 5, 2012
Permit received: May 1, 2012

So, under 60 days total. Pretty good actually
not bad at all...congrats
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