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Calguns Concealed Carry County Information Forum Information on how to get a LTC in yourCounty

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  #1  
Old 05-05-2012, 8:37 PM
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Default Orange County GC Statements Available

The first batch is here
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Old 05-05-2012, 8:43 PM
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Wow, nice!

Can someone explain to me whether the statement on page 8 was approved, and whether it was its own statement or part of the previous one?
Thanks

Last edited by QQQ; 05-05-2012 at 8:49 PM..
  #3  
Old 05-05-2012, 8:51 PM
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Wow, nice!

Can someone explain to me whether the statement on page 8 was approved, and whether it was its own statement or part of the previous one?
Thanks
The GC statement on page 7, is more than one page long...

Pages 7 & 8 are one GC statement...
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Old 05-05-2012, 9:27 PM
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Can't download. Is it available else where?
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:02 PM
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Haha. I recognize a few handwritten GCSs in there...
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Old 05-05-2012, 11:00 PM
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I just read them and I'm a little ticked off!! A civil engineer??? Because in a catistrophic earthquake.. Jeez!! I have Civil's that are subordinates and Baca denied me!!
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Old 05-06-2012, 6:47 AM
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Originally Posted by viet4lifeOC View Post
Can't download. Is it available else where?
Same here...?
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Old 05-06-2012, 6:52 AM
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Can't download. Is it available else where?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAReact View Post
Same here...?
Go directly to the CGF download page HERE
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Old 05-06-2012, 6:59 AM
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Congrats! And nice work!
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Old 05-06-2012, 7:22 AM
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Interesting... Looks like a wide range of good cause approvals. The last one requests a renewal "for the safety of my family and those around me". I'm not sure what the original LTC request read, but this is just for self defense. So if I tailored my request just like this, and was rejected, would this help with the fight for permits in Orange County?
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Old 05-06-2012, 7:38 AM
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Originally Posted by HowardW56 View Post
Go directly to the CGF download page HERE
Thank you...got it. It says "approved" at the top of each statement. Does this mean all of these good causes were approved, or that all redactions in the good causes were approved? Me thinks the latter...
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Old 05-06-2012, 7:49 AM
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Originally Posted by VAReact View Post
Thank you...got it. It says "approved" at the top of each statement. Does this mean all of these good causes were approved, or that all redactions in the good causes were approved? Me thinks the latter...
If they are marked approved the permits were issued. OCSO made it a bit of a project to sort through the documents by mixing approved and denied applications together in a 930 (±) page package.

That was just the first batch of documents provided in response to the just a portion of the documents requested.

For those who are curious, I believe the documents were requested last August...
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Last edited by HowardW56; 05-06-2012 at 7:53 AM..
  #13  
Old 05-06-2012, 7:51 AM
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Just reading those I'm pretty sure I recognized at least two people I know.
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Old 05-06-2012, 7:57 AM
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Curious on how having these documents are useful? Can't one mount a legal challenge that approval/disapproval is subjective and arbitrary? The power to grant CCW should be more objective and less on the whimes of the Sheriff's "discretion."
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Old 05-06-2012, 8:04 AM
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Originally Posted by viet4lifeOC View Post
Curious on how having these documents are useful? Can't one mount a legal challenge that approval/disapproval is subjective and arbitrary? The power to grant CCW should be more objective and less on the whimes of the Sheriff's "discretion."
Additional cases challenging subjective and arbitrary issuance of LTC is certainly a possibility...
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Old 05-06-2012, 8:14 AM
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Does reading through these make anyone else feel slightly ill?

Can I think up and justify a whole line of BS as to why my life or my job or my money is special and I deserve to exercise my natural rights in the safest and most effcient way possible....?

Should I have to....?

Out of the two, I think so called 'good cause' is worse than 'good moral character'
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Old 05-06-2012, 9:41 AM
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Originally Posted by viet4lifeOC View Post
Curious on how having these documents are useful?
You can determine if you are similarly situated to applicants who have received licenses in Orange County.
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  #18  
Old 05-06-2012, 10:53 AM
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Lot of renewals.....
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:45 AM
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Why weren't the denied GC statements made public too? I'd suspect those would be far more interesting...
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:04 PM
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alot of business and retired leo and reserve leo in those. Didnt see any common folk type GC statements
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:33 PM
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How about the dude who's sole good cause was "I go to Casinos a lot"?

I thought there were a few that were also simply "I work at or travel through bad areas a lot". That's a pretty easy standard to meet.
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Old 05-06-2012, 2:42 PM
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I always enjoy reading these, Thanks for posting.

I noticed some of these applicants are retired LEO. Aren’t they covered under LEOSA?

What’s a “Professional Services Responder? or ‘PSR’”?

The last page really irks me:
Quote:
I hope I have demonstrated sufficient cause for the privilege of carrying a concealed weapon
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  #23  
Old 05-06-2012, 3:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ubermcoupe View Post
I noticed some of these applicants are retired LEO. Aren’t they covered under LEOSA?
Retired Federal agents or Officers aren't covered, Federal Agencies do not give retirees CCW.

The Federal System is screwy, lots of odd regulations; a CBP agent can carry their issued weapon anywhere and anytime, but they are not permitted to carry a personally owned weapon without a LTC... Not that many don't anyway and local LE is unlikely to do anything about it. But if there is an off duty incident, with an unauthorized weapon, they can end up in deep ****...
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Old 05-06-2012, 3:55 PM
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Any thoughts on page 101? I've read that particular GC a couple of times and don't actually see a statement of good cause. It is simply a list of qualifications and assertions of never having a problem with guns (oh - and a statement that they are well informed about CCW restrictions and have always done their best to not be in the wrong place with a weapon).

It's also interesting that not everyone appears to be politically connected as so many claim. There is one that is as simple as collecting cash in a high crime area (rents) and another that is as simple as buying/selling large quantities of gold. Neither of these examples gives dollar amounts - i'm guessing the amount of cash and the idea of "large" is subjective in the mind of the applicant. ?
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Old 05-06-2012, 4:07 PM
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p. 53


"The reason for my permit is that I get paid in cash."

APPROVED.
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Old 05-06-2012, 4:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardW56 View Post
Retired Federal agents or Officers aren't covered, Federal Agencies do not give retirees CCW.

The Federal System is screwy, lots of odd regulations; a CBP agent can carry their issued weapon anywhere and anytime, but they are not permitted to carry a personally owned weapon without a LTC... Not that many don't anyway and local LE is unlikely to do anything about it. But if there is an off duty incident, with an unauthorized weapon, they can end up in deep ****...
Forgive my sidetrack but honorably retired FLEO’s cannot utilize HR218 because FLEAs aren’t covered or because FLEAs refuse to issue a valid retired photo ID card?
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Old 05-06-2012, 4:31 PM
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Forgive my sidetrack but honorably retired FLEO’s cannot utilize HR218 because FLEAs aren’t covered or because FLEAs refuse to issue a valid retired photo ID card?
Good Question, I don't know the answer...
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Old 05-06-2012, 5:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrbroom View Post
I just read them and I'm a little ticked off!! A civil engineer??? Because in a catistrophic earthquake.. Jeez!! I have Civil's that are subordinates and Baca denied me!!
How about the gynecologist!

It's really incredible - they all boil down to "self protection"

I mean, I'm happy for THEM but come on....what about the rest of the world who would like to protect themselves?????
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Old 05-06-2012, 5:40 PM
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How about the gynecologist!

Some gynecologists perform abortions, and receive threats...

I recall that there have been several killed in other parts of the country.

I have less trouble with a gynecologist qualifying for a LTC than a civil engineer or HVAC contractor that occasionally works in bad areas...
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Old 05-06-2012, 5:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardW56 View Post
I have less trouble with a gynecologist qualifying for a LTC than a civil engineer or HVAC contractor that occasionally works in bad areas...
Huh? Jealous much? What happened to the "everyone should get a CCW"? So, an HVAC worker who enters into a strangers home, with no hope of police support if something happened, shouldn't get a CCW because *YOU* can't get a CCW? Did I miss something?

Seriously, I hope I missed something...

Besides, since you're saying that you can't get a CCW.. Have you even TRIED to apply?
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Old 05-06-2012, 7:12 PM
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Huh? Jealous much? What happened to the "everyone should get a CCW"? So, an HVAC worker who enters into a strangers home, with no hope of police support if something happened, shouldn't get a CCW because *YOU* can't get a CCW? Did I miss something?

Seriously, I hope I missed something...

Besides, since you're saying that you can't get a CCW.. Have you even TRIED to apply?
Let me clarify....

I do not agree with the current system of good cause requirements. That is why I have invested the untold number of hours just redacting good cause statements from all over the state.

Having gone through all of the 930 (±) pages of applications contained in this batch from Orange County, that was one of the few that I saw that may comply with some illusory standard for heightened need, that didn't appear to be either irrelevant or an odd exercise in creative writing.

California should, and hopefully will soon be, shall issue. Good moral character should mean that you are not prohibited due to a criminal history or mental illness. Good cause should be self defense, or simply I want one…

Some people insist on constitutional carry as the ultimate goal, I don’t think we will ever see that in California. Some people object to any training requirement, speaking for myself, I don’t really have an issue with a 8 or 16 hour training requirement. Maybe I am willing to accept some hurdles in the path to a LTC because I live in a no-issue city and I am an average person who isn’t a wealthy, a Hollywood star, or well known business person capable of meeting the sheriff's standards...
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Old 05-06-2012, 7:20 PM
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I feel fortunate to live in a county that has a sheriff that upholds the second amendment. I hope you all get the same treatment soon.
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Old 05-06-2012, 7:21 PM
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I just want to be very clear here: HowardW56, Connor P Price, dantodd, obeygiant, and other have invested countless hours as volunteers in facilitating our Sunshine Initiative because they care enough to do what few like to do - work hard for your rights. No one involved wants anything other than - at minimum - a shall-issue system.

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Old 05-06-2012, 7:34 PM
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I as well would like to see the good cause statements of denied applicants. After reading a through some of the approved good cause statements it doesn't seem like they are necessarily requiring extreme circumstances, which makes me wonder how much the approval was based on "who" rather than "why."
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Old 05-06-2012, 7:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardW56 View Post
I do not agree with the current system of good cause requirements. That is why I have invested the untold number of hours just redacting good cause statements from all over the state.
[...]
California should, and hopefully will soon be, shall issue. Good moral character should mean that you are not prohibited due to a criminal history or mental illness. Good cause should be self defense, or simply I want one…
I agree with you. I think everyone who wants one should get one. But, I too agree that a few hoops isn't a bad thing. Hoops mean people need to educate themselves a bit. Hoops don't mean barriers, just hoops.

File an application, take some training (I think this is a good thing IMHO), prove you can shoot the darn thing without killing someone else. Besides, taking training and showing you are proficient will HELP YOU if you ever have to shoot. In court, you can say how many hours of training you have vs. "Yeah, I watched youtube".

Frankly, even if I lived in Arizona, I would still get an actual LTC. Constitutional carry is nice, but, the actual license and the 'stamp of approval' on it, means that I have an extra layer of personal protection against left-leaning cops, and left-leaning citizens. "No, it's ok that I'm carrying.. Here's a piece of paper that proves it!"

I'm sure all the lawyers will attack me again based on what I just wrote, but so be it. (Also, still waiting for wildhawker to call me back....)
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Old 05-06-2012, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerplow View Post
I as well would like to see the good cause statements of denied applicants. After reading a through some of the approved good cause statements it doesn't seem like they are necessarily requiring extreme circumstances, which makes me wonder how much the approval was based on "who" rather than "why."
+1. I wonder how many people who applied with even remotely reasonable GC's (i.e. you didn't write something crazy on the app) got denied? Are GC's in OC just an exercise to show you took the time to read up on what OC considers to be a reasonable GC?
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Old 05-06-2012, 7:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDavid View Post
(Also, still waiting for wildhawker to call me back....)
I'll be calling tonight.

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Old 05-06-2012, 8:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDavid View Post
+1. I wonder how many people who applied with even remotely reasonable GC's (i.e. you didn't write something crazy on the app) got denied? Are GC's in OC just an exercise to show you took the time to read up on what OC considers to be a reasonable GC?
Not likely.

OC had 2,273,573 adult residents last year, and 551 civilian LTC were issued.

Since in other states, when LTC gets moved to shall-issue, the demand for CCW licenses stabilizes between 3% and 4%, it's reasonable to guess the demand is OC is about the same.

3% of the adult population of OC is about 68,000 - kind of different from 551.

Something besides good cause statements is at work here.
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Old 05-06-2012, 9:10 PM
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The denied good cause statements are available here
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Old 05-06-2012, 9:11 PM
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This.

The math isn't hard, nor is the data all that difficult to find. The below and this blog post pretty well indicates the state of affairs.

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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Not likely.

OC had 2,273,573 adult residents last year, and 551 civilian LTC were issued.

Since in other states, when LTC gets moved to shall-issue, the demand for CCW licenses stabilizes between 3% and 4%, it's reasonable to guess the demand is OC is about the same.

3% of the adult population of OC is about 68,000 - kind of different from 551.

Something besides good cause statements is at work here.
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